Retro Player of the Year Project

[sp6r=underrated]

I have to disagree with your attack on An Unbiased Fan.
For there is nothing he has written which is evidence that he is a troll.

Just because you strongly disagree with what he writes, doesn't mean he is a troll.
Because we all have minority opinions and that is what makes realgm great.

Can't you understand that the discussions are interesting because of the minority opinions.
All of us enjoy back and forth dialogue that is caused by someone with a different opinion.
Not everyone in the thread has the ability to apply logic up towards your standards.

Voting rights should not be decided just because you don't like an opinion.
Overall, conversation would suffer.
Thus, people should be allowed to vote if they will defend their ballot.
Everyone who has voted has followed this rule.

Welcome minority viewpoints.
Hey, we all have strange views.
You do as well

Now is not time for negativity.
Open your mind to new arguments about NBA players.
That will allow you to learn and grow as a fan.

As of now the conversation has been great

That is because of the minority viewpoints of people like AUF.
Really I hope that continues to the end of the project.
Overall, the threads will benefit.
Let not your mind be worried by the post of AUF
Let instead your mind be open to different viewpoints.

[lorak]

I have to disagree with your attack on An Unbiased Fan.
For there is nothing he has written which is evidence that he is a troll.

Just because you strongly disagree with what he writes, doesn't mean he is a troll.
Because we all have minority opinions and that is what makes realgm great.

Can't you understand that the discussions are interesting because of the minority opinions.
All of us enjoy back and forth dialogue that is caused by someone with a different opinion.
Not everyone in the thread has the ability to apply logic up towards your standards.

Voting rights should not be decided just because you don't like an opinion.
Overall, conversation would suffer.
Thus, people should be allowed to vote if they will defend their ballot.
Everyone who has voted has followed this rule.

Welcome minority viewpoints.
Hey, we all have strange views.
You do as well

Now is not time for negativity.
Open your mind to new arguments about NBA players.
That will allow you to learn and grow as a fan.

As of now the conversation has been great

That is because of the minority viewpoints of people like AUF.
Really I hope that continues to the end of the project.
Overall, the threads will benefit.
Let not your mind be worried by the post of AUF
Let instead your mind be open to different viewpoints.

AMEN!

[Silver Bullet]

I know i said I wouldn't consider anybody other than Lebron for 2010 POY, and I'm still leaning that way, but man is Kobester putting on a show - If he can maintain his PS averages all the way, I'll have to think about it hard.

[Dr Positivity]

Looks like Shaq is going to end up one good year short of Duncan. He's .6 away with 94 and 93 left. Not going to make it but it was closer than I expected. Getting nothing from 96 and 97 and only a 5th in 03 just killed him. His fault for not conditioning harder.

[Optimism Prime]

Looks like Shaq is going to end up one good year short of Duncan. He's .6 away with 94 and 93 left. Not going to make it but it was closer than I expected. Getting nothing from 96 and 97 and only a 5th in 03 just killed him. His fault for not conditioning harder.

This is something I was going to bring up in next year's thread, but what the hell. I think it's kind of telling that his best rebounding and block numbers... were his rookie year. How often has THAT happened?

[An Unbiased Fan]

Looks like Shaq is going to end up one good year short of Duncan. He's .6 away with 94 and 93 left. Not going to make it but it was closer than I expected. Getting nothing from 96 and 97 and only a 5th in 03 just killed him. His fault for not conditioning harder.

This is something I was going to bring up in next year's thread, but what the hell. I think it's kind of telling that his best rebounding and block numbers... were his rookie year. How often has THAT happened?

It's a shame Shaq didn't take care of his body, he was SO quick & active back in his Orlando days. If LA didn't get Phil in 2000(who challenged Shaq to get back in shape, and to work hard on defense), I wonder how his career would have turned out.

[Silver Bullet]

Looks like Shaq is going to end up one good year short of Duncan. He's .6 away with 94 and 93 left. Not going to make it but it was closer than I expected. Getting nothing from 96 and 97 and only a 5th in 03 just killed him. His fault for not conditioning harder.

This is something I was going to bring up in next year's thread, but what the hell. I think it's kind of telling that his best rebounding and block numbers... were his rookie year. How often has THAT happened?

Well it wasn't that uncommon in the 60's and 70's but is indeed strange for a 90's player. But a lot of it might have to do with the fact that rookies don't play many minutes in the modern era. Guys like Shaq and Duncan are the exception, rather than the norm.


Wilt almost had the same thing - peaked in his 2nd year 27.2 rebounds in 47.4 minutes vs 27 rebounds in his rookie year in 46 minutes.

Baylor peaked in his 3rd year.

Dolph Schayes peaked in his rookie year - 16.4 rpg, never again averaged over 14...

Willis Reed is another guy...

Wes Unseld

Dan Issell

Artis Gilmore (almost)

Bob Mcadoo (almost - didn't play many minutes his rookie year)

[sp6r=underrated]

Looks like Shaq is going to end up one good year short of Duncan. He's .6 away with 94 and 93 left. Not going to make it but it was closer than I expected. Getting nothing from 96 and 97 and only a 5th in 03 just killed him. His fault for not conditioning harder.

This is something I was going to bring up in next year's thread, but what the hell. I think it's kind of telling that his best rebounding and block numbers... were his rookie year. How often has THAT happened?

It's a shame Shaq didn't take care of his body, he was SO quick & active back in his Orlando days. If LA didn't get Phil in 2000(who challenged Shaq to get back in shape, and to work hard on defense), I wonder how his career would have turned out.

Without PJ.
He still would have led a team to a title, but Shaq never turns in his epic beginning to end season in 1999-2000 or his conclusion to the 00-01 RS and PS. Shaq never would have locked in defensively the way he did during that stretch without Jackson.

[Silver Bullet]

-Re: video. Pretty cool someone mentioned that. I intend to start off threads by linking to relevant data - but if others want to bring videos into this, that's fine by me. ElGee, if you have instructions/proposals for those who want to get into old game videos and aren't familiar with what's out there, go ahead at post them.

Just wanted to post a reminder - if you guys have any video evidence, please feel free to share.

[Baller 24]

SB, KG just scored to put them up 93-90, also set the major screen to give them a 91-90 lead. So pwnz0rd. You stated earlier that he wouldn't have a big basket down the stretch or do anything significant

[ronnymac2]

This isn't the game to be defending KG with. His play was laughable tonight. That stretch in the third quarter was hilarious; he seriously couldn't do anything right.

[ElGee]

This isn't the game to be defending KG with. His play was laughable tonight. That stretch in the third quarter was hilarious; he seriously couldn't do anything right.

Kevin Garnett played tonight?

[Baller 24]

Agreed, he played horrible, but SB said he wouldn't even have a big bucket down the stretch throughout any of the games in the finals

[Silver Bullet]

SB, KG just scored to put them up 93-90, also set the major screen to give them a 91-90 lead. So pwnz0rd. You stated earlier that he wouldn't have a big basket down the stretch or do anything significant

no dude, I said he would disappear down the stretch of AT LEAST one major game, and he's clearly not playing at a 100%, so I don't wanna brag.

[Doctor MJ]

Hey all,

Thinking about how we should do the POY for this season. I'm leading toward making it a weeklong thing done in parallel with our normal retro schedule, with a pure discussion thread that comes first, and then an official ranking thread. Reasons:

-I figure we have a lot to talk about, so why rush it?
-We won't need to do much research, so I don't think this will hurt the retro seasons that much.
-Because I expect a lot of discussion, separating into threads will make tabulating the results easier for me. And because it's a one time thing with plenty of time, it doesn't strike me as a pain in the ass to take that extra step.

As far as when we'll start the discussion, planning to leave at least one weekday between when the series ends and the thread starts so that we have time to digest and reflect on our own.

Let me know your thoughts.

[lorak]

I think we should do this season at the end (so after 1947). Reason - emotions. Time will allow our emotions to calm down and maybe we'll be slightly more objetive ;]

[ronnymac2]

I like making the discussion for longer. More people will probably be able to particpate more. DavidStern brings up a good point about what doing it so close to the end of the season might do to people's picks. There could be overreaction.

Maybe we could do it after the 1980 season or something like that. 1947 is too long.

[Doctor MJ]

I like making the discussion for longer. More people will probably be able to particpate more. DavidStern brings up a good point about what doing it so close to the end of the season might do to people's picks. There could be overreaction.

Maybe we could do it after the 1980 season or something like that. 1947 is too long.

I'd entertain thought of delaying for a while. So that it's on people's minds, we're getting through a decade roughly every month. So 1980 means mid-July, 1947 would mean mid-October.

My thoughts generally:

-I'm excited to do this essentially ASAP while it's fresh in my mind.
-Delaying a bit longer is fine by me.
-I don't think we're going to shake out the recency bias doing it any time soon though, meanwhile we lose the unique perspective of really having it right in our mind.
-I don't like the idea of delaying it until October first and foremost because I have no idea if this project will sustain involvement that long - and having a potential vote where I either only let a handful of people in participate, or let in people who haven't been participating is something I want to avoid.

[JordansBulls]

Hey all,

Thinking about how we should do the POY for this season. I'm leading toward making it a weeklong thing done in parallel with our normal retro schedule, with a pure discussion thread that comes first, and then an official ranking thread. Reasons:

-I figure we have a lot to talk about, so why rush it?
-We won't need to do much research, so I don't think this will hurt the retro seasons that much.
-Because I expect a lot of discussion, separating into threads will make tabulating the results easier for me. And because it's a one time thing with plenty of time, it doesn't strike me as a pain in the ass to take that extra step.

As far as when we'll start the discussion, planning to leave at least one weekday between when the series ends and the thread starts so that we have time to digest and reflect on our own.

Let me know your thoughts.

I think it would be better sometime early July that way we have everything we need to vote. If you do it as soon as the finals are over, then that IMO would affect other guys ranking on the year.

[ElGee]

For the reasons Doc listed, I was thinking early July before I read the other responses. Anytime around them works well -- it's not the day after the season but it's still fresh. I also like the idea of having a longer discussion.