2011-12 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[Sinant]

but he is still not on the same level as someone like James, even though people want to put him there.

Oh absolutely, I'm of the school of thought that Durant won't ever get to where LeBron got at his peak, but KD has shown me some evolution over the past two years that I didn't expect from him after 2010.

He's a lot more effective outside of scoring than I thought he would be. His teammates improving and having more room to work in has absolutely helped, but he's capitalizing on it in ways I didn't think he'd get to.

[mysticbb]

I don't see how you can rank him ahead of Parker after what Parker did to him.

When we look at the context within a 5on5 game while keeping in mind that more than those 4 games were played this season, I don't see how someone can rank Parker ahead of Paul. Basketball is a team game, and we have to evaluate how much a single player helps his team to win, not how a certain player looks in a specific matchup against another player.

[Black Feet]

I don't see how anyone can have KG in their top 5, unless you are only looking at the playoffs. To each his own I guess.

[mysticbb]

I don't see how anyone can have KG in their top 5, unless you are only looking at the playoffs. To each his own I guess.

How many of Garnett's regular season games did you see?

[lorak]

I don't see how anyone can have KG in their top 5, unless you are only looking at the playoffs. To each his own I guess.

KG was the real DPOTY, definitely top 5 MVP and by far the best Celtics player during the regular season.

[Doctor MJ]

I don't see how anyone can have KG in their top 5, unless you are only looking at the playoffs. To each his own I guess.

I had him in my Top 5 before the playoffs. He was my DPOY pick without hesitation. To be honest, I don't even know if he's moved past anyone in the playoffs for me.

[Black Feet]

I don't see how anyone can have KG in their top 5, unless you are only looking at the playoffs. To each his own I guess.

How many of Garnett's regular season games did you see?

Enough to know he has no case over Lebron, Durant, Kobe, CP3, Dirk

Players who for the most part were playing 37-38 minutes a game while KG averaged 31. He has stepped his game up in the playoffs though.

[mysticbb]

Enough to know he has no case over Lebron, Durant, Kobe, CP3, Dirk

I don't see a post in which Garnett is ahead of James or Durant. Only one person has Garnett over Paul while the explanation is Paul's injury in the playoffs made him less valuable for winning a championship. That leaves Bryant and Nowitzki. Well, I have to admit that I don't see a reasonable argument for Bryant over Garnett. Yeah, Bryant scored a lot of points, but his efficiency wasn't good and defensively Bryant is still the same mess as he was last season. Bryant's overall playing level is not putting him among the best 5 players in the league, and I would most certainly at least pick 5 players including Garnett ahead of Bryant in order to build a championship team around that player in this season. I know that a couple of Bryant fans will cry havoc, but the reality is that Bryant doesn't make a big positive impact anymore.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Enough to know he has no case over Lebron, Durant, Kobe, CP3, Dirk

I don't see a post in which Garnett is ahead of James or Durant. Only one person has Garnett over Paul while the explanation is Paul's injury in the playoffs made him less valuable for winning a championship. That leaves Bryant and Nowitzki. Well, I have to admit that I don't see a reasonable argument for Bryant over Garnett. Yeah, Bryant scored a lot of points, but his efficiency wasn't good and defensively Bryant is still the same mess as he was last season. Bryant's overall playing level is not putting him among the best 5 players in the league, and I would most certainly at least pick 5 players including Garnett ahead of Bryant in order to build a championship team around that player in this season. I know that a couple of Bryant fans will cry havoc, but the reality is that Bryant doesn't make a big positive impact anymore.

Kobe doesn't make a big positive impact anymore??? LOL, only on RealGM

Anyway, someone needs to explain how KG is Top 5, when Rondo has been the Celtic's best player this year, and isn't on people's lists. I mean 16/8 with DPOY level defense is great, but not Top 5 this year. Hell, Duncan was the defensive anchor for the #1 seed Spurs, and dropped 15/9, yet I don't see people putting him in the Top 5 either.

[mysticbb]

Kobe doesn't make a big positive impact anymore??? LOL, only on RealGM :lol:

Well, it is a fact that the difference in playing level with and without Bryant isn't as big as it was. And it is also a fact that Bryant can't compete with the best players in the league in that kind of comparison. Don#t you think that the impact of a player should at least show up somewhere in the results or do you think it doesn't matter how the teams really play? Because that has nothing to do with "only on RealGM", it has much more to do with the reality. You know, the real results, not some fantasy.

Anyway, someone needs to explain how KG is Top 5, when Rondo has been the Celtic's best player this year, and isn't on people's lists. I mean 16/8 with DPOY level defense is great, but not Top 5 this year. Hell, Duncan was the defensive anchor for the #1 seed Spurs, and dropped 15/9, yet I don't see people putting him in the Top 5 either.

First of all, it was multiple times already showed that Rondo is NOT the best player of the Celtics. And you might understand that the player leading his team to be the best defensive team in the league while offensively being even superior gets a bit more praise than the guy anchoring the 11th best defense in the league. Don't you think it is reasonable to argue for Garnett instead of Duncan, if we take a look at the reality?

[Mo26]

Yeah, Kobe's defense is such a mess. The Lakers are only 3 full points better defensively with him on the court. Not to mention very good synergy stats. Not to mention 2nd Team All-Defense. And he averages more APG than any non-PG in the league not named LeBron or Iggy. And he's dropping 28 PPG(and the only reason his TS% is around league-average is because of the Pau/Bynum combo and the Lakers horrible shooting, he has a 56% TS when one of them is off the floor). And he's getting 5.4 RPG, which is phenomenal for a SG. Then he steps his game up in the post-season doing 30/5/5/25 PER/109 ORTG.

Yeah, he does all that and takes his team to the #3 seed. Not making big impact?

lmao.

Easily top 5.

[bastillon]

34-14-5 in a WCF closeout ain't half bad either. He doesn't make that pass to Perkins 2 years ago.

Keep in mind that he also gets different attention from the defense than two years ago. Without Harden on the court Durant has 23 points per 36 minutes on 58 TS% in the playoffs, that is a clear drop in efficiency and scoring volume. With the emerge of Harden the game for Durant changed, he has more freedom and Harden adds a lot to the spacing. Teams seem actually more concerned stopping Harden than Durant or Westbrook when Harden is on the court. Still, Durant has to put the ball into the hope and he is doing it. Add his rebounding, which improved, and he is a better player than two years ago, but he is still not on the same level as someone like James, even though people want to put him there.

I never understood that logic. teams are only concerned about the player with the ball so whoever has it is bound to be the main focus of the offense. the reason why Westbrook and Durant are playing better with Harden in the game is because how he orchestrates team offense. he makes the right play and that also enhances Westbrook's and Durant's performances.

[AnaheimRoyale]

It will be beyond ridiculous if people go from having Lebron as the clear #1, to putting him #2 after Durant because Lebron doesn't win a title (people do get he's been playing PF because Bosh is out right, and that Wade has been not playing like D.Wade by and large?). The POY shouldn't go to the "best guy on the team who won the title" as it sometimes seems to.

[therealbig3]

It will be beyond ridiculous if people go from having Lebron as the clear #1, to putting him #2 after Durant because Lebron doesn't win a title (people do get he's been playing PF because Bosh is out right, and that Wade has been not playing like D.Wade by and large?). The POY shouldn't go to the "best guy on the team who won the title" as it sometimes seems to.

The majority of fans are huge prisoners of the moment.

I thought it was ridiculous that Dirk was POY last year over LeBron.

I'd get it if LeBron was playing terribly in the playoffs and Durant dominated the playoffs...but LeBron has been better than Durant in the playoffs.

[An Unbiased Fan]

It will be beyond ridiculous if people go from having Lebron as the clear #1, to putting him #2 after Durant because Lebron doesn't win a title (people do get he's been playing PF because Bosh is out right, and that Wade has been not playing like D.Wade by and large?). The POY shouldn't go to the "best guy on the team who won the title" as it sometimes seems to.

The majority of fans are huge prisoners of the moment.

I thought it was ridiculous that Dirk was POY last year over LeBron.

I'd get it if LeBron was playing terribly in the playoffs and Durant dominated the playoffs...but LeBron has been better than Durant in the playoffs.

Uh, what? You thought Lebron deserved it over Dirk, despite only winning just 1 more game than Dirk with Wade/Bosh next to him, and Dirk then going on an epic playoff run, while Lebron had an epic Finals choke????

[Doctor MJ]

Holy crap OKC...

They beat the Spurs at full strength more times in a row than anyone had in 50 games(or something like that, 43-4, i think?).

Crazy run they're on.

34-14-5 in a WCF closeout ain't half bad either. He doesn't make that pass to Perkins 2 years ago.

I'm in awe at the moment. I just keep thinking about how young they all are, and how much they seem to like playing together. If that last point holds true and they can keep Harden & Ibaka, we really could be looking at a dynasty north of the Bulls in terms of total championships.

I'll be clear that I'm not ready to predict that yet, but if they can win it this year, and still have room to get better, what reason would we have to expect them not to keep winning?

[Doctor MJ]

It will be beyond ridiculous if people go from having Lebron as the clear #1, to putting him #2 after Durant because Lebron doesn't win a title (people do get he's been playing PF because Bosh is out right, and that Wade has been not playing like D.Wade by and large?). The POY shouldn't go to the "best guy on the team who won the title" as it sometimes seems to.

The majority of fans are huge prisoners of the moment.

I thought it was ridiculous that Dirk was POY last year over LeBron.

I'd get it if LeBron was playing terribly in the playoffs and Durant dominated the playoffs...but LeBron has been better than Durant in the playoffs.

Figured I'd chip in here because I read Anaheim's post and thought "Bravo!", and then read yours and recognized I'm in the group you're criticizing.

For the record, I had my top 5 as this last year:

1. Dirk
2. Dwight
3. Dwyane
4. LeBron
5. Durant

And it's probably useful to know that before the finals I ranked them:

1A. Dirk
1B. LeBron
3. Dwight
4. Wade
5. Rose

So, one can easily knock me for being too high on Dirk, but in terms of dropping LeBron after the finals, Dirk wasn't even a debate for me. I went into the finals expecting to give the nod to whoever played better between Dirk & LeBron, and it was obvious who played better.

Incidentally, Dwight vs LeBron wasn't much of a debate for me after LeBron's series, but LeBron vs Wade was agonizing. Also, Durant moving past Rose over the course of the series had quite a lot to do with talking to other people during that time and letting their opinions influence me - which I don't regret at all.

[ElGee]

Really? it was "obvious" who played better between Dirk and James last year in the Finals?

Based on what? Can you elaborate?

[Narigo]

Wade is basically non-existent. I might take him out of my top five. It depends if hes play better in the second half or nba finals if they get there. Don't know if Lebron will continue playing like he has.

[Doctor MJ]

Really? it was "obvious" who played better between Dirk and James last year in the Finals?

Based on what? Can you elaborate?

Hmm, sounds you've got some pent up thought on this for us. I can't imagine you are in doubt why most people were underwhelmed by LeBron during that series. He took a back seat to Wade, and then seemed quite passive later on when the team really needed him to alpha. I understand the reasons for the former - but it's not exactly something that's going to earn him "MVP points", and when you connect that to an actual failure on his part, it is a real issue.

I understand that Dirk wasn't as impressive in the finals as he had been at some earlier times, but he still looked like a star out there.