The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 3)

[Dr Spaceman]

One of the greatest teams all time doesn't go down 3-1 in a series.

They just did though.

[JordansBulls]

Is there a reason why everytime the Cleveland curse is on the verge of being broken there is some sort of historic feat standing in the way? Like come the eff on. We were the favorites in 2009, then the average Magic made a historic effort at shooting the 3 and hit like 20 a game against us. Then got smacked down. Then we have a chance and Kyrie/Love get injured. Now we have a chance but we are literally facing one of the greatest teams of all time who seem to have every ball bounce their way.

Can we just win god dadfrojfr without some historic feat or team being put in our way! Ce just face a normal team in the finals that isn't historically relevant for the love of god.

One of the greatest teams all time doesn't go down 3-1 in a series.

No, they fight back and then go on to win the title.

I am not going to lie and say that I didn't want OKC to win last night but if anything, this just cements GSW's status as a GOAT level team if they win on Monday and then win the Finals. GIve credit where credit is due, JB. Don't be THAT guy.

Yeah but probably not a top 10 all time though.

[PaulieWal]

One of the greatest teams all time doesn't go down 3-1 in a series.

No, they fight back and then go on to win the title.

I am not going to lie and say that I didn't want OKC to win last night but if anything, this just cements GSW's status as a GOAT level team if they win on Monday and then win the Finals. GIve credit where credit is due, JB. Don't be THAT guy.

Yeah but probably not a top 10 all time though.

LOL never change, man. If they win the title in my eyes they are in legit contention for the best team ever. And you are saying they are not even a top 10 team all-time. Is it really hard for you to give credit to anybody else because it might threaten MJ?

[RSCD3_]

So if the thunder pull off the GREATEST UPSET IN NBA HISTORY on Monday

Do they become the GOAT TEAM? I would say they GS is in contention but long teams giving them problems is a real weakness they have that wouldnt make the impervious to older dynasties.

It kind of irks me though that many turned on them after game 4 saying they had too many weakness and have flipped 180° because golden state tied the series. A series many expected GS to win in 5 or 6 games

[BasketballFan7]

Of course GS is a worse matchup for Cleveland, but curry is not 100% and hasn't got (and won't get) consistent rest the rest of the year. GS, if they win, is going to have more bumps and bruises than just that. Cleveland, on the other hand, is as healthy as possible, and rested. Also, Lebron isn't going to be banging against iggy repeatedly on the left block in a futile effort to create efficient offense.

This isn't nearly as hopeless as many seem to think. Cleveland is damn good and can go off on any team.

[PaulieWal]

It kind of irks me though that many turned on them after game 4 saying they had too many weakness and have flipped 180° because golden state tied the series. A series many expected GS to win in 5 or 6 games

OR OKC was just playing some elite, elite defense that would give any team trouble no matter what other GOAT level team you are picking. No one saw that coming.

Ultimately, what we saw last night is the sum of everything we have seen over the last two years. When you have a real life NBA 2k shot making duo you can overcome pretty much anything and that's what makes them so, so great.

You are right, GSW was expected to win in 5 or 6, I had them in 5 in my mind but OKC play otherworldly defense with decent offense where they weren't just relying on isos gave them the lead. Last night Klay hit contested 3 after contested 3 and in the last 5 minutes the OKC offense collapsed. But that doesn't distract from the overall point many are making. If they go on to win a title this year it will be hard for me to not call a Top 2-3 GOAT team.

[Larry David]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P-mM9dfXio[/youtube]

this is hilarious its like a different player

[J Shuttlesworth]

I just can't see Cleveland beating Golden State, as much as I hate to say it. If it were last years Golden State vs. this years Cavs, I could see the Cavs winning... The Warriors have improved though and they're not inexperienced anymore. Klay was an absolute choker in the finals last year, but last night, he showed us he's capable of being a FMVP even. Didn't shy away at the biggest game of the year so far, and destroyed it. I actually fear the Warriors would beat the Cavs this year in 5. They'll absolutely abuse Kyrie/Love on the PnR.

OKC winning game 6 was the best chance the Cavs had at the ring. The window was open, but the Warriors did what great teams to and persevered.

[parapooper]

In the postseason the Cavs looked like they are on the same level as the Warriors because LeBron way outproduced Curry.
The problem is that in the finals LeBron will be guarded by Iggy and Curry will be healthy again and guarded by Kyrie (while Love is on Draymond) - that's just not fair

[JordansBulls]

In the postseason the Cavs looked like they are on the same level as the Warriors because LeBron way outproduced Curry.
The problem is that in the finals LeBron will be guarded by Iggy and Curry will be healthy again and guarded by Kyrie (while Love is on Draymond) - that's just not fair

I thought Lebron was going to get thru the postseason without having to deal with any of Jimmy, Deng, Kwahi nor Iggy. Now he sti might get Iggy on him.

[Dr Spaceman]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P-mM9dfXio[/youtube]

this is hilarious its like a different player

LeBron gains athleticism and loses his shot as he ages. He's the NBA's Benjamin Button.

[JVL]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P-mM9dfXio[/youtube]

this is hilarious its like a different player

LeBron gains athleticism and loses his shot as he ages. He's the NBA's Benjamin Button.

I like his current game a lot more. Remember when the biggest criticism he got was that he lacked fundamentals and only scored relying on him bullying his way to the rim?

He's added aspects to his game every off-season, he worked on developing himself as a player. It's peculiar that his shot is so broken it's almost beyond repair, but he's so solid as an off-the-ball player right now that he might be in his best form, ever. If he can find even a modicum of his shooting form, it's insane to think that he's a more complete and better player than ever, just not as relentlessly explosive.

[PCProductions]

I definitely don't miss the jab steps.

[Larry David]

I definitely don't miss the jab steps.

I swear in 13 and 14 that **** was money every time

[J Shuttlesworth]

I enjoyed this LeBron game vs. Thunder a little more. It was the season when KD got MVP, and he clearly wanted to make a statement:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h8XcLPi9zc[/youtube]

[VideoGameJames]

I recall seeing something on defense that Irving and Love are pathetically bad in pick and roll situations. Imagine them having to chase Curry and Green around.

Cavs got Frye to matchup with the Warriors specifically.

Warriors matchup well with the Cavs since Thompson and Iggy can somewhat slow down LeBron. Nobody in OKC stood a chance against LeBron.

I actually think Roberson is the best Lebron defender left in the playoffs. He has been incredible, he has length, quickness, strength, and young legs. I can't fault him at all for Klay putting the 2K settings on "Easy" in the 4th. Iggy can get it done for stretches, but he doesn't quite have the stamina to do it all game.

Actually Roberson being in foul trouble probably cost thunder

I think Roberson picked up one of those fouls on Hack-A-Bogut. Donovan also waited too long to put him back in til just under 3 minutes left when GSW's small ball lineup had settled into a rhythm and gotten Curry an open 3 that he knocked down because Adams was still out there in place of Roberson. OKC's lineup of Ibaka, KD, Roberson, Waiters, RWB was something like +60 in their last 2 home games with a big portion of their minutes against GSW's death lineup. Donovan had been surprisingly good so far in the playoffs, but he was a big part of the collapse at the end.

[JLei]

I definitely don't miss the jab steps.

I swear in 13 and 14 that **** was money every time

It was. Got to the point where Vogel told George to get way up on it in the 14 playoff series because apparently they charted him shooting like 60% on them. Ridiculous it got to the point where Bron catching the ball in triple threat from 18 feet that you wanted him to drive into help rather than shoot.

Lebron doesn't really have dribble moves that create separation like a Kobe, Kyrie or Steph where if they create enough separation and they land on balance on a crossover it's like an uncontested shot. He has the step back and the turnaround J's but those are still off balance shots even if to him they are relatively uncontested.

This was his version of a separation move. Where literally he jabs you to the point where it's nearly a zero contest because of his release point and he's 100% on balance. Still have no idea why he can't make it anymore. Early in 2015 even when his jumper was erratic the triple threat jab step J was still good for him.

[DirtyDez]

Of course GS is a worse matchup for Cleveland, but curry is not 100% and hasn't got (and won't get) consistent rest the rest of the year. GS, if they win, is going to have more bumps and bruises than just that. Cleveland, on the other hand, is as healthy as possible, and rested. Also, Lebron isn't going to be banging against iggy repeatedly on the left block in a futile effort to create efficient offense.

This isn't nearly as hopeless as many seem to think. Cleveland is damn good and can go off on any team.

The way the Finals are scheduled the Warriors will have plenty of time to rest. Either team that wins tomorrow will have two days between the first 3 games.

[Visson007]

Hi guys,

Long-time Lurker, first time poster.

I wanted to take a deeper look at the potential CLE – GSW finals matchup. I’m from Holland so I’m not able to see a lot games in the regular season. In the playoffs however I set the alarm at night to watch the interesting games.

So I watched all finals games from last year and most of the playoffs so far. I’m amazed by the number of people who are saying that Cleveland doesn’t stand a chance against Golden State in a potential finals match-up.

If we take a look at the finals last year, we saw Cleveland take a 2-1 lead after three really close games. In game 4 Kerr put Iguodala in the starting line-up and everything changed. We can assume that this year they will do this from game 1:

GSW line-up
Curry
Klay
Barnes
Iguodala
Green

CLE line-up (2015 --> 2016)
Delly --> Irving
Shump --> JR
James --> James
TT --> Love
Mozgov --> TT

JR --> Shump
Miller --> Jefferson
Jones --> Fry
Nobody --> Delly

So only looking at line-ups it’s safe to say that the 2016 CLE line-up is definitely better than the 2015 CLE line-up.
If we take a deeper look at the starting line-ups it’s also easy to see that although GSW plays with the same players they still improved a lot and the CLE starting line-up is worse defensively, but a lot better offensively.

GSW offense:
CLE was able to limit Klay’s impact, but biggest problem was the Curry-Green pick and roll.
Curry was able to get enough room for a three or Green rolled to the basket for an easy two or a pass to Iggy/Thompson/Barnes for an open three. This was unstoppable for CLE last year.

In the Hawks series CLE was able to limit Korver and I Cle has to hope they can do this again with Klay. However again the biggest problem with the Cavs is to defend the pick and roll. Especially when Irving and Love are defending, this always leads to an open three or an easy lay-up. When this causes problems against GSW they should just change the coverage:
James should be guarding either Curry with TT on Green or James should be guarding Green. I think you can hide either Love/Irving on Barnes/Iguodala.

I know that it’s not possible to do this the entire game, but in this series I think Lebron must play a more defensive role and leave the offense to Irving and Love.
I also think that when down 2-0, Tyron Lue won't be afraid to change his rotations and let Love or Irving (or both) come of the bench.

CLE offense:
Well I don’t know if you can call the 2015 Cavs really an offensive game plan. It was just dump the ball to Lebron and see what he does. It didn’t help that absolutely no-one was able to knock down an open three from anywhere on the floor. Mozgov was the Cavs second scoring option and with Mozgov and TT in the game GSW could load up in the paint and wait on the Lebron – Iggy iso.

This year it will be different and I think the Cavs offense will cause trouble for GSW. Who is going to guard Love and TT and who will be guarding the paint? Who’s going to guard Frye when he comes in? Will they put Klay on Irving (like in game 1 last year) and Curry on JR?
To me it looks like there are a lot of match-up problems and I’m very curious to see how GSW-fans think they will solve this new Cavs line up.

I want to make clear I don’t think that the Cavs will be the favourites going into a finals against GS, but to say they have no chance is ridiculous. I think it will be a 50-50 series and details, execution and (let’s hope not) injuries will determine the outcome.

Apologies for any errors. English is not my native language….

[kayess]

Hi guys,

Long-time Lurker, first time poster.

I wanted to take a deeper look at the potential CLE – GSW finals matchup. I’m from Holland so I’m not able to see a lot games in the regular season. In the playoffs however I set the alarm at night to watch the interesting games.

So I watched all finals games from last year and most of the playoffs so far. I’m amazed by the number of people who are saying that Cleveland doesn’t stand a chance against Golden State in a potential finals match-up.

If we take a look at the finals last year, we saw Cleveland take a 2-1 lead after three really close games. In game 4 Kerr put Iguodala in the starting line-up and everything changed. We can assume that this year they will do this from game 1:

GSW line-up
Curry
Klay
Barnes
Iguodala
Green

CLE line-up (2015 --> 2016)
Delly --> Irving
Shump --> JR
James --> James
TT --> Love
Mozgov --> TT

JR --> Shump
Miller --> Jefferson
Jones --> Fry
Nobody --> Delly

So only looking at line-ups it’s safe to say that the 2016 CLE line-up is definitely better than the 2015 CLE line-up.
If we take a deeper look at the starting line-ups it’s also easy to see that although GSW plays with the same players they still improved a lot and the CLE starting line-up is worse defensively, but a lot better offensively.

GSW offense:
CLE was able to limit Klay’s impact, but biggest problem was the Curry-Green pick and roll.
Curry was able to get enough room for a three or Green rolled to the basket for an easy two or a pass to Iggy/Thompson/Barnes for an open three. This was unstoppable for CLE last year.

In the Hawks series CLE was able to limit Korver and I Cle has to hope they can do this again with Klay. However again the biggest problem with the Cavs is to defend the pick and roll. Especially when Irving and Love are defending, this always leads to an open three or an easy lay-up. When this causes problems against GSW they should just change the coverage:
James should be guarding either Curry with TT on Green or James should be guarding Green. I think you can hide either Love/Irving on Barnes/Iguodala.

I know that it’s not possible to do this the entire game, but in this series I think Lebron must play a more defensive role and leave the offense to Irving and Love.
I also think that when down 2-0, Tyron Lue won't be afraid to change his rotations and let Love or Irving (or both) come of the bench.

CLE offense:
Well I don’t know if you can call the 2015 Cavs really an offensive game plan. It was just dump the ball to Lebron and see what he does. It didn’t help that absolutely no-one was able to knock down an open three from anywhere on the floor. Mozgov was the Cavs second scoring option and with Mozgov and TT in the game GSW could load up in the paint and wait on the Lebron – Iggy iso.

This year it will be different and I think the Cavs offense will cause trouble for GSW. Who is going to guard Love and TT and who will be guarding the paint? Who’s going to guard Frye when he comes in? Will they put Klay on Irving (like in game 1 last year) and Curry on JR?
To me it looks like there are a lot of match-up problems and I’m very curious to see how GSW-fans think they will solve this new Cavs line up.

I want to make clear I don’t think that the Cavs will be the favourites going into a finals against GS, but to say they have no chance is ridiculous. I think it will be a 50-50 series and details, execution and (let’s hope not) injuries will determine the outcome.

Apologies for any errors. English is not my native language….

Would not have known - your English is close to perfect, don't worry.

You bring up an interesting idea - hiding Irving/Love on Iggy. Iggy can probably post Kyrie up, but as we saw in the OKC series, GSW won't really kill you by posting their big on your guards. It's a similar concept I guess.

That leaves LeBron/Smith on Curry, other guy on Klay, and Love on Green defending the PNR. Far more palatable situation than Irving on him, I just don't know how long LeBron can keep up with Curry's explosiveness for example. They can probably take turns while the other "hides" on Klay when he's being a floor spacer/plan Z cutter, and give Steph different looks (such as JR Smith chasing him around screens - he did great work on Korver, but Curry's a different beast obviously).

TT doesn't really need to be guarded, that rebounding battle can be won by GSW though as they are very good on the defensive glass. The Love/Frye lineup (hell just the Frye) lineup is pretty unstoppable on O, but they give up just as much on D.

It's really GSW's consistency and floor that make them so scary. The way you described it is how Cleveland can hope to shake things up and get a chance, but it's going to be super hard to keep that up and win 4 games. That's why everyone's saying GS humiliates them.