The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak

[Not Bias]

The Cavs didn't lose to the Lakers, they lost to a Jameer-less Magic team.

Again how do you expect a team with Mo Williams as you second option to seriously contend?? Face it Lebron was doing everything all by himself. They won 66 all due to his sheer dominance. Lebron didn't have a good enough team capable of winning it all. He put up better RS and PS numbers than Kobe, while leading this garbage team to the ECF. Heck there's a reason why he took his talents to south beach!!

Question....why did the 2009 Cavs have a better record and SRS than any of Lebron's teams...if they sucked so bad?

I mean he's had Wade/Bosh for 3 years now, and still hasn't duplicated that. Even in a weak East, and with a 27 win streak....they still don't have the SRS of that 2009 squad. Strange

You can't give Lebron credit for the 66 wins, and then no blame for the fizzle in the ECF. His defense wasn't there yet, nor was his mental game, or his ability to close in the 4th.

The postseason game is different from the RS, you won't get a steady diet of the garbage teams. I don't care about what the SRS says. When it comes time for the PS, having a guy like Gasol vs Mo WIlliams makes a huge difference!! Lebron played his heart out against the Magic as for him not closing a game, I fondly remember him hitting a buzzer beater to win a game. As for Kobe "closing", I remember a rocket team that had no business being on the same court as the Lakers take them to a game 7. And Gasol won them that game, something Mo Williams can't do.

[Illhavethelary]

The Cavs didn't lose to the Lakers, they lost to a Jameer-less Magic team.

Again how do you expect a team with Mo Williams as you second option to seriously contend?? Face it Lebron was doing everything all by himself. They won 66 all due to his sheer dominance. Lebron didn't have a good enough team capable of winning it all. He put up better RS and PS numbers than Kobe, while leading this garbage team to the ECF. Heck there's a reason why he took his talents to south beach!!

Question....why did the 2009 Cavs have a better record and SRS than any of Lebron's teams...if they sucked so bad?

I mean he's had Wade/Bosh for 3 years now, and still hasn't duplicated that. Even in a weak East, and with a 27 win streak....they still don't have the SRS of that 2009 squad. Strange

You can't give Lebron credit for the 66 wins, and then no blame for the fizzle in the ECF. His defense wasn't there yet, nor was his mental game, or his ability to close in the 4th.

If you actually think this Heat team cared about anything in the regular reason until that winning streak. That Cavs team was a deep group that gave 100% every night but had no other great players besides LeBron which is what we all know is important in the postseason when the rotations get shorter and the minutes go to your best players. The fact is LeBron not only produced at his regular season level, he exceeded it. It wasn't him who faltered but his teammates. Also you keep saying LeBron had no ability in the 4th, yet he out produced Kobe in crunchtime against Orlando. I really don't know how anyone can argue Kobe was better than Bron in 09. Then again it doesn't really matter because you're the only person in here saying it

[An Unbiased Fan]

His ability to close in the 4th... We are talking about the series where he won a game at the buzzer with a three, sent another to OT with two clutch Ft's with under a second left, had another game where he scored or assisted on like 30 points in a row late, and was generally terrific at basically every stage of just about all those games

In a losing effort, its a better series than Kobe has ever had

That wasn't even the best series that season, lol. Kobe in WCF > Lebron in ECF

And no, Lebron failed short in closing during that series. He had the buzzer beater, but really, it should have never even come down to that shot. Defensively he was Casper in the 4th, and didn't do much leading at all out there.

What Lebron did in 2012, showed how much his game had matured. People are way too impressed by box score numbers.

[Not Bias]

His ability to close in the 4th... We are talking about the series where he won a game at the buzzer with a three, sent another to OT with two clutch Ft's with under a second left, had another game where he scored or assisted on like 30 points in a row late, and was generally terrific at basically every stage of just about all those games

In a losing effort, its a better series than Kobe has ever had

That wasn't even the best series that season, lol. Kobe in WCF > Lebron in ECF

And no, Lebron failed short in closing during that series. He had the buzzer beater, but really, it should have never even come down to that shot. Defensively he was Casper in the 4th, and didn't do much leading at all out there.

What Lebron did in 2012, showed how much his game had matured. People are way too impressed by box score numbers.

No actually we're just impressed how Lebron could lead a bunch of homeless people to 66 wins and the ECF.

[JulesWinnfield]

Kobes 09 WCF was absolutely not better than LeBron's ECF that year. Of course he won, but this isn't tennis. It also helps that Denvers top 3 scorers shot a combined 39%.

[therealbig3]

Kobes 09 WCF was absolutely not better than LeBron's ECF that year. Of course he won, but this isn't tennis. It also helps that Denvers top 3 scorers shot a combined 39%.

Kobe's defense

[Not Bias]

Kobes 09 WCF was absolutely not better than LeBron's ECF that year. Of course he won, but this isn't tennis. It also helps that Denvers top 3 scorers shot a combined 39%.

Kobe's defense

No it was actually Denver's altitude

[RayBan-Sematra]

Gasol was really good in the 09 WCF.

He put up 18 / 12 / 4apg / 2.5bpg on 68%TS!

[An Unbiased Fan]

Question....why did the 2009 Cavs have a better record and SRS than any of Lebron's teams...if they sucked so bad?

I mean he's had Wade/Bosh for 3 years now, and still hasn't duplicated that. Even in a weak East, and with a 27 win streak....they still don't have the SRS of that 2009 squad. Strange

You can't give Lebron credit for the 66 wins, and then no blame for the fizzle in the ECF. His defense wasn't there yet, nor was his mental game, or his ability to close in the 4th.

The postseason game is different from the RS, you won't get a steady diet of the garbage teams. I don't care about what the SRS says. When it comes time for the PS, having a guy like Gasol vs Mo WIlliams makes a huge difference!! Lebron played his heart out against the Magic as for him not closing a game, I fondly remember him hitting a buzzer beater to win a game. As for Kobe "closing", I remember a rocket team that had no business being on the same court as the Lakers take them to a game 7. And Gasol won them that game, something Mo Williams can't do.

LOL, the Lakers blew the Rockets out in game 7, the whole team was coasting.

And at least you admit that the playoffs are a different animal from the RS. So yeh, Kobe performing better in the PS is more significant than Lebron getting a "steady diet of the garbage teams" as you point out.

Kobe was the best player in the 2009 playoffs.

[JulesWinnfield]

Kobes 09 WCF was absolutely not better than LeBron's ECF that year. Of course he won, but this isn't tennis. It also helps that Denvers top 3 scorers shot a combined 39%.

Kobe's defense

That's far from all Kobe. It was fun watching he and Melo guard eachother for stretches though.

[An Unbiased Fan]

If you actually think this Heat team cared about anything in the regular reason until that winning streak. That Cavs team was a deep group that gave 100% every night but had no other great players besides LeBron which is what we all know is important in the postseason when the rotations get shorter and the minutes go to your best players. The fact is LeBron not only produced at his regular season level, he exceeded it. It wasn't him who faltered but his teammates. Also you keep saying LeBron had no ability in the 4th, yet he out produced Kobe in crunchtime against Orlando. I really don't know how anyone can argue Kobe was better than Bron in 09. Then again it doesn't really matter because you're the only person in here saying it

Are you seriously going to argue that the Heatles don't care about RS records, because its clear that they do.

Again, if the Cavs supporting cast was bad, why did an inferior version of Bron have so much success with them. I didn't hear any complaints of support when the Cavs were 8-0 after the first 2 rounds.

It's an excuse.

[JulesWinnfield]

If you actually think this Heat team cared about anything in the regular reason until that winning streak. That Cavs team was a deep group that gave 100% every night but had no other great players besides LeBron which is what we all know is important in the postseason when the rotations get shorter and the minutes go to your best players. The fact is LeBron not only produced at his regular season level, he exceeded it. It wasn't him who faltered but his teammates. Also you keep saying LeBron had no ability in the 4th, yet he out produced Kobe in crunchtime against Orlando. I really don't know how anyone can argue Kobe was better than Bron in 09. Then again it doesn't really matter because you're the only person in here saying it

Are you seriously going to argue that the Heatles don't care about RS records, because its clear that they do.

Again, if the Cavs supporting cast was bad, why did an inferior version of Bron have so much success with them. I didn't hear any complaints of support when the Cavs were 8-0 after the first 2 rounds.

It's an excuse.

Dan Gilbert's son at the draft lotto is becoming an annual tradition. Wonder how that happened

[WinisKing]

If you actually think this Heat team cared about anything in the regular reason until that winning streak. That Cavs team was a deep group that gave 100% every night but had no other great players besides LeBron which is what we all know is important in the postseason when the rotations get shorter and the minutes go to your best players. The fact is LeBron not only produced at his regular season level, he exceeded it. It wasn't him who faltered but his teammates. Also you keep saying LeBron had no ability in the 4th, yet he out produced Kobe in crunchtime against Orlando. I really don't know how anyone can argue Kobe was better than Bron in 09. Then again it doesn't really matter because you're the only person in here saying it

Are you seriously going to argue that the Heatles don't care about RS records, because its clear that they do.

Again, if the Cavs supporting cast was bad, why did an inferior version of Bron have so much success with them. I didn't hear any complaints of support when the Cavs were 8-0 after the first 2 rounds.

It's an excuse.

The Heat only care about the regular season enough for 1st seed in the East. I thought that was common knowledge.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Kobes 09 WCF was absolutely not better than LeBron's ECF that year. Of course he won, but this isn't tennis. It also helps that Denvers top 3 scorers shot a combined 39%.

So Kobe going 34/6/6 on 63% TS, and great defense/leadership is just a side note?

Lebron was crazy talented in 2009, but still mentally weak, and his defense wasn't there yet.

[Not Bias]

Question....why did the 2009 Cavs have a better record and SRS than any of Lebron's teams...if they sucked so bad?

I mean he's had Wade/Bosh for 3 years now, and still hasn't duplicated that. Even in a weak East, and with a 27 win streak....they still don't have the SRS of that 2009 squad. Strange

You can't give Lebron credit for the 66 wins, and then no blame for the fizzle in the ECF. His defense wasn't there yet, nor was his mental game, or his ability to close in the 4th.

The postseason game is different from the RS, you won't get a steady diet of the garbage teams. I don't care about what the SRS says. When it comes time for the PS, having a guy like Gasol vs Mo WIlliams makes a huge difference!! Lebron played his heart out against the Magic as for him not closing a game, I fondly remember him hitting a buzzer beater to win a game. As for Kobe "closing", I remember a rocket team that had no business being on the same court as the Lakers take them to a game 7. And Gasol won them that game, something Mo Williams can't do.

LOL, the Lakers blew the Rockets out in game 7, the whole team was coasting.

And at least you admit that the playoffs are a different animal from the RS. So yeh, Kobe performing better in the PS is more significant than Lebron getting a "steady diet of the garbage teams" as you point out.

Kobe was the best player in the 2009 playoffs.

So when Kobe shoot's 4-12 the whole team is coasting, but when Lebron puts up a monster series and hits a buzzer beater he doesn't know how to close out a game or he's mentally weak??...gotcha . Man Kobe should have more sub-par shooting performances, so he wouldn't be deemed a selfish player who doesn't care about the team.And again I just proved my point right NOT YOURS because Lebron performed better than Kobe in the RS and PS by all metrics except the media's narrative. Carried a garbage team to the ECF that had no business being there. Lebron was the best player in 2009

[JulesWinnfield]

Kobes 09 WCF was absolutely not better than LeBron's ECF that year. Of course he won, but this isn't tennis. It also helps that Denvers top 3 scorers shot a combined 39%.

So Kobe going 34/6/6 on 63% TS, and great defense/leadership is just a side note?

Lebron was crazy talented in 2009, but still mentally weak, and his defense wasn't there yet.

It is not a sidenote at all. Kobe was terrific in that series. Arguably the best series of his career.

But Lebron's series was better

[coolnerd88]

All I'm going to say is, I never agree with AUF and I still don't but the notion that Lebron carried "homeless" people as one person put it to 66 wins has got to stop.

Lebron is a much better player than he was in 09, mentally and skill wise

There is no excuse for them losing to the Magic with RAFER ALSTON aka SKIP TO MY LOU as they're starting point...not only that he had a good series....................not only that Rashad Lewis KILLED them that series and Lebron wouldn't even guard him. That would not happen last season or this season. So lets stop, I'm a Heat fan but this thread is ridiculous on both sides


all though this is probably going to fall on deaf ears

[An Unbiased Fan]

If you actually think this Heat team cared about anything in the regular reason until that winning streak. That Cavs team was a deep group that gave 100% every night but had no other great players besides LeBron which is what we all know is important in the postseason when the rotations get shorter and the minutes go to your best players. The fact is LeBron not only produced at his regular season level, he exceeded it. It wasn't him who faltered but his teammates. Also you keep saying LeBron had no ability in the 4th, yet he out produced Kobe in crunchtime against Orlando. I really don't know how anyone can argue Kobe was better than Bron in 09. Then again it doesn't really matter because you're the only person in here saying it

Are you seriously going to argue that the Heatles don't care about RS records, because its clear that they do.

Again, if the Cavs supporting cast was bad, why did an inferior version of Bron have so much success with them. I didn't hear any complaints of support when the Cavs were 8-0 after the first 2 rounds.

It's an excuse.

The Heat only care about the regular season enough for 1st seed in the East. I thought that was common knowledge.

That funny....considering the Heat never had #1 seed in the East before this season.

[Not Bias]

All I'm going to say is, I never agree with AUF and I still don't but the notion that Lebron carried "homeless" people as one person put it to 66 wins has got to stop.

Lebron is a much better player than he was in 09, mentally and skill wise

There is no excuse for them losing to the Magic with RAFER ALSTON aka SKIP TO MY LOU as they're starting point...not only that he had a good series....................not only that Rashad Lewis KILLED them that series and Lebron wouldn't even guard him. That would not happen last season or this season. So lets stop, I'm a Heat fan but this thread is ridiculous on both sides


all though this is probably going to fall on deaf ears

He did, explain to me where they all are after he left?? I'll tell you, the LOTTERY!!!!!

[RayBan-Sematra]

So Kobe going 34/6/6 on 63% TS, and great defense is just a side note?

Not a side note but it is worse numbers then what Lebron put up against the Magic.
Also great defense? Kobe had an average DRTG of 113 against Denver.

If anything it appears Lebron played better defense in his ECF series then Kobe did.