The Lebron Thread | 2021 & Offseason

[yoyoboy]

Harrell is not a guy you sign with the full MLE, straight up. He’s not gonna be playable come playoffs.

[MartinToVaught]

Trez was awesome all year

At scoring regular-season points against bench players. Not at anything else. Fans and media were begging Doc all year to stop playing him more than Zubac for a reason.

9th in his position at 2.34 RPM. 2.9 BPM

Most impact stats have him as an extremely good bench player. Raw stats just confirm it

He's good enough in the regular season to cover for his poor defense/rebounding most of the time. Come playoff time, we were -68 with him on the court and +123 without him. It's tough to make the case that he's an "extremely good bench player" when his impact completely disappears in the playoffs.

[nzahir]

There's literally 1 player in the West he cant guard, and thats Jokic. He's fine in every other matchup. The year before, he was amazing against GSW and extended a series they had no business being in

Golden State wasn't even taking them seriously bro come on. And they were having weird identity issues with it finally morphing into KDs team and none of the guys on the OG Warriors squads liking that he was given more primacy than Steph. They got clapped once they fell in line behind KD and the Warriors took them seriously.

Edit: and another thing. The nuggets and Mavs are clearly gonna be the biggest threats to the Lakers these next 2 years. If Trez is gonna cost you the series against them that means he costs you a championship. Doesn't matter if it's 1 guy. If that's the guy you likely have to go thru in one of these next 2 seasons that means he's a liability for the entirety of his contract.

Again, we've seen Vogel have a short leash on guys who become apparent liabilities, the end game has always been Davis at the 5.

DS and Trezz are gonna keep us afloat in this quick RS while LeBron can get some rest.

So if AD closes out games at the 5, why did we do this????

For the regular season only?

Come playoff time, we need 2 way guys.

Current rotation:

?, Wes, Bron, AD, Mcgenius?
Dennis, AC, Tht, Kuzma, Trez

I can see the next move including Kuzma and or McGee if need be. Need to free up space for KCP and maybe sign a better big than McGee

[xb3at band1tx]

Golden State wasn't even taking them seriously bro come on. And they were having weird identity issues with it finally morphing into KDs team and none of the guys on the OG Warriors squads liking that he was given more primacy than Steph. They got clapped once they fell in line behind KD and the Warriors took them seriously.

Edit: and another thing. The nuggets and Mavs are clearly gonna be the biggest threats to the Lakers these next 2 years. If Trez is gonna cost you the series against them that means he costs you a championship. Doesn't matter if it's 1 guy. If that's the guy you likely have to go thru in one of these next 2 seasons that means he's a liability for the entirety of his contract.

Again, we've seen Vogel have a short leash on guys who become apparent liabilities, the end game has always been Davis at the 5.

DS and Trezz are gonna keep us afloat in this quick RS while LeBron can get some rest.

So if AD closes out games at the 5, why did we do this????

For the regular season only?

Come playoff time, we need 2 way guys.

Current rotation:

?, Wes, Bron, AD, Mcgenius?
Dennis, AC, Tht, Kuzma, Trez

I can see the next move including Kuzma and or McGee if need be. Need to free up space for KCP and maybe sign a better big than McGee

Yes.

LeBron is not getting any younger and the Lakers have to deal with a quick turnaround and are forced to play 70+ games so soon. Gotta see what Rob picks up of what's left first though. THey need to bring back KCP and another back up center (Gasol)

[mademan]

At scoring regular-season points against bench players. Not at anything else. Fans and media were begging Doc all year to stop playing him more than Zubac for a reason.

9th in his position at 2.34 RPM. 2.9 BPM

Most impact stats have him as an extremely good bench player. Raw stats just confirm it

He's good enough in the regular season to cover for his poor defense/rebounding most of the time. Come playoff time, we were -68 with him on the court and +123 without him. It's tough to make the case that he's an "extremely good bench player" when his impact completely disappears in the playoffs.

you mean disappeared, right? Cause he was amazing in 2019 against the Warriors and was a major part of making it a more competitive series than it should have been.

He's not a star. He's a very useful player when used correctly. He's an amazing PnR player who can be a suped up Anderson Varajeo for Lebron, and good enough defensively against teams without post up bigs. The West isnt full of them

[Heej]

There's literally 1 player in the West he cant guard, and thats Jokic. He's fine in every other matchup. The year before, he was amazing against GSW and extended a series they had no business being in

Golden State wasn't even taking them seriously bro come on. And they were having weird identity issues with it finally morphing into KDs team and none of the guys on the OG Warriors squads liking that he was given more primacy than Steph. They got clapped once they fell in line behind KD and the Warriors took them seriously.

but youre out here giving context there but not to this year? Trez was awesome all year, had a break, had a family death, came back out of shape and stunk it up. He's a good player who does a lot of good things and is no where near as bad defensively as you think he is. He's for sure a positive defensive player and i imagine most stats will back that up.

Ya, he has problems with post players who are bigger than him, but Vogel benched his C's this season when they were in bad matchups. He'll do the same if it comes to it. Harrell is a huge + for the Lakers title hopes tho

Alright man I hope you're right. To me his archetype is a negative value add. Even if he's the paragon of his archetype (which he isn't, Minny KLove minus the shooting prolly might be that) he's still susceptible to the same tactical deficiencies. I hope you're right and I'll happily eat crow if he defies all expectations and positively contributes in important series', but everything I feel like I've seen about the way the league has trended over the years just doesn't pass the sniff test. And I'm not gonna lie man, I feel like I have a solid track record predicting trends. I remember back in 2014 watching LeBron Plug up the pint while being able to perfectly close out and causing record scratches that I made a topic about the importance of 3 point defense and Kawhi ended up going back to back DPOTY the seasons after
[url]
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1306395&hilit=Kawhi[/url]

I didn't like the move with Schroder either but that's about 10million times more defensible to me. Same thing like I told people that the Lakers 2-way role players were far more comparable to the Heat's 1-way ones than people realized. This just doesn't bode well to me but we shall see, I hope you're right.

[mademan]

Golden State wasn't even taking them seriously bro come on. And they were having weird identity issues with it finally morphing into KDs team and none of the guys on the OG Warriors squads liking that he was given more primacy than Steph. They got clapped once they fell in line behind KD and the Warriors took them seriously.

Edit: and another thing. The nuggets and Mavs are clearly gonna be the biggest threats to the Lakers these next 2 years. If Trez is gonna cost you the series against them that means he costs you a championship. Doesn't matter if it's 1 guy. If that's the guy you likely have to go thru in one of these next 2 seasons that means he's a liability for the entirety of his contract.

Again, we've seen Vogel have a short leash on guys who become apparent liabilities, the end game has always been Davis at the 5.

DS and Trezz are gonna keep us afloat in this quick RS while LeBron can get some rest.

So if AD closes out games at the 5, why did we do this????

For the regular season only?

Come playoff time, we need 2 way guys.

Current rotation:

?, Wes, Bron, AD, Mcgenius?
Dennis, AC, Tht, Kuzma, Trez

I can see the next move including Kuzma and or McGee if need be. Need to free up space for KCP and maybe sign a better big than McGee

No MLE player was gonna be closing games for the Lakers. Ibaka isnt getting MLE money

[Dupp]

Look at some of these contracts. Morris got64 mil? Wut. Harrell must be kicking himself.

[MyUniBroDavis]

The only position he can play on offense is 5. If he can't guard his position he's a liability. You want role players to space the floor for LeBron and AD. Now AD is gonna space the floor for Montrezl Harrell just to be serviceable, AND we have to make AD guard the 5? Trash. You don't want him in your closing lineup, and if that's the case what are you paying 10 mil a year for plus luxury tax costs. This is about optimal team building and opportunity cost.

We've seen plenty of LeBron teams run out of steam and that's because the GMs consistently made low-value adds every year, the issues with which compounded every year. You can't rely on vet minimum guys with zero continuity to plug in cracks that start to form lol.

There's literally 1 player in the West he cant guard, and thats Jokic. He's fine in every other matchup. The year before, he was amazing against GSW and extended a series they had no business being in

Golden State wasn't even taking them seriously bro come on. And they were having weird identity issues with it finally morphing into KDs team and none of the guys on the OG Warriors squads liking that he was given more primacy than Steph. They got clapped once they fell in line behind KD and the Warriors took them seriously.

Edit: and another thing. The nuggets and Mavs are clearly gonna be the biggest threats to the Lakers these next 2 years. If Trez is gonna cost you the series against them that means he costs you a championship. Doesn't matter if it's 1 guy. If that's the guy you likely have to go thru in one of these next 2 seasons that means he's a liability for the entirety of his contract. That's the opportunity cost of this signing. You're gonna invest a lot of capital in a guy that will actively lower your odds of winning a championship.

I mean your not wrong about it being a strange move, and i agree harrel has things that can be targetted in the playoffs. The fit offensively is possible but its just really awkward and i would rather have gotten a floor spacing big with a full mle, but im sure they have a plan

I disagree with the nuggets and mavs for the next two years, nets and milwakee still scare me more

I agree that having no weaknesses is important in the playoffs, since playoff bball is about gameplanning more, which is why a guy like davis is so good in the playoffs.

Its not an optimal way to use the mle but assuming we dont obsess with giving him minutes when we shouldnt, losing rondo/green/markieff for schroder/matthews/harrell is chill. I think we had better options with the mle, esp since we used the full mle.

[dreamshake]

I'm not sure how to feel about Trez signing. Initially I hated it - maybe I still do. I think it will depend on how the rest of free agency goes. Like if they passed on Ibaka, I'd hate it. If they passed on Tristan Thompson I'm ok with it. Even if I don't love him, 2/19 is a great value for a player of his profile and it hurts the Clips (who I still personally think are the Lakers biggest threat in the west, despite their meltdown this past season).

[mademan]

Golden State wasn't even taking them seriously bro come on. And they were having weird identity issues with it finally morphing into KDs team and none of the guys on the OG Warriors squads liking that he was given more primacy than Steph. They got clapped once they fell in line behind KD and the Warriors took them seriously.

but youre out here giving context there but not to this year? Trez was awesome all year, had a break, had a family death, came back out of shape and stunk it up. He's a good player who does a lot of good things and is no where near as bad defensively as you think he is. He's for sure a positive defensive player and i imagine most stats will back that up.

Ya, he has problems with post players who are bigger than him, but Vogel benched his C's this season when they were in bad matchups. He'll do the same if it comes to it. Harrell is a huge + for the Lakers title hopes tho

Alright man I hope you're right. To me his archetype is a negative value add. Even if he's the paragon of his archetype (which he isn't, Minny KLove minus the shooting prolly might be that) he's still susceptible to the same tactical deficiencies. I hope you're right and I'll happily eat crow if he defies all expectations and positively contributes in important series', but everything I feel like I've seen about the way the league has trended over the years just doesn't pass the sniff test. And I'm not gonna lie man, I feel like I have a solid track record predicting trends. I remember back in 2014 watching LeBron Plug up the pint while being able to perfectly close out and causing record scratches that I made a topic about the importance of 3 point defense and Kawhi ended up going back to back DPOTY the seasons after

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1306395&hilit=Kawhi

I didn't like the move with Schroder either but that's about 10million times more defensible to me. Same thing like I told people that the Lakers 2-way role players were far more comparable to the Heat's 1-way ones than people realized. This just doesn't bode well to me but we shall see, I hope you're right.

He's not a star. He's a useful bench player who is terrific value at 9 mill/year. That should be the end of it. What did you think the Lakers would get for the MLE? This blows that out of the water (unless you thought ibaka, which is a pipe dream)

[Fadeaway_J]

Harrell is not a guy you sign with the full MLE, straight up. He’s not gonna be playable come playoffs.

I seriously think the idea of players being "unplayable" in the playoffs has taken on too much credence because of the Warriors.

Obviously, the further you progress the more your weaknesses are likely to be attacked, but there are still early rounds to get through against teams that also have their share of "unplayable" players. And even then it's not a certainty that the team you face will actually be able to exploit your specific weakness. Like, the Clippers (ironically enough) don't seem particularly well equipped to play a guy like Harrell off the floor.

Again, I'm not in love with the signing but I don't buy the idea that Harrell will just spontaneously combust once the playoffs start.

[dcstanley]

I recoiled when I saw this signing and I absolutely agree that Harrell is not an optimal use of the MLE but I don't think this postseason was a true representative of his postseason abilities. He was out of the bubble for a considerable amount of time due to the passing of his grandmother and returned in really poor shape. His value diminishes in the postseason but I think this past season was more of an outlier than a real indication of what we can expect.

Still hope they target Gasol with whatever money they have left after KCP.

[Dupp]

So could have the clippers offered that 64 mil to gallo?

Morris contract is horrid. They’re blowing it.

[thebigbird]

After seeing the Clippers give Marcus Morris 4 years/$64 million, I feel a lot better about this. I don't really know who else they could've gotten with the MLE that would've been a better option than Harrell. I had the same thoughts as many of you, but man some of these contracts dudes are getting are insane. The Lakers made some improvements with the limited resources they had.

[Jordan Syndrome]

So could have the clippers offered that 64 mil to gallo?

Morris contract is horrid. They’re blowing it.

No, Gallo wanted 3/61 not 4/64 plus I think LAC used bird rights to resign Morris over the cap.

[dreamshake]

After seeing the Clippers give Marcus Morris 4 years/$64 million, I feel a lot better about this. I don't really know who else they could've gotten with the MLE that would've been a better option than Harrell. I had the same thoughts as many of you, but man some of these contracts dudes are getting are insane. The Lakers made some improvements with the limited resources they had.

Yeah, like they got Harrell for less than Rodney Hood or Meyers Leonard just got paid. Hell, Jordan Clarkson got 4/52.

[Dupp]

After seeing the Clippers give Marcus Morris 4 years/$64 million, I feel a lot better about this. I don't really know who else they could've gotten with the MLE that would've been a better option than Harrell. I had the same thoughts as many of you, but man some of these contracts dudes are getting are insane. The Lakers made some improvements with the limited resources they had.

Yeah the contracts are insane. Lakers got a bargain. Jokic cost Harrell 40 mil.

[MisterHibachi]

Not a huge fan of the Trezz signing but the price is really cheap. Lakers got way younger, swapping out Rondo and Dwight for Dennis and Trezz. That bench pick and roll should be pretty deadly. But not sure who is supposed to guard Jokic now with Dwight gone (that whole miscommunication seems like a **** show). But Denver took a big hit with Grant leaving.

Although I hope this doesn't prevent the Lakers from signing KCP back. Also, I love the Wes Matthews signing.

Has there been news on where Bogdan is going or did I miss it?

[Dupp]

So could have the clippers offered that 64 mil to gallo?

Morris contract is horrid. They’re blowing it.

No, Gallo wanted 3/61 not 4/64 plus I think LAC used bird rights to resign Morris over the cap.

He might have taken less on a contender though. But was asking if it was possible or not