Doctor MJ wrote:Guys, I'm seeing "official ballots" here after I pointedly said this was NOT a voting thread. I'm not planning to even look at this thread when I tally the vote.
Whoops, sorry. I've gotten so used to your blurb to start these threads off that I just skim to the bottom to see what you think the highlights of the year are. Like an FBI warning or something. My bad.
semi-sentient wrote:We would be saying that Kobe failed as a leader and didn't go down swinging? There is a big difference between having an off night and simply not showing up or playing far below your abilities.
What
is the difference between those two things? Cause they seem pretty much the same to me. I mean, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume LeBron didn't simply give up in game where a win gives him the series lead, so what is the difference between the remaining two options?
And stop ignoring intangibles. Just because they can't be properly quantified doesn't mean they don't exist.
Intangibles
do exist, but by and large they can seen to effect production. Very poor intangibles make Eddy Curry a horrible basketball player. Poor intangibles made Derrick Coleman a much lesser basketball player than he could've been. Good intangibles make Derek Fisher play better than you'd expect. Good intangibles make Steve Nash a Hall of Famer. But these things
effect their play and their quantifiable production, not completely exclusive to it. And when people wander farther and farther down the intangibles road, all it turns into is a highly subjective and heavily biased assessment. The player that I like has heart and will to win. The player that I don't doesn't and only cares about himself. It's just silly. Wade played better than LeBron in the playoffs but neither had the team to advance. Kobe played worse than either of them- although still clearly a superstar- but had a team that had no problem compensating. If LeBron or Wade played in the first round as Kobe did in the first round, the Cavs wouldn't have gotten past the Bulls and the Heat would've gotten swept embarrassingly. But somehow that doesn't matter; something about intangibles.
Sedale Threatt wrote:Gongxi wrote:I'm not doing this project based upon what Joe Schmoe thinks about someone's legacy, otherwise Rondo would have a decent chance of cracking the top 5.
The standard thing was just an example of how important one game can be. As for the rest, yay. I don't care what your approach is for this project.
And I'm saying that its fallacious.
That's fine. If you just want to compare what they did against the Celtics, Wade has an argument for being better but Kobe does not. Was Wade's regular season good enough to eclipse LeBron? Again, I don't know why we're looking at Game 5 and not looking at Game 4 the previous series. Can anyone tell me? It was a huge game.
Come on. You're comparing a Game 4 between a 1 and 8 seed, in a series the Cavs were already leading, as compared to a pivotal Game 5 in a tie series that ended up crippling Cleveland's season. They aren't even remotely comparable. Especially when you add it all up with Games 2, 4 and 6.
I'm obviously comparing them. Game 4 in the first round was important. But...it's not being mentioned. You don't think it's important to mention it, and instead only mention important bad games? Why?
As for the rest, I agree. I've tried to come at it from a couple of other different angles, and I'm not coming up with a satisfying argument for anybody else.
That's good.
And yet aside from four games of Wade, that's how the other players given consideration here played against the Celtics, too. Again, do Wade's four games trump the rest of the year?
Again, I don't know. I doubt it. I'm not coming up with a better argument for anyone else. But to gloss over LeBron's performance against Boston, especially by condensing it down to "one game," makes no sense.
Why? Because his team lost? So Kobe's poor first round can be glossed over because his team won? What sense does that make, we're comparing the players, not the teams.
And yet if Ron Artest doesn't show up in Game 7, we'd say the same thing about Kobe. But, somehow because a third party played well, we don't. Arbitrary to the extreme. So it really all comes down to Wade. And I'm not buying it.
You can buy whatever you like. I'm still probably going to end up voting for LeBron, so it's probably a moot point.
But I keep coming back to the same thing -- it wasn't just one game. It was a highly flawed performance that was probably the deciding factor in the ending of a potential championship season.
Instead of drive-by posting, why don't you share YOUR opinion about that particular series, independent of any voting or ranking. What do you think happened? What was your impression?
Especially about the collective "WTF?!?" he got for his attitude and glaring lack of effort?
I think he had rough stretches. I don't understand the "drive-by posting" comment: you can talk about the price of oil without getting into drilling procedures. You can talk about US-China economic strain without bringing the topic around to specific Duracell factory policies. My impression is based upon the macro look at the whole season, not what just happened in the last two months, as if that encapsulates the whole season, and not by simply looking at whose team advanced or won.
to dipsute LBJ.But guess what....He is still young and he has already 2 MVPs.
