Anthony "Magic" Randolph vs. Blake "GETACHA BOI" Griffin

[FNQ]

Almost every W's fan sees the added weight relative to early in the season... my post was about someone who obviously didnt watch enough to compare the before/after trying to mock people who actually see the weight... it brought nothing to the conversation except the attempt to mock, and to be honest, looks downright foolish due to the obvious weight he added on.

Does he still look thin? Of course... he's still 6'10 and 210-220. But he's got definition and added muscle around the arms/shoulders/chest. People who watched can tell the difference w/ease.

[turk3d]

AR had reportedly gained 20 lbs over the course of the season after initially weighing in at 195, ...

Math skills for the loss fellas The W's officially weighed him at 197 before the season though, so between 215-220 is the average for now. Of course, it all means nothing up until August, when we see if he's maintained or even improved his weight... or lost it.

He gained a lot of noticable weight, and the way most W's fans could tell, was because BW remained the 'before' picture... BW came in weighing 205 and would be lucky to still hit that. AR came in like a stick figure and by seasons' end looked noticably thicker and was much more willing to take contact...

LOL at people that think Randolph gained 20 pounds

Valuable contribution... anyone who saw AR in the beginning of the season as compared to the end could easily spot it... but you have to love fans who obviously havent seen AR's game, period, who are commenting on his game and weight... is there no criteria here? All I have to do on the PC board is pick a player, look at their negatives and positives from draft capsules, and just assume based on how I feel that day?

I didn't even comment on him as a player, I'm just laughing at the people trying to convince themselves that this toothpick gained 20 pounds, yet we can't even see it really at all.

20 pounds would be extremely noticeable, hell, it's noticeable on LeBron and he was much much bigger.

You can gain weight and not look bigger depending on how you lift. The reason is that muscle is much less dense than fat is and therefore fat will take up more volume. Getting rid of fat and adding muscle will not necessarily give the appearance of getting bigger (since muscle will take up less volume). In a sense, you could say that muscle weighs more than fat (if you had the equivalent volumes). So appearance can be somewhat misleading.

Many professional athletes do not lift to "bulk up" (especially basketball players who want to keep their agility and their quickness). Diet also plays a critical role in weight training. I'm sure FNQ can explain this in more detail, as he's a professional in this. The one area that I noticed he's not weak is in fact his shoulders (which someone claimed was). He definitely got bigger in the second half and he's fearless when it comes to playing in the paint. Just ask Yao, Shaq and a few others who he "mean-mugged" during the season.


http://www.onemorebite-weightloss.com/m ... o-fat.html

I'd have to say right now though that Griffin is the safer pick. But that doesn't diminish in any way what Randolph appears to offer.

[GswStorm3]

Randolph has a much higher ceiling than Griffin offensively and the comparison isn't even close defensively. If Randolph stayed another at LSU he would've easily been a top 3 pick in this years draft class.

[Star-Lord]

First of all, that nickname the author of this thread gave Anthony is straight blasphemy. There is only one Magic, and it ain't Anthony. Good lord, is that ridiculous.

As for the comparison, it's interesting, but not really possible to decide on unless you're into conjecture. I suppose that at this point in time it really comes down to personal preference. Would you rather have a versatile forward with some very intriguing skills and a seemingly limitless upside, or would you rather have someone who's more of a true post player with elite athleticism and a hunger to be better than everyone else?

There's no doubt in my mind that if both stay the course, they'll both be perennial All-Stars.

[turk3d]

The guy is skilled, long and athletic. It's possible he bulks up and becomes a good player, but I'm very wary of players with obvious flaws (such as his extremely frail frame) who do well in Golden State's weird, unstructured system. It's the same way I really didn't believe the hype with Brandan Wright or Marco Belinelli. I remember GS fans touting these guys as future stars at various points last season, and surprise surprise, nobody talks about them anymore. Stats on this team are almost meaningless. I am really supposed to believe that Stephen Jackson is a way better player than Paul Pierce, because he puts up better stats in GS? Am I supposed to believe that Anthony Morrow is a young Ray Allen? Or that Andris Biedrins is a comparable rebounder to Dwight Howard (13.4 R/36 for Biedrins, 13.9 R/36 for Howard)? The fact is that TONNES of bad players put up good stats on GS, and look good on the court, because they're allowed to do whatever they want, and have inflated stats due to playing at the fastest pace in the league. It's like how players like Patrick Mills and Carlos Arroyo look great when playing for Australia/Puerto Rico - when you play with garbage players, SOMEBODY has to step up, so you look like a star, but you're really nothing special on a good team.

Great post. I don't think anyone is denying his talent, but it just gets old when the GS fans hype every prospect up as the next coming of MJ. It is way premature to say he has superstar potential because he has been putting up decent stats on a team 25-30 games under .500 and on a team that plays perfectly to his strengths. I personally think he should be the 3rd/4th best player on a championship team. I think he's going to be one of those players that does alot good but does little great. He seems like more of a very good role player that will make 1-2 or so all-stars games.

Sounds to me like you're talking about Kevan Durant. If anything Nellie tried to play most of the season away from Randolph's strengths by playing smaller guys at the 4 position where AR eventually excelled (when Nellie was forced to play him consistently due to all the injuries we had at the end of the season). Magic not, but very exciting and potentially elite player, yes.

[conleyorbust]

Shelden williams was ~12-12-1.2 on 60% for his last 8 games of his rookie season. Many Hawks fans said that it was because Woody "was finally starting him at center!!!" and that was the difference between that Shelden and the marginal one.

Now, Anthony has a lot more potential than Shel and for a variety of reasons -- but that was a slow team with no offensive structure and Shelden could still put up numbers once the season didn't matter.

As far as Blake Griffin goes, people like him because he's a freak. He can jump, he's strong as hell, he's got long arms, and he has massive hands. If raw athleticism and physical ability go a ways towards determining "potential" well, he's definitely got it. We'll see at the combine whether he's 6'8 or whether he's 6'10 but there is no point in saying that he's not what hes' listed at until we know because its impossible to tell from just looking at him.

[FNQ]

Shelden williams was ~12-12-1.2 on 60% for his last 8 games of his rookie season. Many Hawks fans said that it was because Woody "was finally starting him at center!!!" and that was the difference between that Shelden and the marginal one.

The difference is that AR played as well in April as he did all season... its just that in April, Don Nelson had very limited options on who to play and had management trying to pressure him into playing AR. Its not that AR was ineffective much at all during the season... its that Nellie yanked him for every little mistake while D-leaguers were allowed to play iso-chuck-ball at will...

AR's p/40 #s were better during the season against real competition than in the end of the season against bad competition... I'm no believer in the p/40s, but what that means to me is that he was playing at a just-as-high level (at minimum) earlier in the year... the kid IS good. The question is, how much will he develop?

[Wade2k6]

The guy is skilled, long and athletic. It's possible he bulks up and becomes a good player, but I'm very wary of players with obvious flaws (such as his extremely frail frame) who do well in Golden State's weird, unstructured system. It's the same way I really didn't believe the hype with Brandan Wright or Marco Belinelli. I remember GS fans touting these guys as future stars at various points last season, and surprise surprise, nobody talks about them anymore. Stats on this team are almost meaningless. I am really supposed to believe that Stephen Jackson is a way better player than Paul Pierce, because he puts up better stats in GS? Am I supposed to believe that Anthony Morrow is a young Ray Allen? Or that Andris Biedrins is a comparable rebounder to Dwight Howard (13.4 R/36 for Biedrins, 13.9 R/36 for Howard)? The fact is that TONNES of bad players put up good stats on GS, and look good on the court, because they're allowed to do whatever they want, and have inflated stats due to playing at the fastest pace in the league. It's like how players like Patrick Mills and Carlos Arroyo look great when playing for Australia/Puerto Rico - when you play with garbage players, SOMEBODY has to step up, so you look like a star, but you're really nothing special on a good team.

Great post. I don't think anyone is denying his talent, but it just gets old when the GS fans hype every prospect up as the next coming of MJ. It is way premature to say he has superstar potential because he has been putting up decent stats on a team 25-30 games under .500 and on a team that plays perfectly to his strengths. I personally think he should be the 3rd/4th best player on a championship team. I think he's going to be one of those players that does alot good but does little great. He seems like more of a very good role player that will make 1-2 or so all-stars games.

Sounds to me like you're talking about Kevan Durant. If anything Nellie tried to play most of the season away from Randolph's strengths by playing smaller guys at the 4 position where AR eventually excelled (when Nellie was forced to play him consistently due to all the injuries we had at the end of the season). Magic not, but very exciting and potentially elite player, yes.

Except there's one huge difference, Durant is scoring over 25 ppg as a 21 year old 2nd year player, while Randolph hasn't showed nearly the potential that Durant has.

Randolph is not going to be an elite player. I'd say there are only 6-8 "elite" players in the game today (Bron, Wade, Kobe, TD, KG, Dirk, Paul, Howard). Randolph just doesn't have that kind of potential.

[ripkenjpn]

There's about 20-25% chance that Randolph will become better player than Griffin.
Even that, I think I'm being generous.

Rookies, sophomores, young players generally put up some nice-looking numbers after the all-star break, especially if their teams are playing like garbage and out of playoff hunt. Those numbers and some flashy plays Randolph showed after the break, I don't trust that much.

His skill-set is unique and for sure appealing. But, it is really rare that this type of so-called potential player put everything together till he retires. It just merely happens in this league.

He could be a perennial all-star. Maybe.
But, I put against it now.

I'd go with Griffin, a far safer bet at this point.

[TruE SExy]

ar is the intriguing/unique pick, but #1 has to go to the safe pick in griffin

that said, anyone who judges ar by his stats, regardless of how good they are, is completely missing the point...more special than his skillset is his intensity/aggressiveness...rarely do u see ppl who are blessed with that much talent play with that kind of passion

[Wade2k6]

Randolph has a much higher ceiling than Griffin offensively and the comparison isn't even close defensively. If Randolph stayed another at LSU he would've easily been a top 3 pick in this years draft class.

You can speculate on Randolph being a top 3 pick all you want, but there's no doubt that Griffin would still be the undisputed #1 pick.

[turk3d]

The guy is skilled, long and athletic. It's possible he bulks up and becomes a good player, but I'm very wary of players with obvious flaws (such as his extremely frail frame) who do well in Golden State's weird, unstructured system. It's the same way I really didn't believe the hype with Brandan Wright or Marco Belinelli. I remember GS fans touting these guys as future stars at various points last season, and surprise surprise, nobody talks about them anymore. Stats on this team are almost meaningless. I am really supposed to believe that Stephen Jackson is a way better player than Paul Pierce, because he puts up better stats in GS? Am I supposed to believe that Anthony Morrow is a young Ray Allen? Or that Andris Biedrins is a comparable rebounder to Dwight Howard (13.4 R/36 for Biedrins, 13.9 R/36 for Howard)? The fact is that TONNES of bad players put up good stats on GS, and look good on the court, because they're allowed to do whatever they want, and have inflated stats due to playing at the fastest pace in the league. It's like how players like Patrick Mills and Carlos Arroyo look great when playing for Australia/Puerto Rico - when you play with garbage players, SOMEBODY has to step up, so you look like a star, but you're really nothing special on a good team.

Great post. I don't think anyone is denying his talent, but it just gets old when the GS fans hype every prospect up as the next coming of MJ. It is way premature to say he has superstar potential because he has been putting up decent stats on a team 25-30 games under .500 and on a team that plays perfectly to his strengths. I personally think he should be the 3rd/4th best player on a championship team. I think he's going to be one of those players that does alot good but does little great. He seems like more of a very good role player that will make 1-2 or so all-stars games.

Sounds to me like you're talking about Kevan Durant. If anything Nellie tried to play most of the season away from Randolph's strengths by playing smaller guys at the 4 position where AR eventually excelled (when Nellie was forced to play him consistently due to all the injuries we had at the end of the season). Magic not, but very exciting and potentially elite player, yes.

Except there's one huge difference, Durant is scoring over 25 ppg as a 21 year old 2nd year player, while Randolph hasn't showed nearly the potential that Durant has.

Randolph is not going to be an elite player. I'd say there are only 6-8 "elite" players in the game today (Bron, Wade, Kobe, TD, KG, Dirk, Paul, Howard). Randolph just doesn't have that kind of potential.

The difference is that Durant was given the car keys by the Sonics from the time he was drafted. Randolph was kept under wraps by a coach who preferred to play one guy (who is 6'6) and another (who is only 6'5) at the PF because he's gets a big "stiffy" playing 5 midgets on the court. Durant shot only 43% and 28.8% from the 3 his first year, way worse numbers than Randolph in this, his first (not to mention averaged over twice as many rebounds on a per basis) and that's not getting the pt that Durant was given.

Maybe he won't be a top 10 player. Who knows? But I suppose you could say the same for Durant. The big similarity between the two is that they both weigh about the same (actually I think Durant is less) but won't keep either one of them from becoming the player he's becoming.

[NO-KG-AI]

I honestly don't know what to say if you are comparing Randolph to Durant.

And that guy was wrong, Durant won't be 21 until September.

[GswStorm3]

Randolph has a much higher ceiling than Griffin offensively and the comparison isn't even close defensively. If Randolph stayed another at LSU he would've easily been a top 3 pick in this years draft class.

You can speculate on Randolph being a top 3 pick all you want, but there's no doubt that Griffin would still be the undisputed #1 pick.

It still doesn't guarantee he'll be the better player long term.

[Wade2k6]

The difference is that Durant was given the car keys by the Sonics from the time he was drafted. Randolph was kept under wraps by a coach who preferred to play one guy (who is 6'6) and another (who is only 6'5) at the PF because he's gets a big "stiffy" playing 5 midgets on the court. Durant shot only 43% and 28.8% from the 3 his first year, way worse numbers than Randolph in this, his first (not to mention averaged over twice as many rebounds on a per basis) and that's not getting the pt that Durant was given.

Maybe he won't be a top 10 player. Who knows? But I suppose you could say the same for Durant. The big similarity between the two is that they both weigh about the same (actually I think Durant is less) but won't keep either one of them from becoming the player he's becoming.

Look, Randolph is a nice prospect, but if you're trying to compare him to Durant (in any situation) you're absolutely insane.

Durant has been, and will always will be better then Randolph.

[turk3d]

Put Randolph in the same situation that Durant was put in (can shoot all he wants, doesn't matter whether or not he makes them), plays a position where he doesn't have to bang down low (started him as a two and then moved him to 3), then we can have a fair comparison, otherwise we just don't know. Randolph, if he made one bad play (turnover or bad shot) he was immediately pulled by Nelson.

If the same thing happened to Durant his first season (he was pulled for making just one mistake and we know he made many that first season), his coach would have been $hitcanned. Totally different scenarios. We'll see how they wind up. When Durant can (at 6'10) play some center or even Power Forward then we'll talk. He'd get broken in half if he did. It's unfair to compare them at this point and say unequivocally that he can't be as good or better than Durant. Way too early. Not sure Randolph even stays with the Warriors but wherever he goes, he's surely going to be someone to keep an eye on.

It sure will be very interesting to see what he does next season if he stays on the Warriors and gets starter minutes (which he deserves).

[NetsForce]

Put Randolph in Durant's shoes and you're looking at a 5 win team TOPS.

[Wade2k6]

Turk, your argument and logic is absolutely terrible. Randolph is not close to the prospect that Durant is. It's ridiculous that I'm even having an argument over this. Put Durant in any situation and he would be >>>> Randolph.

[knicksNOTslick]

The homerism for Randolph is scary. Some of you GS fans have to get your head out of your ass. A lot of Knick fans were high on Wilson Chandler because also had a pretty good April during his rookie year, but in no way did we compare him or even look at him as anywhere close to a superstar. You should look at Randolph the same way. He's a two-way player but you need to see him do that on a more consistent basis. Plus, he has to bulk up to get there. Knick fans waited forever for Crawford to bulk up...and it never happened.

Anthony Randolph is good, he will be good but he has a long, long way to go. Please, don't overrate him yet.

[FNQ]

The homerism for Randolph is scary. Some of you GS fans have to get your head out of your ass. A lot of Knick fans were high on Wilson Chandler because also had a pretty good April during his rookie year, but in no way did we compare him or even look at him as anywhere close to a superstar. You should look at Randolph the same way. He's a two-way player but you need to see him do that on a more consistent basis. Plus, he has to bulk up to get there. Knick fans waited forever for Crawford to bulk up...and it never happened.

Anthony Randolph is good, he will be good but he has a long, long way to go. Please, don't overrate him yet.

I think the reason why is because AR looked just as good, if not better, against real competition throughout the season... it was a mystery to W's fans why Nellie would chastise him for overaggression and then put Azubuike in (who is quite possibly the most overrated player on trade boards) at the 4 and let him chuck away...

Its overstated a ton, sure... but AR was playing legit way before April. The April stats are just thrown about because casual fans were trying to deride AR early in the season, saying that since he was so good, why couldnt he log 30m on a 30 win team?

And BTW... AR clocked in at 197 pre season and was said to have added 20lbs of weight over the season... he looked much different than the complete stick figure we saw before the season, and using ultra skinny Brandan Wright as a comparison, AR definitely has added on the weight... he'll likely hover around the Bosh-like 220 for his career...