The Lebron Thread (Pt. 3)

[PCProductions]

In the Pacer and Spur series, Heat were a minus 47 with Wade on, and a plus 70 with him off

Did you watch the Finals?

Wade absolutely carried the Heat in many halves and had a number of huge games in the Finals.
He even outplayed Lebron in 3/7 games during that series.

They would have lost in 4 or 5 to the Spurs without him.

Miami would not have gotten past Chicago or Indy without him either.

[JulesWinnfield]

In the Pacer and Spur series, Heat were a minus 47 with Wade on, and a plus 70 with him off

Did you watch the Finals?

Wade absolutely carried the Heat in many halves and had a number of huge games in the Finals.
He even outplayed Lebron in 3/7 games during that series.

They would have lost in 4 or 5 to the Spurs without him.

Miami would not have gotten past Chicago or Indy without him either.

D-Wade didn't carry anything. He had one or two vintage games all postseason, and some others that only looked very good if you graded on a curve relative to his otherwise mediocre playoffs. People throwing parades when he scores high teens. Jason Terry was a more impactful offensive player in Dallas run 2 years ago. Wade didn't even play on an all star caliber level in this postseason let alone superstar, and the Heat offense looked much better with the spacing provided by the extra shooting with him off. Plus his defense was largely trash for much of the postseason despite some splash plays

He did step it up in the finals though (although again his series only looks good if you compare it to the three that preceded it), and Im not saying they would or wouldn't have won this title without him, +/- in short samples can be misleading. But don't try to sell people on Wade's postseason being anything other than mediocre

[RayBan-Sematra]

D-Wade didn't carry anything.

Actually he did.
There were many games where he carried the offense for long periods of even entire halves.

When you are in a close game and everyone is struggling to score those points and assists he provided become very valuable and are not easily replaceable.

He had one or two vintage games all postseason, and some others that only looked very good if you graded on a curve relative to his otherwise mediocre playoffs.

He had more then a handful of All-Star level games.
On the whole I would call him a borderline All-Star since obviously he had many games below that level also.

He didn't even play on an all star caliber level in this postseason let alone superstar

Overall I might agree with you on this.

Plus his defense was largely trash for much of the postseason despite some splash plays.

I disagree. His defensive was generally good/solid except for maybe 2-3 games where his mobility was really shot.
He also had a handful or more of games where his mobility was better and his defense was elite.

He did step it up in the finals though, and Im not saying they would or wouldn't have won this title without him, +/- in short samples can be misleading.

They definitly wouldn't have beaten Chicago or Indy without him let alone the Spurs.

But don't try to sell people on Wade's postseason being anything other than mediocre

It was mediocre but he was still the Heats 2nd best player and he was quite important to their success.

[toodles23]

Did you watch the Finals?

Wade absolutely carried the Heat in many halves and had a number of huge games in the Finals.
He even outplayed Lebron in 3/7 games during that series.

They would have lost in 4 or 5 to the Spurs without him.

Miami would not have gotten past Chicago or Indy without him either.

Outplayed Lebron in 3 of 7 games? He had one game that was better - game 4. Game 5 is debateable between the two. Other than that, he has no case for any game - he sucked ass in games 1 and 2, was below average in game 3 (Lebron sucked too, but he still clearly outplayed Wade), was mediocre in game 6, and was obviously completely outplayed by Lebron in game 7. What are the other 2 games?

[E-Balla]

Wade outplayed Lebron in game 5 I would say. IDK where 3 games comes from though.

[Rasho_libre]

Wade didn't carry crap, he finally stepped up in game 4 and 7 when they needed him. He had wide open looks all series, if he capitalized this wouldn't be a 7 game series. Lebron was carrying his corpse also through three rounds. When it mattered wade showed up for sure.

[Rasho_libre]

Do people understand that he had two triple doubles in this finals runs, one 30-10-10 trip dub and a close out for the ages. Don't make this about wade, it's a team sport. When wade was off the floor Lebron scoring and the offence looked better.

[MagicFan32]

top 10 all time, but not top 5. he took a shortcut to get his rings, that's a fact. when was the last time a player in his class, in their prime jumped ship to another hall of famers team? hell the most recent one was charles barkley and kevin johnson was no d wade.

lets not forget the fact that while he had many great moments, he also got very lucky that chris bosh and ray allen saved his legacy because lebron made some terrible plays at the end of game 6 that people simply gloss over now. he will never surpass MJ, so lets halt that narrative. has he passed kobe? yes, kobe's last finals mvp was a joke and makes people overlook how awful he was in 10' game 7.

i say, jordan, russell, wilt, magic, kareem, hakeem, duncan, and shaq are ahead of him. many of you will scoff at me putting shaq or hakeem there, but they were just as dominant as lebron, in different ways.

[PCProductions]

Wade? Carrying? More like occasionally servicing the team up to expectation. He's hurt, so I'm not going to fling out criticisms, but this was Lebron's title by a country mile. See ElGee's work if you even think this series is in question.

[JulesWinnfield]

top 10 all time, but not top 5. he took a shortcut to get his rings, that's a fact. when was the last time a player in his class, in their prime jumped ship to another hall of famers team? hell the most recent one was charles barkley and kevin johnson was no d wade.

too caught up in name power and not watching the games. There was one HOF player on the Heat in this postseason. Get out of 2006 and join the rest of us in the present

Won last year with Bosh starting fewer than half the games in the playoffs because of injury and Wade on one knee delaying surgery, won this year with Bosh playing like hot garbage (outplayed in almost every series) and Wade even more limited. Leading his team in scoring, rebounding and assists and taking on a slew of varying defensive assignments. Beasting in elimination games consistently when facing elimination 5 times. This cast despite the names is not better nor more balanced than any of MJ or Kobe's title casts (hell people seem to not even mention anymore that Kobe was only the alpha in 2 of his rings when these debates come up), and he's asked to do more. Shortcut is the last word that applies.

[RayBan-Sematra]

Wade outplayed Lebron in G3 (better defense and more efficient scoring), G4 & G5.
He also had a very good G7.

Guys we just watched the Finals.
You don't remember some of the 1st halves where Lebron couldn't hit a shot to save his life and Wade carried the offense and kept it close?

[WinisKing]

So what does Lebron need to work on in the offseason?

The 2 most important aspect of his game that needs improving is pull-up jumpshots (which in my opinion is vital especially as he exits his athletic prime)and a postgame that consists more than just a hook or turnaround fadeaway

[JulesWinnfield]

Even in D-Wades "Great" Game 4, the Heat created separation in the 2nd half with him on the bench. Took a tie game in the 2nd half, Wade goes out and they went up 8 in quick fashion, led relatively comfortably the rest of the way. He did hold the fort for a couple minute stretch with Lebron on the bench and pushed a 7 point lead to 11, but even in his defining moment in the series he wasn't even part of the defining run of the game.

[therealbig3]

Wade never played better defense than LeBron in the Finals, just stop it. Half the time, Wade was cherry picking or not even back on defense yet after complaining to the refs for a call.

LeBron outplayed him in games 1, 2, 5, 6, and 7. Wade outplayed him in game 4. If you want to argue game 5, go for it, but I think LeBron had the better game at the end of the day.

Not even sure why you would want to argue who was better in game 3, since both of them sucked big time.

I can't believe we're going to have revisionist history literally a day after the Finals...Wade was ok in the Finals, but he had his share of stinkers and was CLEARLY, INARGUABLY, and SIGNIFICANTLY worse than LeBron in this series. He was also only ok compared to the rest of his playoffs, which were dreadful. For typical D-Wade, his Finals weren't all that great either. And despite whatever stats he put up, he was doing so at the expense of LeBron and the rest of his teammates...Miami played SO much better with Wade on the bench throughout the series. I honestly think SA was relieved whenever they saw Wade enter the game, because they were able to then load up on LeBron and not have to worry about a shooter going off.

Wade was one of the worst "star" 2nd options ever this year. Guys like Pippen, Worthy, Kobe, Drexler, etc...they make 2013 playoffs Wade look like a scrub.

[therealbig3]

And none of that is to say anything bad about prime D-Wade, or even the D-Wade we saw for most of the regular season...but Wade in the playoffs this year was horrible, there's really no way to spin it. Non-factor against Milwaukee...I gave him the benefit of the doubt because I figured they didn't need him...a non-factor against Chicago...I gave him the benefit of the doubt again, because I figured the Heat once again didn't need him...but he was once again horrible against Indiana, in a 7 game series, in which they quite clearly could have benefitted from him stepping up. And then an ok series against SA which would have ended a lot sooner if he played anywhere close to his regular season level instead of merely get in the way of LeBron and the shooters most of the time.

[nikomCH]

The Heat are finished winning titles with this team. I'm hoping they make the mistake of thinking they can win it again next season by bringing back mostly the same core, because they won't stand a chance. I think LeBron has peaked and his best seasons are behind him, Wade is finished, and Bosh isn't good enough to be a 2nd option on a championship caliber team.

What's crazy to me is that the Heat lost every important game in this series and still won. Typically the winner of Games 1, 3, and 5 will win the series. They lost all those games and still won. Funny part is back in 2011 they won Games 1 and 3 and lost the series

[toodles23]

The Heat are finished winning titles with this team. I'm hoping they make the mistake of thinking they can win it again next season by bringing back mostly the same core, because they won't stand a chance. I think LeBron has peaked and his best seasons are behind him, Wade is finished, and Bosh isn't good enough to be a 2nd option on a championship caliber team.

What's crazy to me is that the Heat lost every important game in this series and still won. Typically the winner of Games 1, 3, and 5 will win the series. They lost all those games and still won. Funny part is back in 2011 they won Games 1 and 3 and lost the series

Silly post. If you want to say the Heat aren't winning next year, it would be a lot smarter to point to the supporting cast being old rather than the big 3. At worst, Lebron will be equally good next year, Bosh will be the same, and Wade's play is entirely dependent on health. If he's healthy next year in the playoffs, he'll be 10x better, even if he has an extra year of age. The smarter question to ask is whether 37 year old Allen, 34 year old Battier, and 34 year old Chris Andersen (also, to a much smaller extent, 33 year old Mike Miller and 33 year old Haslem) can still bring it next year, or what Pat Riley might bring in to replace those guys.

[LikeABosh]

Wade outplayed Lebron in G3 (better defense and more efficient scoring), G4 & G5.
He also had a very good G7.

Guys we just watched the Finals.
You don't remember some of the 1st halves where Lebron couldn't hit a shot to save his life and Wade carried the offense and kept it close?

I don't remember Wade carrying the offense other than game 4

[nikomCH]

The Heat are finished winning titles with this team. I'm hoping they make the mistake of thinking they can win it again next season by bringing back mostly the same core, because they won't stand a chance. I think LeBron has peaked and his best seasons are behind him, Wade is finished, and Bosh isn't good enough to be a 2nd option on a championship caliber team.

What's crazy to me is that the Heat lost every important game in this series and still won. Typically the winner of Games 1, 3, and 5 will win the series. They lost all those games and still won. Funny part is back in 2011 they won Games 1 and 3 and lost the series

Silly post. If you want to say the Heat aren't winning next year, it would be a lot smarter to point to the supporting cast being old rather than the big 3. At worst, Lebron will be equally good next year, Bosh will be the same, and Wade's play is entirely dependent on health. If he's healthy next year in the playoffs, he'll be 10x better, even if he has an extra year of age. The smarter question to ask is whether 37 year old Allen, 34 year old Battier, and 34 year old Chris Andersen (also, to a much smaller extent, 33 year old Mike Miller and 33 year old Haslem) can still bring it next year, or what Pat Riley might bring in to replace those guys.

Those guys are more readily replaceable, the big 3 aren't.

1) No there's no guarantee LeBron will be "equally as good at worst" . People were arguing this as the GOAT season and you think he's just going to walk into next season do it again. Everyone gets burnt out eventually
2) Bosh being the same doesn't help their cause
3) Wade is constantly injured and not even worth bringing up anymore.

No team has made 4 consecutive Finals since the 80s. The Heat are lucky to play in a trash conference so that gives them a better chance to make it back (although if Rose ever returns the Bulls might finally be good again), but the West is always going to produce a tough team.

[Rasho_libre]

Oh how far we have come. Kobe fans are now just waiting for Lebron to start declining. Man they are scared at the momentum he is gaining. There is absolute 0 chance he comes back a worst player next year. Trust me.