James Harden is a superstar

bbms · Post #681 » by **bbms** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:20 am

Look at Harden's shooting chart and see if you have any clue why he is being worse than last season in terms of shooting efficiency.

3pt down. Okay, this might be a shooting slump. He had these kind of slump playing for the Thunder for some stretches. But he has almost half of the FGA from 16-23 ft than he attempted the whole last season on 35%. He shoots almost the same number of 3-23 ft shots than three pointers these seasons.

He's taking too much midrange shots, where he has never been good at. He's taking poor shots. He's not playing worse than he was at the Thunder: he's being a totally different kind of scorer.

fallacy · Post #682 » by **fallacy** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:22 am

CKRT wrote:
fallacy wrote:Fun fact: Comparing Harden to the Thunder's 10 man rotation, Harden would finish 9 out of 11 in eFg%

This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. That kind of analysis just reeks of bias, and has literally no meaning whatsoever. Who led the Thunder in eFG% last year? Context is important man.

Good thing that was just a random fact I was throwing out and not the basis of my argument. My argument is that Harden is shooting terribly this season, I'm still waiting for someone to either agree with that point or disagree.

Rapcity_11 · Post #683 » by **Rapcity_11** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:28 am

bbms wrote:He's taking too much midrange shots, where he has never been good at. He's taking poor shots. He's not playing worse than he was at the Thunder: he's being a totally different kind of scorer.

He's shooting 38% on 2.9 attempts per game from 16-23. That's pretty good. Even a hair higher than KD so far this year. So no, I wouldn't say he's taking too many midrange shots. His shot distribution is still among the best in the league.

Harden's only real issues right now are 3 point shot selection and high TO's.

Post #684 » by **tsherkin** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:27 pm

fallacy wrote:I just used eFg% to backup my point, or is that some worthless stat as well?

That's not really relevant to commentary on what you were saying before, now is it?

Harden is shooting very poorly, that's all my point was and no one will argue that he's shooting well.

He's not shooting very well... "from 3."

That's the thing you keep ignoring. He's shooting very well from at the rim, where he's getting more than almost anyone else in the league. He's shooting pretty well in the key, from mid-range, and on long 2s, but those aren't terrifically high-percentage shots to begin with and he doesn't take a lot of them. He's really having a rough time from 3, which represents the second-largest proportion of his overall shots and which are low-raw-FG% shots with high pay off, but even acknowledging that, he's struggling from there.

So yeah, he's struggling with his shot, but the characterizations and comments you were making earlier did not make any sense, so you were called out on said comments. What you say going forward, that's something else, something new.

Rapcity_11 · Post #685 » by **Rapcity_11** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:14 pm

Still waiting for you at the stats board fallacy...

JordansBulls · Post #686 » by **JordansBulls** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:37 pm

Any news if he will play tonight? If so I want to see if Luol Deng defends him and how he does against him.

Post #687 » by **tsherkin** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:45 pm

JordansBulls wrote:Any news if he will play tonight? If so I want to see if Luol Deng defends him and how he does against him.

Flu is rough; he had a URI, and that's just brutal on stamina at this level.

CKRT · Post #688 » by **CKRT** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:48 pm

I think he's supposed to play, but like tsherkin said I wouldn't expect a whole lot unless he's basically over it.

bbms · Post #689 » by **bbms** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:08 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:
bbms wrote:He's taking too much midrange shots, where he has never been good at. He's taking poor shots. He's not playing worse than he was at the Thunder: he's being a totally different kind of scorer.

He's shooting 38% on 2.9 attempts per game from 16-23. That's pretty good. Even a hair higher than KD so far this year. So no, I wouldn't say he's taking too many midrange shots. His shot distribution is still among the best in the league.

Harden's only real issues right now are 3 point shot selection and high TO's.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ting/2013/
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ting/2012/

He attempted 40 FG from 10-23 ft this season on a total of 194 shots. 21% of his field goals is from this area. He made only 12 of them. 30% exactly.

Last season he attempted 95 from this same 10-23 distance. Totalized 629 FGA, which means 15% of his field goals from that area, and on better efficiency.

He's taking more midrange shots per game and more midrange shots per shot taken this season.

Post #690 » by **tsherkin** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:21 pm

It was inevitable that Harden was going to have to expand his shot selection coming in as a #1 scoring weapon, and this is only more true on a terrible offensive team like the Rockets.

CKRT · Post #691 » by **CKRT** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:58 am

sweet baby jesus we already knew the Rockets were a horrible team offensively sans Harden, but good god they are terrible tonight.

Krodis · Post #692 » by **Krodis** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:04 am

CKRT wrote:sweet baby jesus we already knew the Rockets were a horrible team offensively sans Harden, but good god they are terrible tonight.

The Bulls are so unafraid of everyone else on the team that they're doubling Harden...

35 feet away from the basket.

Krodis · Post #693 » by **Krodis** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:42 am

Good game tonight for Harden. He seems to be hitting his threes again. And I get the feeling we may be seeing less and less Lin/Harden lineups as time goes by.

Rapcity_11 · Post #694 » by **Rapcity_11** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:46 am

Krodis wrote:Good game tonight for Harden. He seems to be hitting his threes again. And I get the feeling we may be seeing less and less Lin/Harden lineups as time goes by.

But it was against a bad team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh wait.

OptimusOne6 · Post #695 » by **OptimusOne6** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:59 am

Rapcity_11 wrote:
Krodis wrote:Good game tonight for Harden. He seems to be hitting his threes again. And I get the feeling we may be seeing less and less Lin/Harden lineups as time goes by.

But it was against a bad team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh wait.

Bulls are not as good of a defensive team this season as they were in the past. The several reasons being is that the bench is completely different, Rose was an underrated defender, and Boozer has gotten even worse, if that is even possible.

Most people should know that Harden would have a big game tonight considering how he was playing against a team that had Boozer in it.

Harden is a pick and roll player, Boozer is the worst pick and roll defender in the league. Well, Boozer is actually the worst defender in the league, but you should catch my drift.

He is still struggling against elite teams, elite defenses, and elite perimeter defenders, it is not an opinion, it is a fact.

Rapcity_11 · Post #696 » by **Rapcity_11** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:07 am

OptimusOne6 wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:
Krodis wrote:Good game tonight for Harden. He seems to be hitting his threes again. And I get the feeling we may be seeing less and less Lin/Harden lineups as time goes by.

But it was against a bad team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh wait.

Bulls are not as good of a defensive team this season as they were in the past. The several reasons being is that the bench is completely different, Rose was an underrated defender, and Boozer has gotten even worse, if that is even possible.

Most people should know that Harden would have a big game tonight considering how he was playing against a team that had Boozer in it.

Harden is a pick and roll player, Boozer is the worst pick and roll defender in the league. Well, Boozer is actually the worst defender in the league, but you should catch my drift.

He is still struggling against elite teams, elite defenses, and elite perimeter defenders, it is not an opinion, it is a fact.

Keep the excuses coming. It's pathetic. First the Hawks were a bad team even though in reality they are solid and have the #2 Drtg right now. Now the Bulls aren't great defensively? :lol:

(Not specifically you, more in general)

The Bulls are still an elite defense. Still have Deng, Noah, Gibson, Thibs etc.

OptimusOne6 · Post #697 » by **OptimusOne6** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:11 am

Rapcity_11 wrote:Keep the excuses coming. It's pathetic. First the Hawks were a bad team even though in reality they are solid and have the #2 Drtg right now. Now the Bulls aren't great defensively? (Not specifically you, more in general)

The Hawks are a bad team, how is that not true? Also, lol at using team stats at the moment, yeah, because we sure have a nice sample size right now. It's not like stats can be completely skewed after a game or two right now. :lol:

The Bulls are still an elite defense. Still have Deng, Noah, Gibson, Thibs etc.

This doesn't change the fact that Boozer, the worst pick and roll defender and the worst overall defender in the league was on the team. Bulls got some good positives on defense, too bad they also have a huge negative. The Rockets more than likely took advantage of that, as every team that is smart would.

Plus, Deng is nothing special when it comes to man to man. He makes his mark as a help defender and if not then he is very overrated defensively.

Rapcity_11 · Post #698 » by **Rapcity_11** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:18 am

OptimusOne6 wrote:The Hawks are a bad team, how is that not true? Also, lol at using team stats at the moment, yeah, because we sure have a nice sample size right now. It's not like stats can be completely skewed after a game or two right now.

Yes, I expect the Hawks to make the playoffs. They're a solid team. Horford/Smith/Teague/Williams/Harris with shooters in Korver and Morrow and decent roleplayer Zaza. Yeah, that's a playoff team. Also a team that was 6th in Drtg last year.

Sure stats can be skewed early in the year but if the Hawks were poor defensively they wouldn't be #2 in Drtg, that is a fact.

This doesn't change the fact that Boozer, the worst pick and roll defender and the worst overall defender in the league was on the team. Bulls got some good positives on defense, too bad they also have a huge negative. The Rockets more than likely took advantage of that, as every team that is smart would.

So how the **** have the Bulls managed back to back top 2 Drtg finishes? Or are all the other teams just not smart?

Do you not think Thibs is capable of making adjustments as to not expose Boozer continually?

Plus, Deng is nothing special when it comes to man to man. He makes his mark as a help defender and if not then he is very overrated defensively.

Not even close. Deng is among the smartest and best defenders in the league on and off the ball. He's underrated if anything.

OptimusOne6 · Post #699 » by **OptimusOne6** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:24 am

Rapcity_11 wrote:Sure stats can be skewed early in the year but if the Hawks were poor defensively they wouldn't be #2 in Drtg, that is a fact.

Ok, if you want to say something like that then I'll just say that Harden had a big game against ATL because it was his second game. No teams had game planned him yet at the time.

As the season has progressed, more teams have game planned for him and now Harden is struggling and being defended well by most teams, even the bad ones like the Pistons.

Harden played very average in that 2nd Pistons game, game-planning and adjusting couldn't have been the difference, could it? :roll:

So how the **** have the Bulls managed back to back top 2 Drtg finishes? Or are all the other teams just not smart?

Do you not think Thibs is capable of making adjustments as to not expose Boozer continually?

I guess you didn't read the part where I said this Bulls team is different than the Bulls team in 2011 and 2012 because of their completely new bench.

You must have also missed how Derrick Rose is an underrated defender and he is out for the season.

I suggest you actually read posts before responding, maybe you'll cool off too because you sound dense.

Not even close. Deng is among the smartest and best defenders in the league on and off the ball. He's underrated if anything.

Nope, Deng always allows big games to star players he defends like Durant, Kobe, Melo, Lebron, etc. Deng is nothing special when it comes to man to man, it is what it is.

Of course, I would expect a huge Harden supporter like yourself to deny it because you want to make sure that Harden is considered great and actually accomplished something great tonight.

Krodis · Post #700 » by **Krodis** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:33 am

In his last 4 games besides the flu game, he's had games of 29, 30, and 28 all on good efficiency. The Lakers game got away from him and the Rockets a little bit, but it was hardly a disaster. (20 points and 7 assists on mediocre efficiency and 5 turnovers).

So if this is the league adjusted to him, I think he's still in good shape going forward. Especially if Lin stops being terrible.