Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll)

Moderators: penbeast0, PaulieWal, Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ, trex_8063

Where should Kobe rank all-time

Lower than 15
10
8%
12-15
30
24%
10-12
30
24%
9-10
27
22%
8
16
13%
7
2
2%
6
5
4%
Top 5
5
4%
 
Total votes: 125

BmanInBigD
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#61 » by BmanInBigD » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:15 pm

emotional wrote::They don't have the ability to watch a game and see his impact, good or bad, and then be able to use stats later to verify or contradict what they've seen.

YES, only people on Realgm have the ability to watch the heavily televised Laker games and go on a site like ESPN and look at advanced stats lol Talk about delusional

:At least according to any one over 20 with the least bit of music objectivity?
You like empiricism, back this up with proof that backs up your assertion

Kobe isn't popular because he is on ESPN a lot but because he, along with Tim Duncan, are the two quintessential winners in their sport. They both have been top 10 players for the last 15 years as well. The media will always talk about a top player who wins. They aren't constructing some undeserved mediocre star player like you are trying to frame it.

One Direction? Yes because the mechanisms that make the music industry work at all similar to The NBA. Good job.

Also, I love all the fabrications from people pissed that I think Kobe is a top 7-8 player, same people have him no lower than 12, by saying that I don't value stats or empiricism. Let me be clear, math is an incredibly helpful tool to gain insight into the madness of anything but it is not a toll that can give a fully encompassing description of what occurs.


Are you Nairobi in disguise? Jeez, you come in and insult, give your opinions, and when someone else gives an opinion you trot out the old "prove it".
And using Kobe and Duncan kinda proves the point. Duncan is a better player and has also won a lot but they hardly ever talk about him.
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#62 » by boateng » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:23 pm

how many time has this question been asked?
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#63 » by ceiling raiser » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:27 pm

I don't do all-time rankings anymore, but if I did he probably wouldn't be top 15 (very close though). Not a slight in the least, because my valuation is atypical I'm sure (I operate on who I'd select in an all-time draft). I think it's possible that 12 or 13 of my top 15 would be bigs. Top 5 if we're looking at only wings+points obviously.
Now that's the difference between first and last place.
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#64 » by emotional » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:43 pm

boateng wrote:how many time has this question been asked?


Thats what I've been saying. The data is already out there but certain Realgm members with agendas want to keep hashing it out until they can change the narrative as if people care.

Dude said I rarely bring up Duncan when I have less than 20 post wtf :roll:

Duncan is a few slots higher than Kobe on my all time list and this past finals all the sports media crowned him best PF. Confirmation bias is a funny thing.
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#65 » by Durins Baynes » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:03 am

Asianiac_24 wrote:I rank players simply by, "which player could potentially win me the most rings if I have them for their career"? In which case, Kobe gives me a good 13 years window of winning a championship, so he is above guys like Hakeem and KG. As for numbers, Kobe has averaged what, 28/6/6 over the past 10+ years? That sounds pretty dominant to me. I have Kobe around 9-10.


Since emotional's points have been cut apart by 3 different posters now, I'm going to focus on this. How does Kobe give you a 13 year to win a title? He had a 9 year prime (01-10, minus 05). What he was doing before and after then evidently wasn't enough to win a title, we know because he didn't come close to winning one despite really awesome support casts. Indeed, the Lakers were the favourites heading into the 2011 season, during the season, and once the playoffs began (and should really have been faves in the 1999 season if Kobe was that good) and got completely owned in the playoffs both times.
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#66 » by TheRobin » Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:43 am

mojay641 wrote:career averages of 26/5/5/2/56% TS/112 ORTG over 17 seasons. 27+/6/5+/2/56% TS/113 ORTG over 15 seasons as a starter. 3 straight titles and 4 finals in 5 yrs as the best #2 in history including one of the best post-seasons in history (2001 29+/7+/6+/2+) on the best post-season team ever. amazing +/- numbers in his prime. incredible longevity. NBA MVP. a good 8-9 seasons as a top 3 player in the league. multiple seasons as the best in the league at his peak (06,07,08). 3-yr run where he put up 30/6/6/2/57% TS/115 ORTG/26 PER and led his team to three straight finals and back-to-back championships. top 10 playoff performer ever. GOAT level skill-set.

pretty easily top 10 ever.


Not a top ten finals performer.
Disappears in big games.
Was never the best player in the league.
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#67 » by Nairobi » Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:55 am

The Infamous1 wrote:Top 5.


This.

I personally have him at 6th, but aside from Bill, Wilton, Kareem, and Michael, I don't think anyone here can make an objective case for anybody else bein' ranked higher than Bean ( I'd argue Havlicek, but I'll just leave him out for the sake of harmony) :dontknow: I'd love to see it though

EDIT: Oh, and inb4 "impact" replies :onfire:
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#68 » by Durins Baynes » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:27 am

Yes, because his "impact" on a basketball court is irrelevant. Thank goodness the overwhelming majority of the votes here are actually sensible.
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#69 » by DijonRondo » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:33 am

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Bird.
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Shaq
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#70 » by The Infamous1 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:02 pm

Lakerfan17 wrote:Bird isn't on a different level than Kobe, even Bird would tell you that. Kobe's 06-10 run, let alone what he did before in terms of regular season and playoff dominance is completely comparable to a guy like Bird. People like players, coaches, gms, have been calling him the best player in the league since 2001.

You guys act like Bird played every game like what they show as his career best ones on ESPN classic.

Guys like Garnett Dirk and Duncan, Kobe has literally been humiliating them for a decade. Karl Malone? Dr. J? Those guys literally have NO argument over Kobe. Karl I don't even need to explain. Dr. J? Kobe's more skilled than him in literally every aspect of the game save MAYBE rebounding, and the doc's numbers are era inflated in that regard. Kobe can literally do 1000 things on the court he wasn't capable of. Even Wests resume isn't comparable if you look at them objectively.


Durins Baynes/Anaheim Royale/Gilmore fan won't give up on Dr J being better then Kobe. Dude is better by any objective measure we would rank Players and naming Guys like Karl Malone is a joke. While I don't have a problem with someone thinking Duncan/bird should be ranked higher(i have Kobe ahead of both) to act like he isn't on their "levels" is a Joke.
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#71 » by rrravenred » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:08 pm

Keep it on posts, not posters, guys and girls.
ElGee wrote:You, my friend, have shoved those words into my mouth, which is OK because I'm hungry.


Got fallacy?
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#72 » by BmanInBigD » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:23 pm

emotional wrote:
boateng wrote:how many time has this question been asked?


Dude said I rarely bring up Duncan when I have less than 20 post wtf :roll:

Duncan is a few slots higher than Kobe on my all time list and this past finals all the sports media crowned him best PF. Confirmation bias is a funny thing.


If you're talking about me, put your eyes back in your head. I said "they" rarely talk about him, referring to BSPN, etc. Meaning that Duncan's not as flashy as Kobe and the cool kids want to see Kobe, so let's show every shot he makes. Playing into their narrative that he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's actually quite unbelievable how they can push a narrative and have it be accepted by the general public. i.e. Dirk is a choker and a regular season player only. But you just keep listening to the sports media, they know everything. :roll:
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#73 » by MrBigShot » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:19 pm

"Kobe was never the best player in the league" is sig worthy. Yet somehow there was a solid 3 year stretch where EVERYONE league-wide acknowledged Kobe as the consensus best player in the league. Strange huh? I suppose all of those players, coaches, analysts, and front office personnel are simply misinformed and unreliable right?
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#74 » by emotional » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:25 pm

Kobe is far greater than his detractors will give credit. Hate is love. It says a lot that most of his criticism is all speculative i.e. rapist, alpha male, trades etc. Never has a man with supposedly so many issues won in life so much.
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#75 » by Colbinii » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:46 pm

emotional wrote:You didn't hear, MrBigShot. The only people with any valid opinion are the advance stat Realgm players comparison group think that all use the same cookie cutter criteria, weighted the same and thus the same robotic opinions.


You must not have gotten the memo, or maybe you are new to Online Forums, but when a moderator posts this
rrravenred wrote:Keep it on posts, not posters, guys and girls.

I would recommend listening to the authority.

How can some of you discredit impact, slouching in the moment, and having 3 years of his prime crying for a trade? Those 3 things to me keep him outside of the top 8 and likely outside of the top 10. I have him 10-12 right now.
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#76 » by MrBigShot » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:59 pm

^Do you also penalize Kareem for that? (crying for a trade)
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#77 » by emotional » Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:04 pm

or Lebron demanding Cleveland find him teammates or he would leave? or Chris Paul? or Jordan making the Bulls keep Scottie? or Dwight demanding Kobe leave? or Ray Allen leaving the Celtics despite having a better offer? or MJ banning Isiah from Team USA? or Carmelo?
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#78 » by Durins Baynes » Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:14 am

Kobe never was the best player in the NBA. There was one year he won the MVP, and even at the time many agreed it was a career achievement award because people felt Kobe was too good not to have won an MVP yet, not necessarily that he deserved it per se. Chris Paul, Lebron and KG were all superior candidates that year.
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#79 » by MrBigShot » Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:52 am

Lifetime achievement my ass. 28/6/5 efficiently, playing all 82 games, 57 wins and led his team to the Finals. You're just salty that he defeated the Spurs handily that year en route to the Finals. It was well deserved and you know it.

I find it strange that you recognize KG as a legitimate candidate yet blind yourself to the drive, the willpower and the intensity that is...Kobe Bryant. In my opinion, KG's intensity, intangibles and defensive mindset were the most impactful attributes he brought to the team. His on court production was great, but they weren't MVP numbers...and yet he had an MVP-type impact on his team.

It's a shame that so few people on here recognize just how great Kobe is. I suppose he's overrated within the media, but when he retires I think we'll start to realize just how great he is. We take the determination, the drive, the incredible focus, playing through injuries, the advanced skillset, the ability to often will the ball into the basket and make the impossible possible, for granted. Kobe is greatness personified...
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Re: Where do you rank Kobe all-time? (poll) 

Post#80 » by HornetJail » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:05 am

Got him at #10. The gigantic Kobe-hating monster in me wants to put KG in front of him, but I can't find a legit reason to do it.
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