2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

[Doctor MJ]

Nets offense looks terrifying, but if we're going by one-game sample sizes, giving up 115 to a Magic squad that hadn't cracked 100 points in four straight games is kind of concerning. What would a team like Milwaukee/Boston/Indiana do to them in the playoffs?

For perspective:

That was one game against a bad regular season defense and the Nets' ORtg was worse than the average playoff ORtg in '16-17 by a large margin.

Not saying that wasn't great Nets offense, nor that they can't possibly get better, but I think it's important to recognize what the Nets are up against in order to be what we think of as "among the very best ever" in their team offense, and yeah, defense will be a huge concern.

[Doctor MJ]

Watching the Nets play, I wonder what Kyrie can add to this team and can't really think of much. The logical thing would be to trade him for more depth and defense once there's a trade market for him again.

I really don't know what's going to happen now that we have this clear sense that Nash was Durant's pick and Kyrie wasn't happy about it. At the time we knew Durant was the one with the closer Nash connection, and I had simply assumed that Durant & Kyrie were making these decisions together.

Regardless, I don't know why any team would give up valuable assets for Kyrie. No matter how talented he is, you have to be able to be confident that he'll be happy and produce for year day-in-day-out and year-in-year-out, and no one anywhere should be confident of that. If a trade were to happen with a competent team, it would need to be a situation where they weren't giving up anything they really wanted to keep.

As far as helping them in theory, I think if you stagger the minutes, and everybody's happy, Kyrie can absolutely help the team in the regular season and be a great bulwark against playoff injuries. But of course, how do you keep him happy?

[therealbig3]

Watching the Nets play, I wonder what Kyrie can add to this team and can't really think of much. The logical thing would be to trade him for more depth and defense once there's a trade market for him again.

I really don't know what's going to happen now that we have this clear sense that Nash was Durant's pick and Kyrie wasn't happy about it. At the time we knew Durant was the one with the closer Nash connection, and I had simply assumed that Durant & Kyrie were making these decisions together.

Regardless, I don't know why any team would give up valuable assets for Kyrie. No matter how talented he is, you have to be able to be confident that he'll be happy and produce for year day-in-day-out and year-in-year-out, and no one anywhere should be confident of that. If a trade were to happen with a competent team, it would need to be a situation where they weren't giving up anything they really wanted to keep.

As far as helping them in theory, I think if you stagger the minutes, and everybody's happy, Kyrie can absolutely help the team in the regular season and be a great bulwark against playoff injuries. But of course, how do you keep him happy?

Fair points, and I guess time will tell, but just so you're aware, that report that Kyrie wasn't happy with Nash is unsubstantiated...there have literally been no other reports about that ever being the case, and it kind of flies in the face of everything else Nets fans have read and heard ever since the hire. I wouldn't take that as fact, moreso just speculation by someone wanting to capitalize on all the negative attention on Kyrie.

[therealbig3]

Nets offense looks terrifying, but if we're going by one-game sample sizes, giving up 115 to a Magic squad that hadn't cracked 100 points in four straight games is kind of concerning. What would a team like Milwaukee/Boston/Indiana do to them in the playoffs?

For perspective:

That was one game against a bad regular season defense and the Nets' ORtg was worse than the average playoff ORtg in '16-17 by a large margin.

Not saying that wasn't great Nets offense, nor that they can't possibly get better, but I think it's important to recognize what the Nets are up against in order to be what we think of as "among the very best ever" in their team offense, and yeah, defense will be a huge concern.

Not sure what you're getting at here, the Nets Orating was 119 in that game...that would have been tied for 2nd out of all 2017 playoff teams. Not below the average by a large margin.

Agreed, defense is a legit concern. It is theoretically possible to be so good offensively that you can win despite a below average defense (the Nash Suns were very much in contention for a title with that model), but it's rare.

[Clyde Frazier]

Whatever happens with the nets, if KD puts together an elite healthy season, more power to him. Truly beating the odds.

[Doctor MJ]

Nets offense looks terrifying, but if we're going by one-game sample sizes, giving up 115 to a Magic squad that hadn't cracked 100 points in four straight games is kind of concerning. What would a team like Milwaukee/Boston/Indiana do to them in the playoffs?

For perspective:

That was one game against a bad regular season defense and the Nets' ORtg was worse than the average playoff ORtg in '16-17 by a large margin.

Not saying that wasn't great Nets offense, nor that they can't possibly get better, but I think it's important to recognize what the Nets are up against in order to be what we think of as "among the very best ever" in their team offense, and yeah, defense will be a huge concern.

Not sure what you're getting at here, the Nets Orating was 119 in that game...that would have been tied for 2nd out of all 2017 playoff teams. Not below the average by a large margin.

Agreed, defense is a legit concern. It is theoretically possible to be so good offensively that you can win despite a below average defense (the Nash Suns were very much in contention for a title with that model), but it's rare.

Ah, I was thinking in terms of how good the offenses were with their top players on. My apologies.

[therealbig3]

Whatever happens with the nets, if KD puts together an elite healthy season, more power to him. Truly beating the odds.

I honestly felt that a 75-80% KD would have been an enormous success.

He's on pace to have maybe the best offensive season of his career at this rate.

[freethedevil]

Whatever happens with the nets, if KD puts together an elite healthy season, more power to him. Truly beating the odds.

I honestly felt that a 75-80% KD would have been an enormous success.

He's on pace to have maybe the best offensive season of his career at this rate.

Here's a reminder the nets wee one of the worst teams in the league with just durant and co.

[therealbig3]

Whatever happens with the nets, if KD puts together an elite healthy season, more power to him. Truly beating the odds.

I honestly felt that a 75-80% KD would have been an enormous success.

He's on pace to have maybe the best offensive season of his career at this rate.

Here's a reminder the nets wee one of the worst teams in the league with just durant and co.

I mean, I'm mainly talking about him as an individual. He's been individually brilliant, and has been a high impact player so far this year.

What do you mean they were one of the worst teams in the league btw? Even when struggling, they were around .500 with a decent MOV, so they weren't that bad.

[bondom34]

IIRC the Nets were just kind of weird before in terms of record. They had lost to some really bad teams and beaten some good ones.

[StepBackCrack]

Nets' struggled in some games this season not because of KD. He has been consistently great so far on both ends. They are still basically a new team trying to gel and find the right rotations with a rookie coach. DJ playing a lot of minutes hurt them often since he is pretty awful and looks pretty done. Nash made some mistakes but it seems he is learning. Playing Brown was a massive change the team needed. Didn't Heat big 3 team start the season 8-9 or something btw? Kind of similar situation here except with a rookie coach. The Nets team will fully get rolling mid season probably but they will have to get a C first.

[freethedevil]

I honestly felt that a 75-80% KD would have been an enormous success.

He's on pace to have maybe the best offensive season of his career at this rate.

Here's a reminder the nets wee one of the worst teams in the league with just durant and co.

I mean, I'm mainly talking about him as an individual. He's been individually brilliant, and has been a high impact player so far this year.

What do you mean they were one of the worst teams in the league btw? Even when struggling, they were around .500 with a decent MOV, so they weren't that bad.

Well one, saying they were .500 and that they had a "decent" mov only really works if you include when kyrie played(and if you look at their slashlines, you might notice kyrie has signifcantly more assists and points.....), or the other game where neithe rplayed and they still blew out their opponent This is what it looks like when a team that was fine without kyrie last year trades dimwiddle for durant:

a 6 point win over the nuggets.
a 13 point loss to the thunder
a 18 point loss to the hawks.
a 2 point loss to the hornets
a 7 point win against the cavs.

They had a -4 mov despite playing very weak competition and were 2-3. What exactly makes durant different than bradley beal last year?

Durant recovering from an achilles is very nice, but calling this the best offensive season of his career--so far-- and implying he has had enormous success is baffling.

[StepBackCrack]

Here's a reminder the nets wee one of the worst teams in the league with just durant and co.

I mean, I'm mainly talking about him as an individual. He's been individually brilliant, and has been a high impact player so far this year.

What do you mean they were one of the worst teams in the league btw? Even when struggling, they were around .500 with a decent MOV, so they weren't that bad.

Well one, saying they were .500 and that they had a "decent" mov only really works if you include when kyrie played(and if you look at their slashlines, you might notice kyrie has signifcantly more assists and points.....), or the other game where neithe rplayed and they still blew out their opponent This is what it looks like when a team that was fine without kyrie last year trades dimwiddle for durant:

a 6 point win over the nuggets.
a 13 point loss to the thunder
a 18 point loss to the hawks.
a 2 point loss to the hornets
a 7 point win against the cavs.

They had a -4 mov despite playing very weak competition and were 2-3. What exactly makes durant different than bradley beal last year?

Durant recovering from an achilles is very nice, but calling this the best offensive season of his career--so far-- and implying he has had enormous success is baffling.

Do you even watch the Nets? How many games you watched for them this season? You don't seem to know what you are talking about. Their issues are not star-related at all. You think this team will not get rolling with some time with their rookie coach? This team is still figuring out how to play together and Nash is still figuring out the best rotations for the team. That takes time. Heat big 3 team did have a slow start as well.

And Durant is absolutely having a great season so far for those who actually watch Nets games.

[freethedevil]

I mean, I'm mainly talking about him as an individual. He's been individually brilliant, and has been a high impact player so far this year.

What do you mean they were one of the worst teams in the league btw? Even when struggling, they were around .500 with a decent MOV, so they weren't that bad.

Well one, saying they were .500 and that they had a "decent" mov only really works if you include when kyrie played(and if you look at their slashlines, you might notice kyrie has signifcantly more assists and points.....), or the other game where neithe rplayed and they still blew out their opponent This is what it looks like when a team that was fine without kyrie last year trades dimwiddle for durant:

a 6 point win over the nuggets.
a 13 point loss to the thunder
a 18 point loss to the hawks.
a 2 point loss to the hornets
a 7 point win against the cavs.

They had a -4 mov despite playing very weak competition and were 2-3. What exactly makes durant different than bradley beal last year?

Durant recovering from an achilles is very nice, but calling this the best offensive season of his career--so far-- and implying he has had enormous success is baffling.

Do you even watch the Nets? How many games you watched for them this season? You don't seem to know what you are talking about. Their issues are not star-related at all. You think this team will not get rolling with some time with their rookie coach? This team is still figuring out how to play together and Nash is still figuring out the best rotations for the team. That takes time. Heat big 3 team did have a slow start as well.

And Durant is absolutely having a great season so far for those who actually watch Nets games.

The heat were not -4 against terrible competition, no. And if you've watched the games with no star help, that rookie coach had the nets humming like a well oiled machine. With kyrie they looked like a well oiled machine. But when its just durant they look like the 19 wizards.

[therealbig3]

Well one, saying they were .500 and that they had a "decent" mov only really works if you include when kyrie played(and if you look at their slashlines, you might notice kyrie has signifcantly more assists and points.....), or the other game where neithe rplayed and they still blew out their opponent This is what it looks like when a team that was fine without kyrie last year trades dimwiddle for durant:

They had a -4 mov despite playing very weak competition and were 2-3. What exactly makes durant different than bradley beal last year?

Durant recovering from an achilles is very nice, but calling this the best offensive season of his career--so far-- and implying he has had enormous success is baffling.

Do you even watch the Nets? How many games you watched for them this season? You don't seem to know what you are talking about. Their issues are not star-related at all. You think this team will not get rolling with some time with their rookie coach? This team is still figuring out how to play together and Nash is still figuring out the best rotations for the team. That takes time. Heat big 3 team did have a slow start as well.

And Durant is absolutely having a great season so far for those who actually watch Nets games.

The heat were not -4 against terrible competition, no. And if you've watched the games with no star help, that rookie coach had the nets humming like a well oiled machine. With kyrie they looked like a well oiled machine. But when its just durant they look like the 19 wizards.

The Nets have only played 4 games without Kyrie and with Durant, in which they're 3-1 with an MOV of +1.8 (+7 over 4 games). One of their wins was over Denver, who is projected to be one of the better teams in the league. So your premise here is off...the Nets have played at an above average level with just Durant, and he's individually putting up awesome numbers, and impact metrics like on/off paint him to be outstanding.

Anyway, you're trying to draw definitive conclusions off tiny sample sizes, but even among that tiny sample size, it's not saying what you want it to say.

EDIT: take away the last game with Harden, and they're still 2-1 with an MOV of -0.3 (-1 over 3 games). Essentially neutral. And an even smaller sample size.

[therealbig3]

IIRC the Nets were just kind of weird before in terms of record. They had lost to some really bad teams and beaten some good ones.

I mean, if you look at their schedule, there are only 4 teams they've played so far that are projected to be among the elite teams in the league: Boston, Utah, Philadelphia, and Denver.

They're 4-0 against them, 3 of them being blowout wins. Didn't have Harden for any of those games. Didn't have Kyrie for Denver. Didn't have Durant for Utah. Didn't have Kyrie OR Durant for Philly.

They've shown up for the elite competition, and have dropped the ball against the more mediocre competition. That's annoying, but it's better than the reverse.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Do you even watch the Nets? How many games you watched for them this season? You don't seem to know what you are talking about. Their issues are not star-related at all. You think this team will not get rolling with some time with their rookie coach? This team is still figuring out how to play together and Nash is still figuring out the best rotations for the team. That takes time. Heat big 3 team did have a slow start as well.

And Durant is absolutely having a great season so far for those who actually watch Nets games.

The heat were not -4 against terrible competition, no. And if you've watched the games with no star help, that rookie coach had the nets humming like a well oiled machine. With kyrie they looked like a well oiled machine. But when its just durant they look like the 19 wizards.

The Nets have only played 4 games without Kyrie and with Durant, in which they're 3-1 with an MOV of +1.8 (+7 over 4 games). One of their wins was over Denver, who is projected to be one of the better teams in the league. So your premise here is off...the Nets have played at an above average level with just Durant, and he's individually putting up awesome numbers, and impact metrics like on/off paint him to be outstanding.

Anyway, you're trying to draw definitive conclusions off tiny sample sizes, but even among that tiny sample size, it's not saying what you want it to say.

EDIT: take away the last game with Harden, and they're still 2-1 with an MOV of -0.3 (-1 over 3 games). Essentially neutral. And an even smaller sample size.

I mean looking at a 4 game MOV sample just doesn’t make sense lol, they had a bad game and were trending up

Durants had a great year so far, I would expect his impact to be off the charts because the team was able to function without him which isn’t a knock on him

I don’t agree this is a peak Durant offensive year, but I haven’t seen him a lot so I might be wrong. I think if you replace his Durant with 2017 Durant he’d do better, but he’s just in a position to do better now.

[freethedevil]

The heat were not -4 against terrible competition, no. And if you've watched the games with no star help, that rookie coach had the nets humming like a well oiled machine. With kyrie they looked like a well oiled machine. But when its just durant they look like the 19 wizards.

The Nets have only played 4 games without Kyrie and with Durant, in which they're 3-1 with an MOV of +1.8 (+7 over 4 games). One of their wins was over Denver, who is projected to be one of the better teams in the league. So your premise here is off...the Nets have played at an above average level with just Durant, and he's individually putting up awesome numbers, and impact metrics like on/off paint him to be outstanding.

Anyway, you're trying to draw definitive conclusions off tiny sample sizes, but even among that tiny sample size, it's not saying what you want it to say.

EDIT: take away the last game with Harden, and they're still 2-1 with an MOV of -0.3 (-1 over 3 games). Essentially neutral. And an even smaller sample size.[/quote

I mean looking at a 4 game MOV sample just doesn’t make sense lol, they had a bad game and were trending up

Durants had a great year so far, I would expect his impact to be off the charts because the team was able to function without him which isn’t a knock on him

I don’t agree this is a peak Durant offensive year, but I haven’t seen him a lot so I might be wrong. I think if you replace his Durant with 2017 Durant he’d do better, but he’s just in a position to do better now.

Well going off luck adjusted rapm, Duant isn't even top 7....

[MyUniBroDavis]

The Nets have only played 4 games without Kyrie and with Durant, in which they're 3-1 with an MOV of +1.8 (+7 over 4 games). One of their wins was over Denver, who is projected to be one of the better teams in the league. So your premise here is off...the Nets have played at an above average level with just Durant, and he's individually putting up awesome numbers, and impact metrics like on/off paint him to be outstanding.

Anyway, you're trying to draw definitive conclusions off tiny sample sizes, but even among that tiny sample size, it's not saying what you want it to say.

EDIT: take away the last game with Harden, and they're still 2-1 with an MOV of -0.3 (-1 over 3 games). Essentially neutral. And an even smaller sample size.[/quote

I mean looking at a 4 game MOV sample just doesn’t make sense lol, they had a bad game and were trending up

Durants had a great year so far, I would expect his impact to be off the charts because the team was able to function without him which isn’t a knock on him

I don’t agree this is a peak Durant offensive year, but I haven’t seen him a lot so I might be wrong. I think if you replace his Durant with 2017 Durant he’d do better, but he’s just in a position to do better now.

Well going off luck adjusted rapm, Duant isn't even top 7....

If you’re talking about 2017 I would expect his impact to be pretty low for pretty obvious reasons lol

You’re taking an offense built around dynamic movement and off ball options and durants more of a safety valve to give them consistency. I’m pretty sure that played out pretty well in the playoffs

I don’t really like impact metrics for playoff runs (also keep in mind kick adjustment only reverts to average on defense, not openness and stuff like that) but im pretty sure KD shows up as top of the league tier in impact metrics for his golden state runs

[freethedevil]

Well going off luck adjusted rapm, Duant isn't even top 7....

If you’re talking about 2017 I would expect his impact to be pretty low for pretty obvious reasons lol

You’re taking an offense built around dynamic movement and off ball options and durants more of a safety valve to give them consistency. I’m pretty sure that played out pretty well in the playoffs

I don’t really like impact metrics for playoff runs (also keep in mind kick adjustment only reverts to average on defense, not openness and stuff like that) but im pretty sure KD shows up as top of the league tier in impact metrics for his golden state runs

I'm talking about 2021 my guy.