2022-23 RealGM All-Season Awards - Discussion Thread

rk2023 · Post #61 » by **rk2023** » Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:53 pm

How keen do you all feel on Quickley as the 6 MOY front-runner now? He has decently surpassed Brogdon per the accounts of various Sporting Books.

Am cool with the selection myself and think stats & film validate such. With how favored Brogdon was at first, goes to show how much of a marathon the 82 game year is.

Colbinii · Post #62 » by **Colbinii** » Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:56 pm

rk2023 wrote:How keen do you all feel on Quickley as the 6 MOY front-runner now? He has decently surpassed Brogdon per the accounts of various Sporting Books.

Am cool with the selection myself and think stats & film validate such. With how favored Brogdon was at first, goes to show how much of a marathon the 82 game year is.

It is a bit difficult to assess Quickley because his big games have been as a starter.

RCM88x · Post #63 » by **RCM88x** » Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:19 pm

Colbinii wrote:
rk2023 wrote:How keen do you all feel on Quickley as the 6 MOY front-runner now? He has decently surpassed Brogdon per the accounts of various Sporting Books.

Am cool with the selection myself and think stats & film validate such. With how favored Brogdon was at first, goes to show how much of a marathon the 82 game year is.

It is a bit difficult to assess Quickley because his big games have been as a starter.

Here are his splits:

Starter: 17 GM, 60 TS%, 20.9 USG, 39.2 MPG, 21.1/5.2/5/1stl/1tov
Reserve: 58 GM, 56 TS%, 20.1 USG, 25.4 MPG, 12/3.8/2.8/0.9stl/1.1tov

Granted 6MOY doesn't mean a player has to exclusively come off the bench but he's a entirely different player at this point than earlier in the season when he was a non starter.

Post #64 » by **Doctor MJ** » Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:17 pm

Colbinii wrote:
rk2023 wrote:How keen do you all feel on Quickley as the 6 MOY front-runner now? He has decently surpassed Brogdon per the accounts of various Sporting Books.

Am cool with the selection myself and think stats & film validate such. With how favored Brogdon was at first, goes to show how much of a marathon the 82 game year is.

It is a bit difficult to assess Quickley because his big games have been as a starter.

So, I've actually been monitoring Quickley since his rookie year because of his consistent ability to lead the Knicks in +/-.

If the year finishes up with the ordering we have now, Quickley will have led the Knicks in +/- in all 3 years of his career, and for all our records going back to '93-94, there have only been 2 other guys who have done this in their first 3 years:

Nikola Jokic
Joel Embiid

Impressive company to say the least.

Now of course, Quickley's been a bench guy the entire time, and played in limited minutes the first couple years, so I'm not looking to say that Quickley should be considered a star. But I would say:

1. In general we're not talking about a guy whose most noteworthy thing is that he had a big game as a starter, we're talking about someone remarkably consistent in his ability to put up better +/- than the starters on his team, and on that alone, I think people should take very seriously the idea that he should be 6MOY.

2. Part of what's going on here is Quickley's defensive capabilities, which as a guard doesn't always grab attention.

3. While I don't say that a coach is making a mistake just because a guy keeps doing great off the bench but isn't made a starter, and I feel foolish saying that Thibs doesn't recognize a defensive stud he should ride, I do think we need to ask ourselves whether the Knicks have actually understood what they have in Quickley when this summer they went after not one but two new guards in Brunson & Mitchell. While both those guys are so talented you can certainly argue they are worth it even with the skill overlap, if it turns out that Quickley is someone who can cover up for the defensive shortcomings of his back court mate and can also be pretty good leading the offense in his own right, man, are the Knicks fortunate given how little opportunity they gave him before.

Back to the 6MOY race, I have Quickley as an extremely strong candidate, and if Caruso ceases to be eligible at seasons end, I don't know if I'd have any real debate for a regular season award (playoffs can change the All-Season awards of course).

Colbinii · Post #65 » by **Colbinii** » Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:21 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
rk2023 wrote:How keen do you all feel on Quickley as the 6 MOY front-runner now? He has decently surpassed Brogdon per the accounts of various Sporting Books.

Am cool with the selection myself and think stats & film validate such. With how favored Brogdon was at first, goes to show how much of a marathon the 82 game year is.

It is a bit difficult to assess Quickley because his big games have been as a starter.

So, I've actually been monitoring Quickley since his rookie year because of his consistent ability to lead the Knicks in +/-.

If the year finishes up with the ordering we have now, Quickley will have led the Knicks in +/- in all 3 years of his career, and for all our records going back to '93-94, there have only been 2 other guys who have done this in their first 3 years:

Nikola Jokic
Joel Embiid

Impressive company to say the least.

Now of course, Quickley's been a bench guy the entire time, and played in limited minutes the first couple years, so I'm not looking to say that Quickley should be considered a star. But I would say:

1. In general we're not talking about a guy whose most noteworthy thing is that he had a big game as a starter, we're talking about someone remarkably consistent in his ability to put up better +/- than the starters on his team, and on that alone, I think people should take very seriously the idea that he should be 6MOY.

2. Part of what's going on here is Quickley's defensive capabilities, which as a guard doesn't always grab attention.

3. While I don't say that a coach is making a mistake just because a guy keeps doing great off the bench but isn't made a starter, and I feel foolish saying that Thibs doesn't recognize a defensive stud he should ride, I do think we need to ask ourselves whether the Knicks have actually understood what they have in Quickley when this summer they went after not one but two new guards in Brunson & Mitchell. While both those guys are so talented you can certainly argue they are worth it even with the skill overlap, if it turns out that Quickley is someone who can cover up for the defensive shortcomings of his back court mate and can also be pretty good leading the offense in his own right, man, are the Knicks fortunate given how little opportunity they gave him before.

Back to the 6MOY race, I have Quickley as an extremely strong candidate, and if Caruso ceases to be eligible at seasons end, I don't know if I'd have any real debate for a regular season award (playoffs can change the All-Season awards of course).

Eminence and I are both high on Quickley and have been for some time. He has been a +/- darling for 3 years now, and outside of his awkward looking shot, has been a supped up version of Monte Morris.

I am really hoping we see the Knicks making the 2nd round and Quickley playing 30+ MPG for them in them in the Post-Season.

The Knicks actually went after 3 guards--Josh Hart [How he is listed at 6' 5" I don't know].

Dutchball97 · Post #66 » by **Dutchball97** » Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:32 pm

I'd agree Quickley is the leader for the 6MOY award with Caruso being unlikely to be eligible. However, even if Caruso only came off the bench from now on and made the cut, I'd still take Quickley over him at the moment. Statistically it's close but being on a significantly better team and playing about 15 more games are important factors in favor of Quickley.

The next best guy to me is Onyeka Okongwu, followed by Brogdon, Tyus Jones, Christian Wood and Bobby Portis. The guys on the top teams are at an advantage though if they can play an important role in the play-offs. Btw, would starting more than half the games of a post-season run disqualify a player from the 6MOY race or would it be fine as long as the total games started in the season is still less than half of total games played?

rk2023 · Post #67 » by **rk2023** » Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:34 pm

Colbinii wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
It is a bit difficult to assess Quickley because his big games have been as a starter.

So, I've actually been monitoring Quickley since his rookie year because of his consistent ability to lead the Knicks in +/-.

If the year finishes up with the ordering we have now, Quickley will have led the Knicks in +/- in all 3 years of his career, and for all our records going back to '93-94, there have only been 2 other guys who have done this in their first 3 years:

Nikola Jokic
Joel Embiid

Impressive company to say the least.

Now of course, Quickley's been a bench guy the entire time, and played in limited minutes the first couple years, so I'm not looking to say that Quickley should be considered a star. But I would say:

1. In general we're not talking about a guy whose most noteworthy thing is that he had a big game as a starter, we're talking about someone remarkably consistent in his ability to put up better +/- than the starters on his team, and on that alone, I think people should take very seriously the idea that he should be 6MOY.

2. Part of what's going on here is Quickley's defensive capabilities, which as a guard doesn't always grab attention.

3. While I don't say that a coach is making a mistake just because a guy keeps doing great off the bench but isn't made a starter, and I feel foolish saying that Thibs doesn't recognize a defensive stud he should ride, I do think we need to ask ourselves whether the Knicks have actually understood what they have in Quickley when this summer they went after not one but two new guards in Brunson & Mitchell. While both those guys are so talented you can certainly argue they are worth it even with the skill overlap, if it turns out that Quickley is someone who can cover up for the defensive shortcomings of his back court mate and can also be pretty good leading the offense in his own right, man, are the Knicks fortunate given how little opportunity they gave him before.

Back to the 6MOY race, I have Quickley as an extremely strong candidate, and if Caruso ceases to be eligible at seasons end, I don't know if I'd have any real debate for a regular season award (playoffs can change the All-Season awards of course).

Eminence and I are both high on Quickley and have been for some time. He has been a +/- darling for 3 years now, and outside of his awkward looking shot, has been a supped up version of Monte Morris.

I am really hoping we see the Knicks making the 2nd round and Quickley playing 30+ MPG for them in them in the Post-Season.

The Knicks actually went after 3 guards--Josh Hart [How he is listed at 6' 5" I don't know].

Regarding Hart (along with other transactions), it's still too early for me to have thought of answers.. but the Knicks Scott Perry (or Leon Rose, unsure who calls the shots) is high on my radar for EOTY.

Getting rid of some older players (Walker, Noel) I see as addition through subtraction to begin with, on top of signing Brunson with the prospect of a larger lead-creator role & adding Hartenstein as a backup big both very much impress me. Not to mention trading for Josh Hart (whom I have always admired from a role-player standpoint) and the overall roster construction mindset of a younger, grittier team that is top 7 in SRS/Net and top 5 offensively.

Colbinii · Post #68 » by **Colbinii** » Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:57 pm

Dutchball97 wrote:I'd agree Quickley is the leader for the 6MOY award with Caruso being unlikely to be eligible. However, even if Caruso only came off the bench from now on and made the cut, I'd still take Quickley over him at the moment. Statistically it's close but being on a significantly better team and playing about 15 more games are important factors in favor of Quickley.

The next best guy to me is Onyeka Okongwu, followed by Brogdon, Tyus Jones, Christian Wood and Bobby Portis. The guys on the top teams are at an advantage though if they can play an important role in the play-offs. Btw, would starting more than half the games of a post-season run disqualify a player from the 6MOY race or would it be fine as long as the total games started in the season is still less than half of total games played?

If a player is starting a majority of their minutes in the post-season then it would be a case-by-case basis as to if I choose them or not.

How about Naz Reid?

Has filled in big time for KAT who missed 52 games this season. 11/5/1 with efficient scoring [47.9 TS+ & 68.3 FG+]

Dutchball97 · Post #69 » by **Dutchball97** » Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:07 pm

Colbinii wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:I'd agree Quickley is the leader for the 6MOY award with Caruso being unlikely to be eligible. However, even if Caruso only came off the bench from now on and made the cut, I'd still take Quickley over him at the moment. Statistically it's close but being on a significantly better team and playing about 15 more games are important factors in favor of Quickley.

The next best guy to me is Onyeka Okongwu, followed by Brogdon, Tyus Jones, Christian Wood and Bobby Portis. The guys on the top teams are at an advantage though if they can play an important role in the play-offs. Btw, would starting more than half the games of a post-season run disqualify a player from the 6MOY race or would it be fine as long as the total games started in the season is still less than half of total games played?

If a player is starting a majority of their minutes in the post-season then it would be a case-by-case basis as to if I choose them or not.

How about Naz Reid?

Has filled in big time for KAT who missed 52 games this season. 11/5/1 with efficient scoring [47.9 TS+ & 68.3 FG+]

Yeah I think Naz Reid probably comes right after Portis for me although I don't think it's very likely he'll have a strong enough post-season to make his way into my top 3. His 18 MPG is already not very high but if the Wolves were to have a deep play-off run they'll probably need Gobert and KAT playing big minutes, which lowers the chance for Reid to have a major impact there.

AEnigma · Post #70 » by **AEnigma** » Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:08 pm

Thought about putting out my all-NBA teams seeing as they are not part of this process but are ostensibly connected as a thought exercise.

Centres: Jokic (1), Embiid (2), and Sabonis (3). Davis first cut because of missed games; better than Sabonis, yes, but in the regular season, he is not better by enough to make up a deficit of a thousand minutes.
Forwards: Giannis (1a; should be unanimous), Tatum (1b), Butler (2), Siakam (2), Lebron (3), Kawhi (3). Next cuts were Durant, George, and JJJ EDIT: Draymond, who quietly fared well when Curry missed time and who comfortable outpaced all these fringe names in minutes played.
Guards: Top three are Steph, Luka, and Lillard, but unsure of the order. Next two are Mitchell and Shai, again unsure of order. Final spot goes to either Jrue or Harden, although I am slightly inclined toward Jrue for minutes played and presence on a better team and better lineups. Ja rounds out the unofficial fourth team and I expect will make the real team above both Jrue and Harden.

Post #71 » by **cupcakesnake** » Sat Apr 1, 2023 12:48 am

AEnigma wrote:Thought about putting out my all-NBA teams seeing as they are not part of this process but are ostensibly connected as a thought exercise.

Centres: Jokic (1), Embiid (2), and Sabonis (3). Davis first cut because of missed games; better than Sabonis, yes, but in the regular season, he is not better by enough to make up a deficit of a thousand minutes.
Forwards: Giannis (1a; should be unanimous), Tatum (1b), Butler (2), Siakam (2), Lebron (3), Kawhi (3). Next cuts were Durant, George, and JJJ.
Guards: Top three are Steph, Luka, and Lillard, but unsure of the order. Next two are Mitchell and Shai, again unsure of order. Final spot goes to either Jrue or Harden, although I am slightly inclined toward Jrue for minutes played and presence on a better team and better lineups. Ja rounds out the unofficial fourth team and I expect will make the real team above both Jrue and Harden.

I feel like with guards you might as well throw 10 names in a hat and pick 6 out and it will probably be reasonable enough.

I have Shai over Lillard, and then a slight drop-off to Mitchell. I'd really like to put Jrue on an all-NBA team but fighting for that is Ja, Harden, Garland, Brunson, and Fox. Then there's still Ant, Booker, Bane, Haliburton, Jaylen Brown*. It's a wild year for guards.

rk2023 · Post #72 » by **rk2023** » Sat Apr 1, 2023 4:36 am

I am at complete crossroads regarding All-NBA teams at the moment, it's muddy due to how many players have been in and out - talented players and superstars that too. Once a final game count of everyone is had in a week from now, perhaps it becomes more clear what my D.I.Y. ballot looks like.

AEnigma · Post #73 » by **AEnigma** » Sun Apr 2, 2023 11:54 pm

Shaedon Sharpe just might sneak in at #3 on my rookie list. :lol:

Probably not something I will do. But for anyone making a list off which rookie you think will become the best player…

Colbinii · Post #74 » by **Colbinii** » Mon Apr 3, 2023 1:52 am

AEnigma wrote:Shaedon Sharpe just might sneak in at #3 on my rookie list.

Probably not something I will do. But for anyone making a list off which rookie you think will become the best player…

Ahead of who?

Post #75 » by **zimpy27** » Mon Apr 3, 2023 8:20 am

All-NBA
1st - Lillard, Mitchell, Tatum, Giannis, Embiid
2nd - Doncic, SGA, Butler, LeBron, Jokic
3rd - Ja, Curry, Durant, Davis, Sabonis

MyUniBroDavis · Post #76 » by **MyUniBroDavis** » Mon Apr 3, 2023 8:26 am

zimpy27 wrote:All-NBA
1st - Lillard, Mitchell, Tatum, Giannis, Embiid
2nd - Doncic, SGA, Butler, LeBron, Jokic
3rd - Ja, Curry, Durant, Davis, Sabonis

Fox HAS to be there lol

Post #77 » by **zimpy27** » Mon Apr 3, 2023 9:06 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:All-NBA
1st - Lillard, Mitchell, Tatum, Giannis, Embiid
2nd - Doncic, SGA, Butler, LeBron, Jokic
3rd - Ja, Curry, Durant, Davis, Sabonis

Fox HAS to be there lol

Fox or Sabonis?

Neither have better box score stats nor impact stats to get in alone without their team seeding. I think only one gets in to All-NBA and I chose Sabonis.

Colbinii · Post #78 » by **Colbinii** » Mon Apr 3, 2023 12:24 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:All-NBA
1st - Lillard, Mitchell, Tatum, Giannis, Embiid
2nd - Doncic, SGA, Butler, LeBron, Jokic
3rd - Ja, Curry, Durant, Davis, Sabonis

Fox HAS to be there lol

Fox ranks 14th out of all guards in OBPM
Fox ranks 12th out of all guards in TS+
His On-Court +/- of +2.0 is extremely mediocre for a player on a 50-win team [ranks 70th in the NBA in Total +/- at +137]

AEnigma · Post #79 » by **AEnigma** » Mon Apr 3, 2023 2:19 pm

Colbinii wrote:
AEnigma wrote:Shaedon Sharpe just might sneak in at #3 on my rookie list.

Probably not something I will do. But for anyone making a list off which rookie you think will become the best player…

Ahead of who?

No one, but it does not drive discussion if I said I would move him to fourth (and therefore still off my ballot) over Keegan Murray. :wink:

Colbinii · Post #80 » by **Colbinii** » Mon Apr 3, 2023 2:29 pm

AEnigma wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
AEnigma wrote:Shaedon Sharpe just might sneak in at #3 on my rookie list.

Probably not something I will do. But for anyone making a list off which rookie you think will become the best player…

Ahead of who?

No one, but it does not drive discussion if I said I would move him to fourth (and therefore still off my ballot) over Keegan Murray.

I think Sharpe vs Eason is a good comparison.

I have a hard time anyone cracking the Top 4 of Mathurin/Banchero/Jalen Williams/Kessler but Sharpe has been tremendous since starting for the Blazers.

Eason would be getting a lot more buzz if he wasn't on the catastrophe known as the Houston Rockets :lol:

While an older prospect, Eason is already a two-way guy and Eminence was really high on him pre-draft.

eminence wrote:Tari Eason

How do you assess Eason so far?