2022-23 RealGM All-Season Awards - Discussion Thread

[AEnigma]

Likewise, Bruce Brown improperly fell off my Sixth Man radar. Definitely another ballot with four contenders then, and I recognise he has been better in the playoffs than Brogdon and Quickley.

[OhayoKD]

As an addendum to that last paragraph:

Jimmy Butler averages against Jayson Tatum in the postseason: 23.3/6.9/4.9/0.6/2.1 with 1.7 turnovers on 54.4% efficiency
Jayson Tatum averages against Jimmy Butler in the postseason: 25.6/9.4/5.8/0.9/1.2 with 4 turnovers on 58.6% efficiency

And for Doc’s sake: Butler is +1, and Tatum is +65.

Now, Tatum has also averaged more minutes, so we can restrict it a bit further to see what they produce when on the court with each other:
Butler = 23.5 points per 75 possessions on 55% efficiency, 110 Ortg
Tatum= 23.3 points per 75 on 58% efficiency, 114 Ortg

Again, I am not saying people should vote for Tatum over Butler. I just think it is worth asking whether people are being consistent with how they make their assessments. For my part, Tatum versus Butler continues to be a question, as it was last year, but if nothing else I do value that Butler has the best series and the more impressive postseason accomplishments, and that he seems to be a better team leader.

Don't those numbers look better for Butler if you adjust for defensive comp? In terms of box-playmaking this series Butler had a pretty substantial advantage: 19.7 ast%:4(!)tov% vs 26ast%:18.8.

Butler also scored at the same clip with a 3-point ts disadvantage facing a better defense. Plausible Tatum is facing more defensive pressure, but at surface level, I'd take Butler's numbers over Tatum's from this ECF

[AEnigma]

As an addendum to that last paragraph:

Jimmy Butler averages against Jayson Tatum in the postseason: 23.3/6.9/4.9/0.6/2.1 with 1.7 turnovers on 54.4% efficiency
Jayson Tatum averages against Jimmy Butler in the postseason: 25.6/9.4/5.8/0.9/1.2 with 4 turnovers on 58.6% efficiency

And for Doc’s sake: Butler is +1, and Tatum is +65.

Now, Tatum has also averaged more minutes, so we can restrict it a bit further to see what they produce when on the court with each other:
Butler = 23.5 points per 75 possessions on 55% efficiency, 110 Ortg
Tatum= 23.3 points per 75 on 58% efficiency, 114 Ortg

Again, I am not saying people should vote for Tatum over Butler. I just think it is worth asking whether people are being consistent with how they make their assessments. For my part, Tatum versus Butler continues to be a question, as it was last year, but if nothing else I do value that Butler has the best series and the more impressive postseason accomplishments, and that he seems to be a better team leader.

Don't those numbers look better for Butler if you adjust for defensive comp? In terms of box-playmaking this series Butler had a pretty substantial advantage: 19.7 ast%:4(!)tov% vs 26ast%:18.8.

Butler also scored at the same clip with a 3-point ts disadvantage facing a better defense. Plausible Tatum is facing more defensive pressure, but at surface level, I'd take Butler's numbers over Tatum's from this ECF

I think Tatum deserves credit for playing more, but I agree that the turnovers significantly even out the efficiency gap (or at least when both are on the court). Trex is the guy who usually plays around more with cTOV% and turnover-adjusted scoring efficiency, so you could ask him how those numbers translate.

[eminence]

Hadn't really thought about it any until today, but if the Heat get it done and Bam in particular seems to carry, would folks be considering him for the #5 slot?

[mikejames23]

Strangely, I have always loved the idea of signing veterans like Kyle Lowry and Kevin Love. The Heat start looking a lot more like a title winner with these two on the floor.

[AEnigma]

Hadn't really thought about it any until today, but if the Heat get it done and Bam in particular seems to carry, would folks be considering him for the #5 slot?

I think the people strongly considering Davis off the back of two series and a strong playoff on/off probably should.

That said, independent of what I still see as an unlikely Heat title hypothetical, if Bam continues to anchor a defence that challenges the Nuggets to a degree not true of any other team thus far, he could come in as a sudden dark horse for Defensive Player of the Year ballots. I did not have him as too serious a regular season contender, but a large part of my reticence with preemptively awarding Brook off regular season results was because of the modern reality that players like Bam maintain their defensive value in the postseason better than players like Brook.

[Ambrose]

Hadn't really thought about it any until today, but if the Heat get it done and Bam in particular seems to carry, would folks be considering him for the #5 slot?

No

[The-Power]

There's a close to zero chance that I'd consider Bam for the ballot. I think that's a really tough argument to make beyond wanting to add more players from the winning team just because. I also don't think the AD comparison holds much water. AD played at a different level compared to Bam.

[Doctor MJ]

Hadn't really thought about it any until today, but if the Heat get it done and Bam in particular seems to carry, would folks be considering him for the #5 slot?

My mind is open, but he hasn't been on my radar.

[iggymcfrack]

Hadn't really thought about it any until today, but if the Heat get it done and Bam in particular seems to carry, would folks be considering him for the #5 slot?

LOL, no. He wouldn’t even be in my top 25 right now. If anyone should be getting a dark horse Top 5 push for a crazy postseason, it’s Murray. I still wouldn’t really consider him for top 5, but top 10 might not be out of the question.

[iggymcfrack]

Unless Jimmy does something huge the rest of the way, I think I’m looking at:

1. Jokic
2. Embiid
3. Jimmy
4. Tatum
5. AD

Jimmy just hasn’t been good enough in the postseason to make up the regular season difference. He was incredible against the Bucks, but the last 3 rounds have really not even been much better than Embiid’s playoffs. He’d need at least 2 more real big games for me to consider him at #2 which obviously would mean a win in Denver in Game 5.


For coach of the year, I’m almost positive I’m going:

1. Spo
2. Malone
3. Brown

Usually I try not to give too much credit to a coach for just winning the chip and I had some questions about Malone on the regular season, but he honestly hasn’t put a foot wrong in the playoffs. The rotations have been amazing, he’s called out the team whenever the effort started to slip, he’s kept players’ confidence up when they have cold stretches, he’s made the right strategic adjustments when necessary. I’ve watched the Nuggets very closely and I honestly haven’t had a single real complaint.

[Doctor MJ]

So, I don't think people actually PM'ed me about wanting to vote, so I'm going based on participation in this thread for now.

The following users I'm going to invite to vote - and I'm going to actually add you to the voter list, but please do let know if you're not interested.

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If your name is not on the list and you want to vote, please do PM me. I will say, because I have chosen the people most active on this thread, you're much more likely to get added to the list now if you have a prior track record of voting in these projects in the past.

[Doctor MJ]

For coach of the year, I’m almost positive I’m going:

1. Spo
2. Malone
3. Brown

Usually I try not to give too much credit to a coach for just winning the chip and I had some questions about Malone on the regular season, but he honestly hasn’t put a foot wrong in the playoffs. The rotations have been amazing, he’s called out the team whenever the effort started to slip, he’s kept players’ confidence up when they have cold stretches, he’s made the right strategic adjustments when necessary. I’ve watched the Nuggets very closely and I honestly haven’t had a single real complaint.

This is actually exactly where my head is at.

I don't want to just give the nod to the coach winning the championship, but I've found Malone's performance in the playoffs to be real proof of what a great all around coach he is, and I'm even considering him for the top spot...though it's hard for me to see not putting Spo on top.

Feel for Brown, who to me remains super-deserving of COY praise, but no matter what you do in the RS, coaches who really stand out with playoff stress - player management, adjustments, etc - are passing the ultimate test, and you just don't get a chance to do this when you only play one round.

[Colbinii]

For coach of the year, I’m almost positive I’m going:

1. Spo
2. Malone
3. Brown

Usually I try not to give too much credit to a coach for just winning the chip and I had some questions about Malone on the regular season, but he honestly hasn’t put a foot wrong in the playoffs. The rotations have been amazing, he’s called out the team whenever the effort started to slip, he’s kept players’ confidence up when they have cold stretches, he’s made the right strategic adjustments when necessary. I’ve watched the Nuggets very closely and I honestly haven’t had a single real complaint.

This is actually exactly where my head is at.

I don't want to just give the nod to the coach winning the championship, but I've found Malone's performance in the playoffs to be real proof of what a great all around coach he is, and I'm even considering him for the top spot...though it's hard for me to see not putting Spo on top.

Feel for Brown, who to me remains super-deserving of COY praise, but no matter what you do in the RS, coaches who really stand out with playoff stress - player management, adjustments, etc - are passing the ultimate test, and you just don't get a chance to do this when you only play one round.

FWIW, I thought Brown was good in round 1 against GSW.

The only other candidate I am considering is Ham.

[rk2023]

Reinforcing my intention to participate, thank you Doc.

[eminence]

I'll come back to it, but my only real decision left was Butler vs Tatum for #2, and I'm feeling Tatum in the moments shortly after the Finals. Jokic an obvious #1, Embiid my clear #4. Leaning Curry over Davis/LeBron for #5.

[Colbinii]

I'll come back to it, but my only real decision left was Butler vs Tatum for #2, and I'm feeling Tatum in the moments shortly after the Finals. Jokic an obvious #1, Embiid my clear #4. Leaning Curry over Davis/LeBron for #5.

Also leaning Curry at #5 [maybe #4].

[AEnigma]

Why? Lebron was better in the regular season and arguably in the playoffs even with a foot injury.

What especially gets me is how people can do that while simultaneously locking Butler into their top three. Yeah, Butler has the Bucks series, that is why he is a lock for me too, but over the course of the entire postseason, it is not like he was any better or more productive on average…

Yet again, feels like a case of Lebron being negatively compared to his usual standards rather than being assessed neutrally.

[GSP]

Last unanimous Poy was Bron in 12 and 13 (91/92 Mj and 00/01 Shaq before him)......................should be Jokic a decade later. Any other vote for no.1 should result in a ban

[MyUniBroDavis]

Jimmy fell off a cliff all things considered ngl, only really dominated the first round