The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 3)

[Mutnt]

Duncan's teams defeated:

West: Suns, Wolves, Lakers, Blazers, Mavs, Sonics/Thunder*, Grizz, Nuggets, Kings, Jazz, Pelicans (Hornets at the time), Clippers, Warriors = 13

(interesting that the Rockers & Spurs never met in the playoffs while Duncan played)

East: Knicks, Nets, Pistons, Cavs, Heat = 5

TOTAL = 18

MJ's teams defeated:

West: Lakers, Blazers, Suns, Sonics/Thunder*, Jazz = 5

East: Cavs, Knicks, Bucks, Sixers, Pistons, Heat, Hawks, Hornets ('95 comeback), Magic, Wizards (Bullets at the time), Nets, Pacers = 12

TOTAL = 17

Shaq's teams defeated:

West: Blazers, Sonics/Thunder*, Rockets, Kings, Suns, Spurs, Wolves, Mavs = 8

East: Celtics, Bulls, Pacers, Pistons, Hawks, Sixers, Nets, Wizards, Knicks ('11 Celtics Shaq who played 12 minutes ) = 9

TOTAL = 17

Kobe's teams defeated:

West: Blazers, Sonics/Thunder*, Rockets, Kings, Suns, Spurs, Wolves, Nuggets, Jazz, Pelicans (Hornets at the time) = 10

East: Pacers, Sixers, Nets, Magic, Celtics = 5

TOTAL = 15

Kareem's teams defeated:

West: Warriors (San Francisco & Golden State), Lakers, Bulls, Nuggets, Suns, Sonics/Thunder*, Spurs, Blazers, Kings (Kansas City), Mavs, Jazz = 11

East: Sixers, Bullets/Wizards**, Celtics, Pistons, = 4

TOTAL = 15

*depends if you count the Sonics and Thunder as one franchise - I did.
**depends how you count the Baltimore Bullets, Washington Bullets and Washington Wizards

[JLei]

I missed the game discussion.

But pretty much the meta thinking unstoppability of the Love, Frye w/ Lebron on lineup came to fruition in that 4th quarter.

Lebron + small pick and roll with a 42% corner shooter and a 40% corner shooter in the other means it's a Lebron + small pick and roll with 0 rim protection. There's no defense for that at all. No team ever can stop that.

How are you grading Lebron on offense for this season right now?

If he's this willing to be featured off the ball (50% assisted) and as the primary on-ball screener + serviceable 3P shooting (especially catch & shoot/spot-up shooting ~39%) he's gotta be pretty darn high right? At least higher than last year. Both those things make him super portable on offense as well and the results are bearing that out with the GOAT offense by a margin and basically everyone on the entire team going off simultaneously.

Higher than last year. But not by much at all. The jumper is a real bummer. Last year he shot better from 3 but more importantly teams still played him like he could shoot. So he could still just spam PnR's and punish switches and Lebron ball small guys.

Teams this year are much more liberal about going way under screens, not respecting him outside (no spacing effect), switching bigs onto him and holding the possession closer to 1pt vs. 1.2pts. Just too many possessions grind to a halt due to this limitation. He's still god tier passer/ close to the best post player and killer cutting and rolling but results wise it isn't that different.

So maybe like 4.75-5 to 5-5.25.

[tone wone]

He's also just a noticeable amount weaker because of the weight loss which contributes to the weaker finishing around the rim.

Guys like Millsap used to eat a shoulder and go flying into the stands and now if they stay semi in front of him he has a hard time finishing over them.

You notice it a lot in the fast break where guys would just plain give up even if they were ahead of him because they would just eat a shoulder or forearm and go flying and now they set up and try to get in front of him and he tries to go around them.

He's just overall less physically overwhelming. That's partly why 14 Bron was such a marvel offensively. He was still huge yet had 95% of his Cleveland speed back. Also he could shoot.

The bicep flex after every and 1 is him trying to show some bravado like he's still the same strength. But anyone who remembers what he was like knows it's not true.

The broken nose dunk on Ibaka perfectly exemplifies where he was strength and leaping wise
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5ISBDWvAIY[/youtube]

Back to back reverse dunks against CHA..
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAWYuYiJeu0[/youtube]

the power displayed on some of these finishes is just wow...
https://youtube.com/watch?v=HZl-Kf24oZ8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=t4Wzos4ttc4

[RSCD3_]

Playoff Wowy Data

LeBron On 310 minutes

122.7 ORTG and 104.3 DRTG +18.5

Love, LeBron ON 202 minutes

127.2 ORTG 108.1 DRTG +19.1

Irving and LeBron ON 213 minutes

126.2 ORTG 110.3 DRTG +15.9

Irving, Love, LeBron ON 185 minutes

128.4 ORTG 109.7 DRTG +18.3

Delly and LeBron ON 76 Minutes

127.7 ORTG 92.7 DRTG +35.0!!!

Delly, Love, LeBron ON 26 minutes

131.1 ORTG 108.9 DRTG

LeBron, Frye ON 67 Minutes

131.1 ORTG 86.1 DRTG +45.0

LeBron, Frey, Delly ON 45 Minutes

125.9 ORTG 80.2 DRTG +45.7

[JordansBulls]

There are only two teams in the East who Lebron has yet to defeat in a playoff series (not counting Cleveland). They are Toronto and Miami. Obviously that list will now shrink to 1 depending on the opponent next round

Did he beat Orlando yet? I only remember 2009 against them.

[Arman_tanzarian]

There are only two teams in the East who Lebron has yet to defeat in a playoff series (not counting Cleveland). They are Toronto and Miami. Obviously that list will now shrink to 1 depending on the opponent next round

Did he beat Orlando yet? I only remember 2009 against them.

You're right

[RSCD3_]

There are only two teams in the East who Lebron has yet to defeat in a playoff series (not counting Cleveland). They are Toronto and Miami. Obviously that list will now shrink to 1 depending on the opponent next round

Did he beat Orlando yet? I only remember 2009 against them.

I think it's played every team but them because he's only faced Orlando that one time.

[Mutnt]

LeBron

East: Wizards, Nets, Pistons, Hawks, Bulls, Sixers, Celtics, Knicks, Pacers, Bucks, Hornets (fka Bobcats) = 11

West: Thunder, Spurs = 2

In the East he has yet to defeat Magic (lost in 2009), Raptors, Heat, Cavs in a series.

[JulesWinnfield]

There are only two teams in the East who Lebron has yet to defeat in a playoff series (not counting Cleveland). They are Toronto and Miami. Obviously that list will now shrink to 1 depending on the opponent next round

Did he beat Orlando yet? I only remember 2009 against them.

You're right. No clue why I had them in my head as a past victim, total brain fart. Good catch. I should always double check these things

[The High Cyde]

Thought you guys might enjoy this video

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFVF0TptMME&feature=youtu.be&a[/youtube]

[Dupp]

LeBron

East: Wizards, Nets, Pistons, Hawks, Bulls, Sixers, Celtics, Knicks, Pacers, Bucks, Hornets (fka Bobcats) = 11

West: Thunder, Spurs = 2

In the East he has yet to defeat Magic (lost in 2009), Raptors, Heat, Cavs in a series.

He beat the cavs in 2010

[OnlyOneWay2Play]

On one hand I love the way the Cavs are playing on offense; team-oriented, sharing the ball, getting everyone involved, and taking efficient shots (open 3's mostly). And LeBron has been a big part of that with his excellent passing and being far less ball-dominant than usual.

On the other hand however, I am pretty concerned about his individual scoring ability thus far. We all know his jumper is mostly broken (though a bit better in the playoffs, but that's not saying much), but his inside finishing, post-up moves, and even explosiveness on the break have been really underwhelming. Last game especially, he was falling down on drives, getting blocked, not dunking anything, and not showing any craft in the post (got stoned by Thabo a lot!). Also, his FT shooting is terrible. Overall, he just looks much less powerful and capable of exerting his will, in terms of his own scoring.

What do you guys think is wrong? Is he dinged up? Is he just really tired? It's strange because at the end of the regular season, his finishing looked really good, better than last year. And look at Wade these playoffs; the guy is 3 years older with more injuries and he's BRINGING IT. So far, the Cavs have played great team ball, but I'm worried that when they need LeBron to dominate individually, he won't be able to...

[tone wone]

On one hand I love the way the Cavs are playing on offense; team-oriented, sharing the ball, getting everyone involved, and taking efficient shots (open 3's mostly). And LeBron has been a big part of that with his excellent passing and being far less ball-dominant than usual.

On the other hand however, I am pretty concerned about his individual scoring ability thus far. We all know his jumper is mostly broken (though a bit better in the playoffs, but that's not saying much), but his inside finishing, post-up moves, and even explosiveness on the break have been really underwhelming. Last game especially, he was falling down on drives, getting blocked, not dunking anything, and not showing any craft in the post (got stoned by Thabo a lot!). Also, his FT shooting is terrible. Overall, he just looks much less powerful and capable of exerting his will, in terms of his own scoring.

What do you guys think is wrong? Is he dinged up? Is he just really tired? It's strange because at the end of the regular season, his finishing looked really good, better than last year. And look at Wade these playoffs; the guy is 3 years older with more injuries and he's BRINGING IT. So far, the Cavs have played great team ball, but I'm worried that when they need LeBron to dominate individually, he won't be able to...

His own scoring ability has been THE lingering concern for me this entire season. If i'm not mistaken, he didn't have a 40pt game this year. While 40 points isn't necessarily some benchmark needed to prove scoring ability...it does lead me to wonder just how high he can he scale his own scoring.

As you said, CLE offense is killing ****. With Kyrie looking like his 2015 self and the 3pt shot being on for everyone in the rotation (sans Tristan & Bron) maybe Lebron can 23ppg his way to a title....but I wouldn't bet on it. His actual scoring shouldn't be all that threatening to a defense like GSW's.

[BasketballFan7]

Meh, I think less LBJ p&r is a good thing on a team with other star level scorers. The ball movement has been great. I'd like to see more post touches for LBJ and love, but it's nit picking. I think in many ways his off scoring has resulted in what we are seeing from the cavs.

I would like to see some more spring, but we saw it late in the season and the Cavs have a week off. He should be rested up. Then, with how bad Toronto and Miami look, I think the Cavs may have more rest prior to the finals. We shall see.

[datstockton]

We saw his finishing and athleticism there at the end of the year; people were honestly questioning whether this was the best he's looked since 2012-2013. That doesn't just disappear in a matter of a few weeks. Honestly, as strange as it sounds because it is the playoffs, I feel like LeBron has been in coast mode in these two rounds. He hasn't really been aggressive in many of these games, and if he does get aggressive it's in the the 4th quarter. He knows he can beat these teams without exerting maximum effort. I think we'll see more of the same if they play the Raps in the next round, but if they play the Heat expect a fully engaged LeBron.

[OnlyOneWay2Play]

I hope you guys are right about LeBron just coasting / needing rest. Still, it's a bit unsettling to be waiting on full-effort now that it's the playoffs.

Meanwhile, what Curry did tonight was awe-inspiring as a basketball fan and terrifying as a LeBron / Cavs fan. Curry is just straight-up on another level; he can dominate far more than anyone else currently, and perhaps ever (yes including MJ). The Cavs will need the absolute best that LBJ can muster to have a chance in the Finals; he'll have to be just as aggressive and active as he was last year, but efficient and team-oriented (as he has mostly been this year).

PS - someone also want to explain how the heck Wade is playing like this?!? The guy looked done often during many of the 'Bron-era Heat playoff runs (except for a few games here and there). Now the he beasting and carrying a huge load night after night at 34 years old! This is what also worries me about LeBron; older guys like Wade and hurt guys like Curry seem to just have so much more explosion and energy; where is LeBron's force?

[Dupp]

I hope you guys are right about LeBron just coasting / needing rest. Still, it's a bit unsettling to be waiting on full-effort now that it's the playoffs.

I dont think hes coasting as such (well maybe on defense some times) but more trying to get the team playing great as a whole and specifically love and irving. He knows they need to play great for us to win so i think hes leaving a lot of responsibility to them while he can.

[RSCD3_]

In the playoffs lebron has 44 possessions isolating, guess how many shooting fouls he's drawn.

Spoiler:

Zero. He literally hasnt gotten a single call in isolation. It's crazy.

Add Kyrie to the equation and together they've drew one shooting foul in 75 possessions.

[IG2]

We saw his finishing and athleticism there at the end of the year; people were honestly questioning whether this was the best he's looked since 2012-2013.

True, but that was only a month-long thing, as opposed to 5 months of noticeably inferior paint-explosiveness from November to March. And we saw more of the same, if not worse, in the first 2 rounds, which leads me to believe this is who he is. His end-to-end speed to go along with his quickness and change-of-direction in the half-court is still very good, but it's those last couple of strides to get to the basket, plus the eventual take-off where he has definitely lost something this season. And it's understandable - he's 31. It's his weakest version as an athlete since his resurgence in 2013, IMO. Those versions, even when the jumper was off, could still be high-volume scorers on the basis of ridiculous slashing/finishing game alone. Current LeBron is struggling to score even when he's really trying.

[Arman_tanzarian]

What is Cavs SRS vs Raps or Heat for the playoffs?