Dr J & Pau Gasol OR Kobe & Amare?

[chefy]

As someone who has personaly watched WNBA players consistantly blow by Amare and beat him in games of 1on1 Im not sure I would take him if you gave me Kobe and MJ. Theres no doubt Kobe would be demanding Amare be traded or demanding a trade after 2 games. Nobody wants to play with him. Did you guys know that Amare offered to take less to play in Miami but Riley wanted no part of him?

DrJ vs Kobe

DrJ didnt guard PGs he was guarding SFs and PFs. IMHO def becomes more valuable as you get closer to the basket so being 1st team all def at guard is not as important as being 2nd team at forward or 3rd team at C.

Todays game is much more about playing 20ft from the basket so Kobe defense could be of more value. However since DrJ can do what maybe no player today can do and thats post up and play with his back to the basket he provides a skill that is in demand. DrJs physical skills along with rule changes would allow him to do things todays players cant do.

Another interesting fact is that DrJ is a better 3pt shooter for much of his career and there career TS% is almost the same.

The leadership factor for me is so much more important and a player like Gasol would love to play with DrJ while the Kobe/amare duo would hate each other.

In conclusion I like the DrJ/Gasol duo because they both are very good players both at offense and defense. They also can play differant styles and are both very good passers. I would much rather coach this duo, If I was an owner I would rather have this duo represent me and if I was a player I would love to play with Gasol and DrJ who share the basketball and are leaders. Many a ABA player has said that when they had a bad game they would get a call from DrJ who encouraged them and helped them become a better player and person and DrJ wasnt even on there team.

That is just wrong.

[DR1983]

seriously why argue with people who are obvious haters with an agenda? you got one guy lying about all kobe's teams he won with were stacked,when infact they were no more stacked than anyother championship team. then you have another poster lying about kobe never played great defense he just got by on reputation,but how can you have a reputation for something you never did? they make no sense and talk in circles. they are running out of ammo. everything kobe has accomplished is tainted,he was just lucky with stacked teams

Anybody not named Vanessa Bryant, Kobe fanboys and Katelyn Faber knows Kobe is not a great defender. He can be at times. He's good about 50% of the time. He doesn't and never has had any above average physical gifts. His lateral quickness is/was so/so. Doesn't have a freakishly long wing-span or big hands. Has never been elite from an athletic standpoint. And bigger players, think younger Bonzi Wells, were always able to abuse him in the post. Let me ask you this: out of Wade, Rose, Kobe, which one SHOULD NOT make the all-defensive team? If you say anybody other than Kobe you need to banish yourself to a third world country for eternity.

[chefy]

seriously why argue with people who are obvious haters with an agenda? you got one guy lying about all kobe's teams he won with were stacked,when infact they were no more stacked than anyother championship team. then you have another poster lying about kobe never played great defense he just got by on reputation,but how can you have a reputation for something you never did? they make no sense and talk in circles. they are running out of ammo. everything kobe has accomplished is tainted,he was just lucky with stacked teams

Anybody not named Vanessa Bryant, Kobe fanboys and Katelyn Faber knows Kobe is not a great defender. He can be at times. He's good about 50% of the time. He doesn't and never has had any above average physical gifts. His lateral quickness is/was so/so. Doesn't have a freakishly long wing-span or big hands. Has never been elite from an athletic standpoint. And bigger players, think younger Bonzi Wells, were always able to abuse him in the post. Let me ask you this: out of Wade, Rose, Kobe, which one SHOULD NOT make the all-defensive team? If you say anybody other than Kobe you need to banish yourself to a third world country for eternity.

wow

[Father Time]

seriously why argue with people who are obvious haters with an agenda? you got one guy lying about all kobe's teams he won with were stacked,when infact they were no more stacked than anyother championship team. then you have another poster lying about kobe never played great defense he just got by on reputation,but how can you have a reputation for something you never did? they make no sense and talk in circles. they are running out of ammo. everything kobe has accomplished is tainted,he was just lucky with stacked teams

Anybody not named Vanessa Bryant, Kobe fanboys and Katelyn Faber knows Kobe is not a great defender. He can be at times. He's good about 50% of the time. He doesn't and never has had any above average physical gifts. His lateral quickness is/was so/so. Doesn't have a freakishly long wing-span or big hands. Has never been elite from an athletic standpoint. And bigger players, think younger Bonzi Wells, were always able to abuse him in the post. Let me ask you this: out of Wade, Rose, Kobe, which one SHOULD NOT make the all-defensive team? If you say anybody other than Kobe you need to banish yourself to a third world country for eternity.

Bahaha, yeah Kobe in his FIFTEENTH season shouldn't make it over those guys. A 22 year old Kobe should make it over both of them. And seriously, where did Kobe's reputation come from?? Believe it or not, for a period of time he was a damn good defender. He's not anymore, but people remember those years where he played elite defense, which is when he got this reputation you keep bringing up.

He's never been elite from an athletic standpoint?? Compared to who? Obviously he can't compare to athletic freaks like Wilt or LeBron, but they are two of the most athletic to ever play. In his young days Kobe was as athletic as any other star wing in the league. And you're wrong, he was actually very good laterally and had great quickness. I'm not talking about the last 3-4 years, I'm talking about 2001/2002/2003 when he played great defense.

[DR1983]

seriously why argue with people who are obvious haters with an agenda? you got one guy lying about all kobe's teams he won with were stacked,when infact they were no more stacked than anyother championship team. then you have another poster lying about kobe never played great defense he just got by on reputation,but how can you have a reputation for something you never did? they make no sense and talk in circles. they are running out of ammo. everything kobe has accomplished is tainted,he was just lucky with stacked teams

Anybody not named Vanessa Bryant, Kobe fanboys and Katelyn Faber knows Kobe is not a great defender. He can be at times. He's good about 50% of the time. He doesn't and never has had any above average physical gifts. His lateral quickness is/was so/so. Doesn't have a freakishly long wing-span or big hands. Has never been elite from an athletic standpoint. And bigger players, think younger Bonzi Wells, were always able to abuse him in the post. Let me ask you this: out of Wade, Rose, Kobe, which one SHOULD NOT make the all-defensive team? If you say anybody other than Kobe you need to banish yourself to a third world country for eternity.

Bahaha, yeah Kobe in his FIFTEENTH season shouldn't make it over those guys. A 22 year old Kobe should make it over both of them. And seriously, where did Kobe's reputation come from?? Believe it or not, for a period of time he was a damn good defender. He's not anymore, but people remember those years where he played elite defense, which is when he got this reputation you keep bringing up.

That's my point. Kobe will probably still make the all-defensive team even though he's not even a good defender, let alone great defender, anymore. The Derek Jeter of the NBA. Kobe was good from '01 through '03. But never great. He was the tallest midget among no defense playing 2's like She-mac, Pierce, Stackhouse, ect.

He's never been elite from an athletic standpoint?? Compared to who? Obviously he can't compare to athletic freaks like Wilt or LeBron, but they are two of the most athletic to ever play. In his young days Kobe was as athletic as any other star wing in the league. And you're wrong, he was actually very good laterally and had great quickness. I'm not talking about the last 3-4 years, I'm talking about 2001/2002/2003 when he played great defense.

You're beyond a loon if you think from a pure physical/athletic standpoint that Kobe was on par with She-mac and Vince. Not even close. Skill-wise? Yeah, I'll give Kobe that. He has to train/condition or whatever the hell it is he does for 8, 10, 12 hours a day that we keep hearing about every 36 minutes because he's never had the raw physical gifts to fall back on.

[LakerLegend]

However since DrJ can do what maybe no player today can do and thats post up and play with his back to the basket he provides a skill that is in demand. DrJs physical skills along with rule changes would allow him to do things todays players cant do.

Another interesting fact is that DrJ is a better 3pt shooter for much of his career and there career TS% is almost the same.

You're beyond a loon if you think from a pure physical/athletic standpoint that Kobe was on par with She-mac and Vince. Not even close. Skill-wise? Yeah, I'll give Kobe that. He has to train/condition or whatever the hell it is he does for 8, 10, 12 hours a day that we keep hearing about every 36 minutes because he's never had the raw physical gifts to fall back on

The stupidity in this thread is overwhelming....Dr J a better three point shooter? An amazing back to the basket game? Kobe was a prodigy from the age of 16 and a lot of that had to do with his athletic gifts.

I might as well say Kobe can do Jordan's moves in Space Jam because it would as true as some of the garbage you people are spewing .

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGxX80NHuRs[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn_CH9kPEMQ[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPaQ_PS3jA8[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrB6JjQbQko[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55ngZg3BGvU[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOX-z1z83AM[/youtube]

[DR1983]

Kobe fans: when in doubt, post YT videos.

You proven exactly nothing. Vince's '00 dunk contest performance automatically eliminates Kobe in a head-2head comparison. She-mac was longer, bigger and more athletic than Kobe. C'mon. How is this even up for discussion?

[LakerLegend]

Yes, when in doubt Kobe fans put factual information like footage pertaining to the matter at hand, instead of spewing whatever tickles their fancy as you are doing. Show me Dr. blocks displaying more athletic ability than that. As for Vince and "She-Mac"(very mature) Kobe has always been quicker, more agile, better coordinated than either of them, and Vince was getting outjumped by Francis in the 00 dunk contest.

[DR1983]

Yes, when in doubt Kobe fans put factual information like footage pertaining to the matter at hand, instead of spewing whatever tickles their fancy as you are doing. Show me Dr. blocks displaying more athletic ability than that. As for Vince and "She-Mac"(very mature) Kobe has always been quicker, more agile, better coordinated than either of them, and Vince was getting outjumped by Francis in the 00 dunk contest.

Kobe wasn't even more athletic than young Jerry Stackhouse. Skilled? Yeah, Kobe's got skills. I give him that. But his athleticism was always ordinary. And it's hilarious watching him now when his jumper isn't falling.

[LakerLegend]

Kobe wasn't even more athletic than young Jerry Stackhouse.

Why dont you go make a thread with that topic/poll and get laughed off the board.

Go ahead, do it.

[NYK 455]

And this is why I get a "Kobe Hater" rep, cause I get tempted by crazy Kobe fanboys. Prime Kobe way better than D.J? Really? Good enough to make up for the black hole in interior D and rebounding Amar'e will provide? Ok.

[DR1983]

Kobe wasn't even more athletic than young Jerry Stackhouse.

Why dont you go make a thread with that topic/poll and get laughed off the board.

Go ahead, do it.

I don't create Kobe-centric threads. Never have. never will. I respond to the ones that I think are ludicrous. Which are pretty much all of them. I love Kobe. But I have to be fair. He's one of the top 25 players of all-time. But he doesn't sniff the 10 or compare with other great players' peaks.

[youngcrev]

The gap between Kobe and Dr J is MUCH bigger than any gap between Amare and Gasol either way. So Kobe and Amare.

Yes, Kobe is MUCH better than the Dr. ever was. There's literally nothing any version of Doc does as good as Kobe, let alone better save maybe rebounding and even then thats more a product of the positions they play. The difference in skill is as wide as the grand canyon, and I'm someone who thinks the Dr. is underrated these days.

+1

I don't agree with everything you've been saying, but Kobe fans will take some ridiculous stances.

Kobe would be much more appreciated around here if it wasn't for the nonsense that comes out of their mouths. It's like they are trying to turn me into a Kobe-hater.

[LakerLegend]

Kobe wasn't even more athletic than young Jerry Stackhouse.

Why dont you go make a thread with that topic/poll and get laughed off the board.

Go ahead, do it.

I don't create Kobe-centric threads. Never have. never will. I respond to the ones that I think are ludicrous. Which are pretty much all of them. I love Kobe. But I have to be fair. He's one of the top 25 players of all-time. But he doesn't sniff the 10 or compare with other great players' peaks.

You have displayed no analytical abilities, no critical thinking skills, or facts to backup your claims. So whatever you say is...pretty much meaningless.

You guys haven't presented any ARGUMENTS for why Doc is close to Kobe. He's not. Anyone who watched him play will say as much. It's not disrespect to Doc...its just the facts.

[DR1983]

Kobe wasn't even more athletic than young Jerry Stackhouse.

Why dont you go make a thread with that topic/poll and get laughed off the board.

Go ahead, do it.

I don't create Kobe-centric threads. Never have. never will. I respond to the ones that I think are ludicrous. Which are pretty much all of them. I love Kobe. But I have to be fair. He's one of the top 25 players of all-time. But he doesn't sniff the 10 or compare with other great players' peaks.

You have displayed no analytical abilities, no critical thinking skills, or facts to backup your claims. So whatever you say is...pretty much meaningless.

You guys haven't presented any ARGUMENTS for why Doc is close to Kobe. He's not. Anyone who watched him play will say as much. It's not disrespect to Doc...its just the facts.

lol. What? What the hell have you provided other than a YT vid and passing off Damon Stoudamire as a HOF? I've already stated that Kobe was a better shooter and playmaker. A better overall scorer. Doc has him beat everywhere else. It's close either way. You're the one acting like it's no comparison.

[Bruh Man]

Yes, when in doubt Kobe fans put factual information like footage pertaining to the matter at hand, instead of spewing whatever tickles their fancy as you are doing. Show me Dr. blocks displaying more athletic ability than that. As for Vince and "She-Mac"(very mature) Kobe has always been quicker, more agile, better coordinated than either of them, and Vince was getting outjumped by Francis in the 00 dunk contest.

Kobe wasn't even more athletic than young Jerry Stackhouse. Skilled? Yeah, Kobe's got skills. I give him that. But his athleticism was always ordinary. And it's hilarious watching him now when his jumper isn't falling.

Kobe wasn't even more athletic than young Jerry Stackhouse.

Why dont you go make a thread with that topic/poll and get laughed off the board.

Go ahead, do it.

I don't create Kobe-centric threads. Never have. never will. I respond to the ones that I think are ludicrous. Which are pretty much all of them. I love Kobe. But I have to be fair. He's one of the top 25 players of all-time. But he doesn't sniff the 10 or compare with other great players' peaks.

[Father Time]

Did that dude say he loves Kobe. LOL That's what all of the haters do, so they can say "look, this is coming from a HUGE Kobe fan, but..."

[singlepurposeac]

There are some ridiculous comments coming out that I will not be associated with, obvious Kobe used to play excellent D (how consistently is another matter), and obviously he was far more athletic than Jerry Brickhouse ever was. None of which helps him v.s Dr J.

Yes, Kobe often played teams who were stacked, but that doesn't make his finals teams unstacked. I can certainly say Dr J didn't have a stacked team in 1974 and especially 1976.

[magic1fan]

yeah that is the haters favorite line. kind of like the racist guy who talks trash and says but but but i can't be rascists some of my best friends are just like you.

[ChuckTheD]

This thread is an absolute joke. Both sides are just making themselves look silly at this point, I'm gonna repost my original post and hope it might spark some real discussion instead of whatever is going on right now.


Dr. J was a great, great player. Very underrated due to those Finals losses (and spending the first chunk of his career in a league that wasn't televised regularly.) He was a pioneer of the above the rim game. But he wasn't the basketball player that Kobe Bryant was/is.

Kobe's got the edge in shooting (you ever seen Doc's jumpshot?), passing, defense, killer-instinct, and technical proficiency. Erving's got him in rebounding, athleticism, and showmanship. They're similar at penetration (that's being kind to Julius.)

Dr. J was more important for basketball than Kobe is, but Kobe's better at basketball than Dr. J was. I don't think it's a huge gap, but I bet it'd be pretty clear if we could watch them play.