FrogBros4Life wrote:trex_8063 wrote:Personally, I'd say it's a big stretch to say Barkley outplayed Robinson on the defensive end.
Again, I'm not saying that Barkley outplayed him on the defensive end for the whole series. For that one game? Yeah, I'd say he did. Barkley had 17 defensive rebounds, compared to 7 for Robinson. Barkley had 4 steals and 2 blocks. Robinson had 4 blocks and 2 steals. Steals are generally a little more valuable than blocks so I again give Barkley the advantage. Barkley also had a lot of deflections and was generally more of a disruptive defensive force the entire game. Also back to timely contributions. Barkley had a steal on Robinson in the post during the last minute or so with the game undecided that helped determine the outcome. And on the biggest defensive stop of the game, Robinson couldn't return the favor. Not sure how anyone can say Robinson played better offensively or defensively that specific game. Seems pretty cut and dry.
I couldn't find video of the full game; other than some highlight reels, the best I could find was this video......
.......which is the last ~9 minutes of the game, which I did scout and will refer to from time-to-time.
Adding up DRebs, Stls, and Blks----or even with certain weighting on them [e.g. (x * DReb) + (y * Stl) + (z * Blk) = Total Defensive Contribution]-----as a means of calculating defensive performance is going to have a lot of room for error. For instance, by such methodology, James Harden has been a better defensive player
every year of his career than Joe Dumars EVER was. And Harden has been a better defensive player every year in a Rockets jersey than Bruce Bowen EVER was. I trust I don't need to elaborate further on this point.
For that matter, if we want to play the strictly numbers game, I would say the numbers indicate Robinson outplayed Barkley on the
offensive end in game 6:
Barkley had 28 pts @ 50.1% TS, with 4 ORebs, 4 Ast, and 4 tov. His ORtg was 100 (-3.8 relative to his team avg).
Robinson had 22 pts @ 52.0% TS, with 7 ORebs, 5 Ast, and only 2 tov. His ORtg was 119 (+17.2 relative to his team avg). This while drawing at least as many double-teams as Barkley [probably more] because there so few other scoring threats on that Spurs team, as well as being the primary screen-setter for any pnr action.
And if "timely" plays carry increased importance---as you have argued---I'd note that it was Robinson who grabbed the rebound on the Danny Ainge missed FT and was fouled (by Barkley, fwiw) with I think 10.6 seconds left (Spurs down by 2). He then goes and ices two FT's to tie the game. I cannot see that as any less clutch than Barkley's final shot.
But anyway, circling back to defense, I would disagree that Barkley was a bigger disruptive force on defense than Robinson (though I cannot say it to a certainly because I only had those 9 minutes of the game to scout), just based on the types of players that they are. By the very nature of being an elite rim-protector, it can have a lot of impact on the shot type the opponent takes, even if one doesn't come up with a block: in any given game, there are generally a lot of possessions that get deferred to the mid-range or outside (because said rim-protector is inside), as well as a lot of shots which aren't blocked
but are changed near the rim.
I scouted those 9 minutes of the game, and I will allow that Robinson did have a couple of defensive miscues, and that Barkley did---for the most part----play pretty well on the defensive end. But to provide some examples of what the effect a rim protector has.......
8:40 - Robinson makes an excellent contest on Tom Chambers (no block, just alters the shot, forcing a miss). He can't get the handle on the loose ball after the miss, though he does rotate nicely to the help position after the next inbound.
9:50 - Makes just a hint of a show at the penetrating Kevin Johnson, who elects to kick it out rather than challenge him (DRob ultimately gets the DReb on the missed outside shot).<<<------This kind of thing happens all the time with elite rim protectors, and goes pretty much entirely unnoticed by casual fans, but it DOES ultimately effect the team's defensive efficiency when the opponent is simply reluctant to come inside and settling for lesser shots.
We see this again the very next possession (starting at 10:33), where KJ begins to penetrate the middle, gets to about the FT-line and stops because Robinson's right there. He kicks out to Barkley, who is conceded the outside shot by Robinson (again, I'd argue this is largely gameplan--->let him shoot from the outside).
12:21 - Another example of how an elite rim-protector dissuades shots near the hoop: DRob has hedged a little toward the penetrating KJ (who kicks to Oliver Miller). Robinson is then a little slow recovering to Barkley (where the ball goes next), but even so, Barkley thinks better of it as Robinson goes up, kicking back to Oliver Miller for a 14-ft jump shot. The shot goes in, but I can't imagine a mid-range jumper by Oliver Miller is the shot they want to get on a possession.
23:59 - Another example of altering things where he'll get no boxscore credit. He's first very physical with Barkley, not allowing him to get to the ball-handler to set the screen (forcing the Suns to burn 2-3 extra seconds of the shotclock just to get a screen set), he then makes a decent show on KJ but Sean Elliot has unfortunately died on the screen, so KJ is able to penetrate into the interior (fwiw, if you pause the video and view the position of everyone, Robinson absolutely made the correct play in rotating back toward the open Barkley rather than COMPLETELY staying with KJ). Cummings comes to help on KJ, who dishes to the open Oliver Miller under the hoop, but the dunk is missed as----guess who---Robinson challenges the shot. Again, no block credited here (and unfortunately for the Spurs the ball bounces directly to KJ who pops it back up and in), but that was an excellent defensive possession for Robinson as an individual.
So anyway, Barkley did play better defensively in this sample than I was expecting to find, and Robinson did have a couple of poor possessions in there. But nonetheless, I'd be skeptical that Barkley was actually causing more disruption (in terms of non-box plays) than Robinson over the course of the whole game.
"The fact that a proposition is absurd has never hindered those who wish to believe it." -Edward Rutherfurd
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
