Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuable?

booster · Post #61 » by **booster** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:28 pm

This is Shaq pretty clearly. Put him on the 2011 heat instead of lebron and they win the title.

Lebron's a very good defender but he's not on the same level as prime shaq defensively, not even close. Lebron was getting lit up by marion and terry, it was kinda sad.

arifgokcen · Post #62 » by **arifgokcen** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:49 pm

these trolls should be banned probably and alternate account

Gregoire · Post #63 » by **Gregoire** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:20 am

After todays game Lebron somehow has the edge for me.

Blkbrd671 · Post #64 » by **Blkbrd671** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:44 am

Shaq and its not close. Bron brons beasting but he hasn't reached that level.

whitehops · Post #65 » by **whitehops** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:54 pm

someone talk to me when shaq leads his team in PPG, APG and RPG

whitehops · Post #66 » by **whitehops** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:55 pm

RayBan-Sematra wrote:Plus he put up better numbers (then Lebron has thus far).
2000 Shaq PER = 30.5
2013 LBJ PER = 25.8

PEAK shaq FG%: .566
CURRENT LeBron FG%: .627

more dominant scorer goes to....

RayBan-Sematra · Post #67 » by **RayBan-Sematra** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:44 pm

whitehops wrote:PEAK shaq FG%: .57
CURRENT LeBron FG%: .62

more dominant scorer goes to....

PEAK Shaq Diesel PPG : 30+
CURRENT lebron PPG : 24

Not to mention Lebron doesn't get the kind of defensive attention Peak Shaq got, is playing in a league that changed its rules to benefit his style of play and has so far only played against a weak Bucks team that wouldn't have even been a playoff team in the early 00's WC.

Oh and he has the best supporting cast in the league another luxury Peak Shaq didn't have.

Let us see if Lebron maintains this sort of efficiency against a quality defensive team (Bulls / Indy) or in the Finals against a quality team from the West.

booster · Post #68 » by **booster** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:10 pm

arifgokcen wrote:these trolls should be banned probably and alternate account

I hope you're not referring to me. How am I a troll? For saying that Shaq at his best is more valuable than Lebron right now? Get the f out of here. You should be banned for making such a troll post.

Black Feet · Post #69 » by **Black Feet** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:55 pm

Blkbrd671 wrote:Shaq and its not close. Bron brons beasting but he hasn't reached that level.

This.

A lot of people are showing thier age in this thread, they either never seen Shaq play or are just big Lebron stans or Miami fans. That is the only explanation I can come up with. Could you imagine prime Shaq playing against this Bucks team :lol:

whitehops · Post #70 » by **whitehops** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:26 am

RayBan-Sematra wrote:
whitehops wrote:PEAK shaq FG%: .57
CURRENT LeBron FG%: .62

more dominant scorer goes to....

Not to mention Lebron doesn't get the kind of defensive attention Peak Shaq got, is playing in a league that changed its rules to benefit his style of play

source?

JordansBulls · Post #71 » by **JordansBulls** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:36 am

whitehops wrote:
RayBan-Sematra wrote:
whitehops wrote:PEAK shaq FG%: .57
CURRENT LeBron FG%: .62

more dominant scorer goes to....

Not to mention Lebron doesn't get the kind of defensive attention Peak Shaq got, is playing in a league that changed its rules to benefit his style of play

source?

The past few years teams have played Lebron mainly one on one.

rrravenred · Post #72 » by **rrravenred** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:50 am

JordansBulls wrote:
whitehops wrote:
RayBan-Sematra wrote:Not to mention Lebron doesn't get the kind of defensive attention Peak Shaq got, is playing in a league that changed its rules to benefit his style of play

source?

The past few years teams have played Lebron mainly one on one.

Doesn't answer his question. It's an assertion unsupported by evidence.

One take is here.

In my unsupported opinion, you're right, only because Lebron is such a dangerous passer, far more so than Shaq. You throw even a soft double at him, you're asking for him to drive or spin, draw the double hard and then shoot a pass to the perimeter, where the shooters are good enough to make the jumper. Shaq would kill you on his own, Lebron kills you with his entire team, with him being the focal point, so the question of whether the opposition ostensibly throws one or two players at you is a moot point. The team as a whole is geared around neutralising each star player.

They're two radically different players, so a direct comparison is difficult (and I send a jaunty LOL to those trying to make raw-stat arguments), so you need to look at their ability to impact both their own team and the opposition in a play-based rather than stat-based way.

My own views on this are summed up earlier in the thread, so I won't rehash them.

Chalky White · Post #73 » by **Chalky White** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:54 am

I think all one need do is peek at their respective playoff dominance relative to their peers and competition for an answer. Take that how you may.

shawngoat23 · Post #74 » by **shawngoat23** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:26 am

I never thought I'd say it, but LeBron's prime is the best I've seen since Jordan before his first retirement.

As for the question, I take Shaq pre-2005 and LeBron post-2005 because I cannot definitively answer this without knowing the rules context.

TheKingOfVa360 · Post #75 » by **TheKingOfVa360** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:51 pm

Ziggy Stardust wrote:Seriously? peak shaq was twice the player of current Lebron.

I was thinking the same thing. It's a lot of kids voting that never seen peak Shaq play

Dat Pass · Post #76 » by **Dat Pass** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:02 pm

This poll is embarrassing to realgm. Anyone with an ounce of basketball knowledge would know this is Shaq hands down. Shaq's peak was the most dominant thing I've ever seen in any sport. Dude literally could not be stopped without just fouling him every time down the court.

Sad this is even up for debate.

te887848 · Post #77 » by **te887848** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:25 pm

Peak Shaq won a Championship in a MUCH tougher conference with a much weaker supporting cast in a league that didn't change its rules to cater to his style of play.

Plus he put up better numbers (then Lebron has thus far).
2000 Shaq PER = 30.5
2013 LBJ PER = 25.8

I don't see any argument for Lebron here thus far.
I am dumbfounded that so many people voted for him.

People need to go back and watch some 00 Shaq games just to remember how good he was.
He wasn't even a player that year he was a force of nature.

It doesn't matter if his conference was tougher. LeBron's Heat destroy the West anyway, so whether they were playing in the West or the current East, they'd run away with the #1 seed and 65+ wins easily. Shaq never played with a supporting cast as bad as LeBron's 2009 Cavs. Implying otherwise is just ridiculous.

And comparing Shaq's 2000 PER to LeBron's after 2 games? :rofl:

LeBron last season 30/10/6 on 30.3 PER and .580 TS% with an injured Wade/Bosh is better than anything Shaq has ever done. LeBron's 2009 playoffs destroys Shaq's best playoff run. LeBron was at 35/9/7 with a .618 TS% and a devastating 37.4 PER. Shaq doesn't come close. He was never that efficient and never put up those raw stats. Not to mention he had it easy having a 4th quarter closer like Kobe finishing several games for him (see 2000 Finals) while LeBron never had that luxury in Cleveland playing with scrubs. Seriously, the hyperbole surrounding Shaq is just ridiculous. All this "MDE!!!" rhetoric isn't actual evidence of Shaq being better. Numbers and all-around impact are actual evidence of who's better, and both are clearly in favor of LeBron.

te887848 · Post #78 » by **te887848** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:29 pm

JordansBulls wrote:
te887848 wrote:Based on what? LeBron has better stats than Shaq, has a broader impact (halfcourt scoring, post game, midrange game, three-point game, passing, defense, man-to-man defense, transition defense), and has proven that he can win with far less help than Shaq (66 wins with a trash Cleveland squad, no way Shaq could do that when he needed guys like peak Kobe, peak Wade, and peak Penny just to squeak by in the playoffs).

In what way does he have better stats? Remember in Shaq's peak year you had more stars in there primes at the time than you do nowadays.

Comparing their stats, there's really no argument in favor of Shaq. It has nothing to do with how many other stars were in their primes, although that argument hurts Shaq's case as well. What elite centers were there in the 00s during Shaq's prime? He played against scrubs like Todd McCullough. LeBron was in a league with wing superstars like prime Wade, prime Kobe, played prime Durant in the Finals and owned him, etc. Shaq's league was weak.

E-Balla · Post #79 » by **E-Balla** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:46 pm

Ummm.... So 09 is better than Shaq in 01? Remember Lebron didn't play a lick of defense in the series they lost and Shaq went 15-1 while putting up 30.4/15.4/3.2 on the GOAT team IMO (as long as they're playing hard). That team had about a 15 SRS in the playoffs (scored more than anyone, allowed less than anyone). Also from 2000-02 Shaq had more 4th quarter points than Kobe in the playoffs. One game doesn't change that.

E-Balla · Post #80 » by **E-Balla** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:41 pm

Here's Shaq's Finals stats from 00-02:
15 games, 12-3 record, 44.3 mpg, 35.9/15.2/3.5/0.7/2.9, 30.6 PER, 59.5 FG%, 59.1 TS, 118 ORtg.

Last year Lebron played 5 games, went 4-1 (Shaq's average), 44.1 mpg, 28.6/10.2/7.4/1.6/0.4, 31.1 PER, 47.2 FG%, 55.8 TS, 117 ORtg.

Lebron 2013 vs peak Shaq