#5 Best Defensive Point Guard of All Time - The ten best defenders in each position project

[Gibson22]

Jerry West 7 (samurai, penbeast, pandrade, skyhookftw, eminence, heartbreakkid, pistolpetejr)
Chris Paul 5 (trex, knickfan, drpositivity, uberhikari, lost92bricks)
John Stockton 5 (cecil, luigi, iggymcfrack, bounce_9, LABird)
Nate Mcmillan 1 (lebron3-14-3)
Mookie Blaylock 1 (Shaq32)
Maurice Cheeks 1 (sincegatlingwasarookie)

Yes, the problem is that the votes of heartbreakkid and pistolpetejr arrived late, I would move on (pistolpete would have voted in time, he just didn't express his vote because of a misunderstanding), but people seem more oriented to a run-off

[Samurai]

guys..

I am confused by the rules - shouldn't a runoff be used in the event of a tie? By my count, here is the breakdown:
West - 7 (Samurai, Penbeast, Pandrade, SkyHookFTW, Eminence, HeartbreakKid, PistolPete JR)
Stockton - 5 (Cecil, Luigi, Iggymcfrack, Bounce9, LABird)
CP3 - 5 (TRex, Knickfan, Dr. Positivity, Uberhikiri, Lost 92 Bricks)

In round 3, Payton won by only 1 vote even though some were received after the deadline. If that one didn't require a runoff, why are we doing a runoff when the leader is ahead by 2 votes?

[Gibson22]

guys..

I am confused by the rules - shouldn't a runoff be used in the event of a tie? By my count, here is the breakdown:
West - 7 (Samurai, Penbeast, Pandrade, SkyHookFTW, Eminence, HeartbreakKid, PistolPete JR)
Stockton - 5 (Cecil, Luigi, Iggymcfrack, Bounce9, LABird)
CP3 - 5 (TRex, Knickfan, Dr. Positivity, Uberhikiri, Lost 92 Bricks)

In round 3, Payton won by only 1 vote even though some were received after the deadline. If that one didn't require a runoff, why are we doing a runoff when the leader is ahead by 2 votes?

I am confused too, I'm sorry guys! I didn't notice that payton won with late votes.. we could move on to the #6 place, that's what I would do

[Gibson22]

guys..

I am confused by the rules - shouldn't a runoff be used in the event of a tie? By my count, here is the breakdown:
West - 7 (Samurai, Penbeast, Pandrade, SkyHookFTW, Eminence, HeartbreakKid, PistolPete JR)
Stockton - 5 (Cecil, Luigi, Iggymcfrack, Bounce9, LABird)
CP3 - 5 (TRex, Knickfan, Dr. Positivity, Uberhikiri, Lost 92 Bricks)

In round 3, Payton won by only 1 vote even though some were received after the deadline. If that one didn't require a runoff, why are we doing a runoff when the leader is ahead by 2 votes?

Anyway, no, Payton didn't win with late votes

[HeartBreakKid]

If you're going to do something like this you need to establish clear rules and guidelines, if you're going to wing it the project won't last.

[Gibson22]

If you're going to do something like this you need to establish clear rules and guidelines, if you're going to wing it the project won't last.

The rules are that there are 48 hours to vote, the player who has the most votes at the end of the 48 hours wins, if two or more players are tied-up we do a run-off, in the run-off anybody but who voted for the players involved in the run-off can vote. You have 15 hours to vote in the run-off. But in this case, pistolpete jr said something like, oh, john stockton over jerry west, #recencybias, expressing a clear preference for jerry west, before the deadline. 37 minutes after the deadline, he got that stockton didn't win, and he voted for jerry. You voted for him 32 minutes after the deadline. If both votes arrived after the deadline, I wouldn't have doubts about the run-off, but because of pistol-pete, I'm dubious.

[Samurai]

If you're going to do something like this you need to establish clear rules and guidelines, if you're going to wing it the project won't last.

I agree. Changing the rules in the middle (if you win by one vote, you win even if it ran over the "deadline". If you win by two votes, we go to a runoff) seems very confusing as if the goalposts are shifting. I would suggest just state the guidelines, particularly regarding positions (X will be counted as a PG, Y will be counted as a SF, Z will be counted as a C, etc) and how voting will be tabulated (what are the deadlines and how are they enforced, do posters need to provide a reason - some do and some don't, etc). I think we just need to know the rules ahead of time; if it seems that the goal posts are shifting, personally I would lose interest in this project.

[Gibson22]

Anyway, we are officially doing a run-off, since, in theory, both votes arrived late. NO previous thread was decided by late votes.

[PigsOnTheWing]

Jerry West 7 (samurai, penbeast, pandrade, skyhookftw, eminence, heartbreakkid, pistolpetejr)
Chris Paul 5 (trex, knickfan, drpositivity, uberhikari, lost92bricks)
John Stockton 5 (cecil, luigi, iggymcfrack, bounce_9, LABird)
Nate Mcmillan 1 (lebron3-14-3)
Mookie Blaylock 1 (Shaq32)
Maurice Cheeks 1 (sincegatlingwasarookie)

Yes, the problem is that the votes of heartbreakkid and pistolpetejr arrived late, I would move on (pistolpete would have voted in time, he just didn't express his vote because of a misunderstanding), but people seem more oriented to a run-off

Aside from what happened this time I think we should clarify some rules and methods for situations like this. For example, we set a deadline at the beginning of the thread and every vote coming later than that will not be counted. If two players are tied, start a run-off lasting 8/12/18 hours (I'm just throwing numbers, whatever is good for me), or wait until one of the players get 3 votes (and who does is the winner). I'm just writing the first ideas that are coming to mind now, let me (and all of you) know what you think becuase I feel it's important to include every possibility in a set of rules.

[Gibson22]

If you're going to do something like this you need to establish clear rules and guidelines, if you're going to wing it the project won't last.

I agree. Changing the rules in the middle (if you win by one vote, you win even if it ran over the "deadline". If you win by two votes, we go to a runoff) seems very confusing as if the goalposts are shifting. I would suggest just state the guidelines, particularly regarding positions (X will be counted as a PG, Y will be counted as a SF, Z will be counted as a C, etc) and how voting will be tabulated (what are the deadlines and how are they enforced, do posters need to provide a reason - some do and some don't, etc). I think we just need to know the rules ahead of time; if it seems that the goal posts are shifting, personally I would lose interest in this project.

First of all I will for Jerry West and "root" for him, it's not like I'm biased or anything like that. What rules have I changed? Can you show me what thread was decided by late votes?
About the positions, what's the problem? We estabilished the positions (jerry west, dennis johnson and various others before the start of the project, we literally did it. Before starting the SGs, we will do it again, and then with all the other positions. What's the problem? What rules do we need?

[Gibson22]

Jerry West 7 (samurai, penbeast, pandrade, skyhookftw, eminence, heartbreakkid, pistolpetejr)
Chris Paul 5 (trex, knickfan, drpositivity, uberhikari, lost92bricks)
John Stockton 5 (cecil, luigi, iggymcfrack, bounce_9, LABird)
Nate Mcmillan 1 (lebron3-14-3)
Mookie Blaylock 1 (Shaq32)
Maurice Cheeks 1 (sincegatlingwasarookie)

Yes, the problem is that the votes of heartbreakkid and pistolpetejr arrived late, I would move on (pistolpete would have voted in time, he just didn't express his vote because of a misunderstanding), but people seem more oriented to a run-off

Aside from what happened this time I think we should clarify some rules and methods for situations like this. For example, we set a deadline at the beginning of the thread and every vote coming later than that will not be counted. If two players are tied, start a run-off lasting 8/12/18 hours (I'm just throwing numbers, whatever is good for me), or wait until one of the players get 3 votes (and who does is the winner). I'm just writing the first ideas that are coming to mind now, let me (and all of you) know what you think becuase I feel it's important to include every possibility in a set of rules.

48 hours to vote, if two or more are tied we do a run-off. A run off lasts 15 hours. Who already voted for one of the candidates of the run-off can't vote again. That's it, I think.

[Gibson22]

1- Jason Kidd won easily, no late votes.
2- Walt Frazier, no late votes
3- 9 HOURS before the deadline, gary was up by 2 votes, 1 hour after the deadline I counted (my mistake) one vote for jerry west, who still lost 6 to 5. If the vote for jerry west was decisive to tie gary, I would not have counted that, but still, I shouldn't have counted it. STILL, no thread was influenced by late votes
4- DENNIS JOHNSON was up 7 to 5 40 minutes before the deadline, no late votes.

What are you talking about? ANYWAY, the run-off is up, since WE NEVER COUNTED LATE VOTES. Sorry for the confusion, the thread is up. viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1752584

[PigsOnTheWing]

In lebron3-14-3 "justification" this is really a borderline situation because the votes were late but by a little and, most important, one of them had already stated a preference though not official and he misunderstood at what point we were.
I think we must be strict as hell, even 1 minute late is too much . But, seriously, I'm saying this for the benefit of the project because people are already starting to complain. This is obviously just my point of view and I'm anyway seriously appreciating what you (lebron3-14-3) are doing.

[Gibson22]

In lebron3-14-3 "justification" this is really a borderline situation because the votes were late but by a little and, most important, one of them had already stated a preference though not official and he misunderstood at what point we were.
I think we must be strict as hell, even 1 minute late is too much . But, seriously, I'm saying this for the benefit of the project because people are already starting to complain. This is obviously just my point of view and I'm anyway seriously appreciating what you (lebron3-14-3) are doing.

Thank you, anyway, when samurai said me that previously I counted late votes, I tought yeah, you guys are right, I messed up, there's a bit of confusion, but I checked and no, I never counted late votes, and we will not do it this time.
I don't see any issue, I just like to ask what other people think instead of setting rules.

[trex_8063]

This is really close.

At the end of the deadline we had 5 votes for stockton, 5 for cp3, 5 for jerry (and one for cheeks, mookie and nate).

32 minutes after the deadline (48 hours after the start of the thread) we had another vote for jerry west.

For the fact that it arrived after the deadline, and also for the fact that there are 3 candidates so close, I would proceed with a run-off. Do you agree? And, how should we proceed? The first one to arrive to 5 votes, excluding the ones who already voted for one of these 3 candidates? Tell me what you think.

Oh, I'm sorry for being late, I had other things to do

EDIT: I Was wrong! Didn't read the last comment probably.

They were all at 5, but counting pistolpete he's at six. And then there's homecourtloss who probably voted late, so I would give it to west. Btw if we started a run-off we should count those 2 late votes, and I would vote for west, so I don't think that the result would change, but, for me, it is fair to give it to jerry

I would probably start a 3-way runoff, have people pick their ONE fav candidate (mostly we're just looking for the people who hadn't already cast a vote for one of the three to take a side). HOpefully that leaves us with a winner, or if not, at least a means of fairly narrowing it to two candidates for a further runoff. That's how we'd typically handle this situation in the top 100 project anyway.

Yes, that's what I was going to do, but with PistolPete who expressed his preference for jerry west before the deadline, but voted for him 37 minutes later for a misunderstanding, I would probably go with jerry, also considering the other late vote for him. I mean, if homecourtloss voted for stockton or cp3 I would be inclined to go with the run-off, but in this case we have one late vote + one maybe late vote for jerry west

Sorry, I missed that. Yeah, I mean unless there's an out-pouring of gripes about not going to runoff, then [imo, but it's your show] I'd probably just give the spot to West and move on. I think it's good to be a little lax or understanding wrt deadlines, because life gets busy or whatever, and people will sometimes just marginally miss the deadline.

EDIT: However (trex reads on...), it seems some people are calling for a hard deadline (which should probably be clearly stated in each OP like "voting will end at X:XX EST" or similar), so maybe ignore what I said or otherwise use your best judgement.

Chairing projects like this is hard [I was totally burnt out after the last top 100 project], so I [we] are grateful to you for doing this one; because it's a really interesting and worthwhile project idea. They're hard to run because there are ALWAYS issues that crop up, and the crap of it is: NO solution you come up with will 100% satisfy EVERYONE involved. So.....whatever you decide. You're doing fine, though.

[Gibson22]

I would probably start a 3-way runoff, have people pick their ONE fav candidate (mostly we're just looking for the people who hadn't already cast a vote for one of the three to take a side). HOpefully that leaves us with a winner, or if not, at least a means of fairly narrowing it to two candidates for a further runoff. That's how we'd typically handle this situation in the top 100 project anyway.

Yes, that's what I was going to do, but with PistolPete who expressed his preference for jerry west before the deadline, but voted for him 37 minutes later for a misunderstanding, I would probably go with jerry, also considering the other late vote for him. I mean, if homecourtloss voted for stockton or cp3 I would be inclined to go with the run-off, but in this case we have one late vote + one maybe late vote for jerry west

Sorry, I missed that. Yeah, I mean unless there's an out-pouring of gripes about not going to runoff, then [imo, but it's your show] I'd probably just give the spot to West and move on. I think it's good to be a little lax or understanding wrt deadlines, because life gets busy or whatever, and people will sometimes just marginally miss the deadline.

At this point, since apparently this project is lacking rules, I decided to start a run-off and state that only votes within 48 hours from the start will be counted

[trex_8063]

At this point, since apparently this project is lacking rules, I decided to start a run-off and state that only votes within 48 hours from the start will be counted

See my edit on my previous post (just put it in).