Better peak - Leonard vs Russell

[freethedevil]

Kawhi is a better player, Russell has a better legacy.

Why it doesn't surprise me that only Jordan stan picks Kawhi here?

I mean, "the game has evolved" would also apply to Jordan,,.

[Gooner]

Kawhi is a better player, Russell has a better legacy.

Why it doesn't surprise me that only Jordan stan picks Kawhi here?

I mean, "the game has evolved" would also apply to Jordan,,.

That was the peak of the NBA. Russell played before modern era.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Russell had better athleticism, better length, better strength. He shut down Wilt Chamberlain who was far better than Giannis or Jimmy freaking Butler. He also locked down offenses run by Oscar Robertson and Jerry West. He's intimidated to a point that guards didn't want to drive to the paint in a league without three point line and some anecdotes even tell us that some of guards were scared of taking open jumpshots without looking at Russell twice.

Russell lead elite defenses in 13 years of his career and only 5 of his teams were better than Kawhi's best defensive team (2016 Spurs), 8 of them better than 2017 Spurs.

Also, finally, Russell's defense is much more valuable than Kawhi's offense. Not even a question.

Length? A big man to a SF? You want to play that game, Leonard is the better shooter and ball handler. The passing isn't huge, the scoring gap is huge. The offensive gap is bigger than the defense gap Do you see why Leonard is better now? Make sure you read the bold letters.

Why do you keep talking about offense when I replied about defense?

Scoring gap is huge, offensive gap is also big. Defensive gap is far bigger and you are the only one who can't get it.

Kawhi is not GOAT offensive player, he's very good volume scorer who can carry weaker teams but can't run elite offense because he's mediocre playmaker and he needs a lot of time to score. Russell is GOAT offensive player who can make your defense the best ever with average roster.

You can say all you want your bolded part, but you can't convince me with words alone. Show me some stats to back it up. Not individual scoring stats but how Kawhi improved offenses and makes them ATG ones. You won't show me that because that stats don't exist.

Meanwhile Russell anchored 4 best defensive teams of all time by rDRtg. He led the best defense in the league in 1958 and in 1969, both dominant by any margin. Not to mention that rDRtg actually decreases gap for smaller league, so the Celtics were actually more dominant than their numbers suggest.

Show me something tangible that would say Kawhi is better. Something different than scoring stats.

So far, you can look at poll results and think about it. Maybe, just maybe, you can be wrong? Because 40 people on PC Board are not Kawhi haters. Hell, I really like Kawhi. I hope that Clippers will win next year and I hope that Kawhi will build his legacy as an ATG player. But he's not close to GOAT candidate like Bill Russell and you are the only one who in this thread who fights against Bill.

Leading elite offensive teams is overrated if it doesn't translate to playoff success. Thats what makes KG as an offensive player overrated, his game didn't translate well to playoffs.

Spurs were a top 4 offensive team with Kawhi as there leading scorer in 2016, thats an elite offense. 2017 the offense declined a little bit because Aldridge didn't know how to adjust to being a sidekick. Look what Kawhi's teams have done so far as his teams best player:

2016: top 4 offense, 1st in defense, 2nd in SRS, 67 wins

2017: top 9 offense, 1st in defense. 2nd in SRS, 61 wins

2019: One of the best defensive playoff runs ever, champion.

They all have great success with him as the best player, he just didn't play with as much talent as Russell and wasn't with the same franchise his whole career. Raptors 2019 offense had nobody on the team who can create their own shot, Kawhi was the only one. Lowry is mostly a spot up shooter who does the occasional drive, Siakam mostly gets points off fast break or broken up plays. Kawhi carried the offense by himself all the way to a title as the only man who can create a shot anytime he wants! Russell was never close to being capable of something like this. Kawhi has also been on 1st place ranked defensive teams in his own right and has shut down MVP award winners. So overall, the gap on offense is bigger than the gap on defense.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Who's better - HBK's Kawhi or AUF's Kobe?

PC board's KG

Yeah I'm sick of this board overrating KG. Comparing KG to Duncan and some even put KG over Duncan, what a joke. That's much worse than me putting Kawhi over even MJ. That Colbinii guy is a Twolves fan so I get it there but the rest of the KG lovers should be ashamed of themselves. Jokic is 24 year old and already a better offensive player than KG ever was.

[Dr Spaceman]

I’m with you HBK I don’t understand why everyone thinks Westbrook is some legendary defender.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

I’m with you HBK I don’t understand why everyone thinks Westbrook is some legendary defender.

Westbrook? Is that some type of inside joke I missed. Its ok for us to have different views on players, everyone sees something differently. Looking at a girl at a bar I might think she's an 8 but you think she's a 10, all in the eyes of the beholder. KG is a great top 15-top 20 guy but when you start putting him above guys like Duncan than that's when it gets embarrassing is all I'm saying. Its funny how KG fans think Kobe fans overrate Kobe but than they turn their backs and do the same thing with overrating KG. Both Kobe and KG are clearly outside of top 10 and for whatever reason there fans think otherwise. Even in Boston, KG wasn't a go 2 scorer and he was only 31 years old. KG's longevity isn't anything special either, he was done by 2009. As far as peaks, people just put their favorites where they want to put them. Kawhi isn't even going to make top 25 peaks, what a tragedy.

[Dr Spaceman]

I’m with you HBK I don’t understand why everyone thinks Westbrook is some legendary defender.

Westbrook? Is that some type of inside joke I missed. Its ok for us to have different views on players, everyone sees something differently. Looking at a girl at a bar I might think she's an 8 but you think she's a 10, all in the eyes of the beholder. KG is a great top 15-top 20 guy but when you start putting him above guys like Duncan than that's when it gets embarrassing is all I'm saying. Its funny how KG fans think Kobe fans overrate Kobe but than they turn their backs and do the same thing with overrating KG. Both Kobe and KG are clearly outside of top 10 and for whatever reason there fans think otherwise. Even in Boston, KG wasn't a go 2 scorer and he was only 31 years old. KG's longevity isn't anything special either, he was done by 2009. As far as peaks, people just put their favorites where they want to put them. Kawhi isn't even going to make top 25 peaks, what a tragedy.

I’m saying that comparing Kawhi to Russell Westbrook makes more sense than comparing Kawhi to Bill Russell.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

I’m with you HBK I don’t understand why everyone thinks Westbrook is some legendary defender.

Westbrook? Is that some type of inside joke I missed. Its ok for us to have different views on players, everyone sees something differently. Looking at a girl at a bar I might think she's an 8 but you think she's a 10, all in the eyes of the beholder. KG is a great top 15-top 20 guy but when you start putting him above guys like Duncan than that's when it gets embarrassing is all I'm saying. Its funny how KG fans think Kobe fans overrate Kobe but than they turn their backs and do the same thing with overrating KG. Both Kobe and KG are clearly outside of top 10 and for whatever reason there fans think otherwise. Even in Boston, KG wasn't a go 2 scorer and he was only 31 years old. KG's longevity isn't anything special either, he was done by 2009. As far as peaks, people just put their favorites where they want to put them. Kawhi isn't even going to make top 25 peaks, what a tragedy.

I’m saying that comparing Kawhi to Russell Westbrook makes more sense than comparing Kawhi to Bill Russell.

Westbrook? You just compared the least efficient superstar and worst shot selection for a superstar to the most efficient and best shot selection for a superstar ever. I disagree with you and so does Paul George. I guess you predict clippers are a 1st round exit next year? Hot take on your part.

Bill Russell is Marcus Camby if Kawhi is Westbrook.

[70sFan]

Why it doesn't surprise me that only Jordan stan picks Kawhi here?

I mean, "the game has evolved" would also apply to Jordan,,.

That was the peak of the NBA. Russell played before modern era.

Because Jordan played then, right?

[70sFan]

Length? A big man to a SF? You want to play that game, Leonard is the better shooter and ball handler. The passing isn't huge, the scoring gap is huge. The offensive gap is bigger than the defense gap Do you see why Leonard is better now? Make sure you read the bold letters.

Why do you keep talking about offense when I replied about defense?

Scoring gap is huge, offensive gap is also big. Defensive gap is far bigger and you are the only one who can't get it.

Kawhi is not GOAT offensive player, he's very good volume scorer who can carry weaker teams but can't run elite offense because he's mediocre playmaker and he needs a lot of time to score. Russell is GOAT offensive player who can make your defense the best ever with average roster.

You can say all you want your bolded part, but you can't convince me with words alone. Show me some stats to back it up. Not individual scoring stats but how Kawhi improved offenses and makes them ATG ones. You won't show me that because that stats don't exist.

Meanwhile Russell anchored 4 best defensive teams of all time by rDRtg. He led the best defense in the league in 1958 and in 1969, both dominant by any margin. Not to mention that rDRtg actually decreases gap for smaller league, so the Celtics were actually more dominant than their numbers suggest.

Show me something tangible that would say Kawhi is better. Something different than scoring stats.

So far, you can look at poll results and think about it. Maybe, just maybe, you can be wrong? Because 40 people on PC Board are not Kawhi haters. Hell, I really like Kawhi. I hope that Clippers will win next year and I hope that Kawhi will build his legacy as an ATG player. But he's not close to GOAT candidate like Bill Russell and you are the only one who in this thread who fights against Bill.

Leading elite offensive teams is overrated if it doesn't translate to playoff success. Thats what makes KG as an offensive player overrated, his game didn't translate well to playoffs.

Spurs were a top 4 offensive team with Kawhi as there leading scorer in 2016, thats an elite offense. 2017 the offense declined a little bit because Aldridge didn't know how to adjust to being a sidekick. Look what Kawhi's teams have done so far as his teams best player:

2016: top 4 offense, 1st in defense, 2nd in SRS, 67 wins

2017: top 9 offense, 1st in defense. 2nd in SRS, 61 wins

2019: One of the best defensive playoff runs ever, champion.

They all have great success with him as the best player, he just didn't play with as much talent as Russell and wasn't with the same franchise his whole career. Raptors 2019 offense had nobody on the team who can create their own shot, Kawhi was the only one. Lowry is mostly a spot up shooter who does the occasional drive, Siakam mostly gets points off fast break or broken up plays. Kawhi carried the offense by himself all the way to a title as the only man who can create a shot anytime he wants! Russell was never close to being capable of something like this. Kawhi has also been on 1st place ranked defensive teams in his own right and has shut down MVP award winners. So overall, the gap on offense is bigger than the gap on defense.

That's not what I was asking for. Debate with you is meaningless at this point, feel free to be one agaisnt 50 other posters here (most of them with bigger knowledge than you).

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Why do you keep talking about offense when I replied about defense?

Scoring gap is huge, offensive gap is also big. Defensive gap is far bigger and you are the only one who can't get it.

Kawhi is not GOAT offensive player, he's very good volume scorer who can carry weaker teams but can't run elite offense because he's mediocre playmaker and he needs a lot of time to score. Russell is GOAT offensive player who can make your defense the best ever with average roster.

You can say all you want your bolded part, but you can't convince me with words alone. Show me some stats to back it up. Not individual scoring stats but how Kawhi improved offenses and makes them ATG ones. You won't show me that because that stats don't exist.

Meanwhile Russell anchored 4 best defensive teams of all time by rDRtg. He led the best defense in the league in 1958 and in 1969, both dominant by any margin. Not to mention that rDRtg actually decreases gap for smaller league, so the Celtics were actually more dominant than their numbers suggest.

Show me something tangible that would say Kawhi is better. Something different than scoring stats.

So far, you can look at poll results and think about it. Maybe, just maybe, you can be wrong? Because 40 people on PC Board are not Kawhi haters. Hell, I really like Kawhi. I hope that Clippers will win next year and I hope that Kawhi will build his legacy as an ATG player. But he's not close to GOAT candidate like Bill Russell and you are the only one who in this thread who fights against Bill.

Leading elite offensive teams is overrated if it doesn't translate to playoff success. Thats what makes KG as an offensive player overrated, his game didn't translate well to playoffs.

Spurs were a top 4 offensive team with Kawhi as there leading scorer in 2016, thats an elite offense. 2017 the offense declined a little bit because Aldridge didn't know how to adjust to being a sidekick. Look what Kawhi's teams have done so far as his teams best player:

2016: top 4 offense, 1st in defense, 2nd in SRS, 67 wins

2017: top 9 offense, 1st in defense. 2nd in SRS, 61 wins

2019: One of the best defensive playoff runs ever, champion.

They all have great success with him as the best player, he just didn't play with as much talent as Russell and wasn't with the same franchise his whole career. Raptors 2019 offense had nobody on the team who can create their own shot, Kawhi was the only one. Lowry is mostly a spot up shooter who does the occasional drive, Siakam mostly gets points off fast break or broken up plays. Kawhi carried the offense by himself all the way to a title as the only man who can create a shot anytime he wants! Russell was never close to being capable of something like this. Kawhi has also been on 1st place ranked defensive teams in his own right and has shut down MVP award winners. So overall, the gap on offense is bigger than the gap on defense.

That's not what I was asking for. Debate with you is meaningless at this point, feel free to be one agaisnt 50 other posters here (most of them with bigger knowledge than you).

You started the thread but there's been hot takes about Kawhi that don't add up, so the debate is not being fair. You will have to ask this same question again in about 7 years from now and than we will see. Right now, a lot of these guys are fan of Kawhi's rivals and they are bitter because Kawhi is still in his prime. Russell is long gone so they can cherish him more.

You pretending like Kawhi's teams aren't always elite is ignorance on your part.

he's very good volume scorer who can carry weaker teams but can't run elite offense because he's mediocre playmaker and he needs a lot of time to score

Needs a lot of time to score? I've seen Leonard score plenty on spot up jumpers while being set up or cutting or on the fast break. Leonard doesn't hold the ball in his hands nearly as much as a Harden or Lebron but is still the better scorer because his shot selection and efficiency. Leonard's teams in his prime are either top 2 in SRS or win the championship, it seems like Kawhi as a teams offense and defensive anchor is pretty damn successful and even more successful in the playoffs.

[Franco]

“Kawhi’s team” still made the playoffs without him, and that was before trading for DeRozan. They might even have been a higher seed if Parker wasn’t injured too

The Spurs weren’t centered around Kawhi in 2016. That’s ludicrous.

[Franco]

Length? A big man to a SF? You want to play that game, Leonard is the better shooter and ball handler. The passing isn't huge, the scoring gap is huge. The offensive gap is bigger than the defense gap Do you see why Leonard is better now? Make sure you read the bold letters.

Why do you keep talking about offense when I replied about defense?

Scoring gap is huge, offensive gap is also big. Defensive gap is far bigger and you are the only one who can't get it.

Kawhi is not GOAT offensive player, he's very good volume scorer who can carry weaker teams but can't run elite offense because he's mediocre playmaker and he needs a lot of time to score. Russell is GOAT offensive player who can make your defense the best ever with average roster.

You can say all you want your bolded part, but you can't convince me with words alone. Show me some stats to back it up. Not individual scoring stats but how Kawhi improved offenses and makes them ATG ones. You won't show me that because that stats don't exist.

Meanwhile Russell anchored 4 best defensive teams of all time by rDRtg. He led the best defense in the league in 1958 and in 1969, both dominant by any margin. Not to mention that rDRtg actually decreases gap for smaller league, so the Celtics were actually more dominant than their numbers suggest.

Show me something tangible that would say Kawhi is better. Something different than scoring stats.

So far, you can look at poll results and think about it. Maybe, just maybe, you can be wrong? Because 40 people on PC Board are not Kawhi haters. Hell, I really like Kawhi. I hope that Clippers will win next year and I hope that Kawhi will build his legacy as an ATG player. But he's not close to GOAT candidate like Bill Russell and you are the only one who in this thread who fights against Bill.

Leading elite offensive teams is overrated if it doesn't translate to playoff success. Thats what makes KG as an offensive player overrated, his game didn't translate well to playoffs.

Spurs were a top 4 offensive team with Kawhi as there leading scorer in 2016, thats an elite offense. 2017 the offense declined a little bit because Aldridge didn't know how to adjust to being a sidekick. Look what Kawhi's teams have done so far as his teams best player:

2016: top 4 offense, 1st in defense, 2nd in SRS, 67 wins

2017: top 9 offense, 1st in defense. 2nd in SRS, 61 wins

2019: One of the best defensive playoff runs ever, champion.

They all have great success with him as the best player, he just didn't play with as much talent as Russell and wasn't with the same franchise his whole career. Raptors 2019 offense had nobody on the team who can create their own shot, Kawhi was the only one. Lowry is mostly a spot up shooter who does the occasional drive, Siakam mostly gets points off fast break or broken up plays. Kawhi carried the offense by himself all the way to a title as the only man who can create a shot anytime he wants! Russell was never close to being capable of something like this. Kawhi has also been on 1st place ranked defensive teams in his own right and has shut down MVP award winners. So overall, the gap on offense is bigger than the gap on defense.

Cool! Let’s compare it to Russell’s teams:

1957 - Champions
1959 - Champions
1960 - Champions
1961 - Champions
1962 - Champions
1963 - Champions
1964 - Champions
1965 - Champions
1966 - Champions
1967 - 1st ranked Defense, 2nd in SRS, 60 wins
1968 - Champions
1969 - Champions

[HBK_Kliq_33]

“Kawhi’s team” still made the playoffs without him, and that was before trading for DeRozan. They might even have been a higher seed if Parker wasn’t injured too

The Spurs weren’t centered around Kawhi in 2016. That’s ludicrous.

47 wins and about 5 of those wins were because of Kawhi. They were a 42 win team in 2018 without Kawhi, so they dropped 19 wins. That's a pretty big gap. The offense also went from 9th to 17th without Kawhi.

2016 Kawhi had one of the greatest defensive seasons ever and had nearly 3 blocks a game in the 1st round, he was also the teams leading scorer. Kawhi's BPM that season was 8.3 and Aldridge was 1.8 hahaha. You're a cavs fan and should know a soft star player when you see one (Kevin Love) and trust me Aldridge is no different. Kawhi was by far the teams best player, you're delusional. You are exactly what I'm talking about, you are mad at Kawhi because you know Kawhi is about to wipe the floor with your hero Lebron's old ass.

Watch on YouTube

[

Kawhi effortlessly destroy Lebron 2 years ago, imagine what he's going to do to him now.

[Samurai]

“Kawhi’s team” still made the playoffs without him, and that was before trading for DeRozan. They might even have been a higher seed if Parker wasn’t injured too

The Spurs weren’t centered around Kawhi in 2016. That’s ludicrous.

Shhhh. Can't bring up facts that do not support a biased agenda. People might think you are using logic instead of prejudice and emotions!

[HBK_Kliq_33]

“Kawhi’s team” still made the playoffs without him, and that was before trading for DeRozan. They might even have been a higher seed if Parker wasn’t injured too

The Spurs weren’t centered around Kawhi in 2016. That’s ludicrous.

Shhhh. Can't bring up facts that do not support a biased agenda. People might think you are using logic instead of prejudice and emotions!

Leonard won finals MVP and defensive player of the year in his pre prime.

Than in his prime he won another defensive player of the year and finals mvp while also leading his team to top 2 in SRS and scoring 732 points on 62% TS in the playoffs. You can't really ask much more from the guy beside don't get cheap shot by Zaza. Now he's finally playing with another superstar who isn't soft like Lamarcus? The NBA needs to watch out.

[Franco]

“Kawhi’s team” still made the playoffs without him, and that was before trading for DeRozan. They might even have been a higher seed if Parker wasn’t injured too

The Spurs weren’t centered around Kawhi in 2016. That’s ludicrous.

47 wins and about 5 of those wins were because of Kawhi. They were a 42 win team in 2018 without Kawhi, so they dropped 19 wins. That's a pretty big gap. The offense also went from 9th to 17th without Kawhi.

The Spurs went 5-4 on the 9 games Kawhi played that season. Please tell me how Kawhi's 17 minutes against the Clippers were the reason they blew them out by 18, or how a 32 point obliteration of the Nuggets would be lost without Kawhi's 27 minutes.

2016 Kawhi had one of the greatest defensive seasons ever

For a forward.

and had nearly 3 blocks a game in the 1st round, he was also the teams leading scorer.

Why pick the 1st round against an opponent that the Spurs overall overwhelmed? The games weren't even close, Memphis got spanked from start to finish in a brutal sweep.

Kawhi's BPM that season was 8.3 and Aldridge was 1.8 hahaha

Nice picking the 7th highest BPM of the team to make a point

Kawhi was the best player on the team, it wasn't an overwhelming margin. SAS had 3 players in top 20 RPM, 4 of the top 25, and 5 of the top 40.

You're a cavs fan and should know a soft star player when you see one (Kevin Love) and trust me Aldridge is no different. Kawhi was by far the teams best player, you're delusional.

Kawhi sure was being by far the best player over "soft Aldridge" when they were losing a game by one point, where LMA dropped 41 on OKC's head on 15/21 from the field and 10/10 from the line,
while Kawhi was getting roasted by KD and scoring 14 points on 18 shots.

My point is exactly that Kawhi was the best player on the team the team, but in no way was it “by far and away”

You are exactly what I'm talking about, you are mad at Kawhi because you know Kawhi is about to wipe the floor with your hero Lebron's old ass.

You think I give a flying **** about what Kawhi does or doesn’t do against LeBron in LAL? Kawhi was barely ever in my mind as a fan, because he never went up against us in the playoffs. What he does as long as it isn’t beating Cleveland is none of my business.

You are exactly the salty Kawhi stand that will be the laughing stock of the PC Board for next year, this has happened before. You’re just next in line

Watch on YouTube

Kawhi effortlessly destroy Lebron 2 years ago, imagine what he's going to do to him now.

It would’ve been good for him to effortlessly destroy KD too, considering that was his best shot at even getting to LeBron in the first place.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

“Kawhi’s team” still made the playoffs without him, and that was before trading for DeRozan. They might even have been a higher seed if Parker wasn’t injured too

The Spurs weren’t centered around Kawhi in 2016. That’s ludicrous.

47 wins and about 5 of those wins were because of Kawhi. They were a 42 win team in 2018 without Kawhi, so they dropped 19 wins. That's a pretty big gap. The offense also went from 9th to 17th without Kawhi.

The Spurs went 5-4 on the 9 games Kawhi played that season. Please tell me how Kawhi's 17 minutes against the Clippers were the reason they blew them out by 18, or how a 32 point obliteration of the Nuggets would be lost without Kawhi's 27 minutes.

2016 Kawhi had one of the greatest defensive seasons ever

For a forward.

and had nearly 3 blocks a game in the 1st round, he was also the teams leading scorer.

Why pick the 1st round against an opponent that the Spurs overall overwhelmed? The games weren't even close, Memphis got spanked from start to finish in a brutal sweep.

Kawhi's BPM that season was 8.3 and Aldridge was 1.8 hahaha

Nice picking the 7th highest BPM of the team to make a point

Kawhi was the best player on the team, it wasn't an overwhelming margin. SAS had 3 players in top 20 RPM, 4 of the top 25, and 5 of the top 40.

You're a cavs fan and should know a soft star player when you see one (Kevin Love) and trust me Aldridge is no different. Kawhi was by far the teams best player, you're delusional.

Kawhi sure was being by far the best player over "soft Aldridge" when they were losing a game by one point, where LMA dropped 41 on OKC's head on 15/21 from the field and 10/10 from the line,
while Kawhi was getting roasted by KD and scoring 14 points on 18 shots.

My point is exactly that Kawhi was the best player on the team the team, but in no way was it “by far and away”

You are exactly what I'm talking about, you are mad at Kawhi because you know Kawhi is about to wipe the floor with your hero Lebron's old ass.

You think I give a flying **** about what Kawhi does or doesn’t do against LeBron in LAL? Kawhi was barely ever in my mind as a fan, because he never went up against us in the playoffs. What he does as long as it isn’t beating Cleveland is none of my business.

You are exactly the salty Kawhi stand that will be the laughing stock of the PC Board for next year, this has happened before. You’re just next in line

Watch on YouTube

Kawhi effortlessly destroy Lebron 2 years ago, imagine what he's going to do to him now.

It would’ve been good for him to effortlessly destroy KD too, considering that was his best shot at even getting to LeBron in the first place.

Spurs won 67 games and 61 games in Leonard's 2 prime years with him only playing 72 games. If Leonard played all 82 games? We are looking at 70 win and 65 win teams. The gap on that and spurs 2018 below 45 win team is still pretty big. Any team that prime Leonard plays at least 70 games in is winning between 61-67 and imagine if he plays 82 games? Probably in the 70 win range and thats what I expect this year or next year from him.

You laugh at Lamarcus being the 7th highest BPM but than you argue he wasn't carried by Kawhi? Thats contradicting yourself. Kawhi carried his ass to 60 wins

2016 was Kawhi's first year as a go 2 guy first option scorer and he was hardly even outplayed by Durant, that's pretty sad on Durant's part if you think about it. Durant already had 5 seasons of playoff experience as the number one guy.

Kawhi in 2016 vs thunder: 23 points 48/28/75 splits

Durant in 2016 vs spurs: 28 points on 50/29/89 splits

All Durant did was shoot free throws better! So your claim to bragging about Durant out playing Kawhi is really just "he shot better free throws". Again, sad on Durant's part considering that was Kawhi's 1st year as a 1st option. On top of that, the gap on Westbrook and Lamarcus is huge. Go check Lamarcus playoff scoring efficiency, it drops pretty much every year. I know soft when I see one and thats Lamarcus.

2017 is when Duncan finally left and when Leonard made that next jump offensively, since than nobody has been able to stop him. Pair that with leading his team in rebounds, guarding MVPS, being the best offensive closer better than anybody besides arguably LeBron since 2000.

[HeartBreakKid]

Kawhi is a better player, Russell has a better legacy.

Why it doesn't surprise me that only Jordan stan picks Kawhi here?

I mean, "the game has evolved" would also apply to Jordan,,.

No way, 1988 was just like yesterday!

[Samurai]

With current voting at 41-5 in favor of Russell, I think this question of who had the better peak between Russ and Kawhi has been definitively answered. Although it could have been answered just by looking at how far apart their selections in the current GOAT Peaks Project are.