'15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[HeartBreakKid]

This game is going to add a lot to the "Love isn't a superstar" thing.

[JordansBulls]

I had LeBron and Draymond ahead of Curry regardless of this series, unless Curry made them look awful, which clearly isn't happening.

huh? How? How is it even possible to have Draymond ahead of curry regardless of the series? Would be like trying to rank Worthy over Magic in 1989 when Magic tore his hamstring.

[Colbinii]

Would anyone here not vote for Curry #1 if the Warriors win the series and he struggles? I could see myself voting LeBron or Draymond #1 in that scenario.

Not sure how you could vote Lebron #1 if they lose when Curry was unanimous MVP and still would win the title no matter how bad he may have been. Not like Lebron is going thru the playoffs averaging 35 ppg or something like that. And Draymond really hasn't been all that great either. Probably a pick em between him, Klay and Steph in the playoffs.

If you value the fact that Curry missed 6 playoff games then LeBron could be ahead of Curry. If LeBron misses 6 of the first 8 playoff games for Cleveland then they don't even beat Detroit.

[RSCD3_]

This game is going to add a lot to the "Love isn't a superstar" thing.

Well against Golden State he has been getting lit up mercilessly. Would you start love in game 4 knowing that he is likely to hurt the defense more than he can help the offense, he's a good player vs a lot of teams but terrible against GS.

He has been the perkins of this matchup.

[JordansBulls]

Would anyone here not vote for Curry #1 if the Warriors win the series and he struggles? I could see myself voting LeBron or Draymond #1 in that scenario.

Not sure how you could vote Lebron #1 if they lose when Curry was unanimous MVP and still would win the title no matter how bad he may have been. Not like Lebron is going thru the playoffs averaging 35 ppg or something like that. And Draymond really hasn't been all that great either. Probably a pick em between him, Klay and Steph in the playoffs.

If you value the fact that Curry missed 6 playoff games then LeBron could be ahead of Curry. If LeBron misses 6 of the first 8 playoff games for Cleveland then they don't even beat Detroit.

Again you are acting like he has played 3 games total. He still has played 14 games after tonight which is more than Lebron even played in 2010 and didn't stop him from being ranked first despite losing with HCA.
People are acting like Curry has like a 15 PER or something, still has a 24 PER for the playoffs.

[therealbig3]

This game is going to add a lot to the "Love isn't a superstar" thing.

I think he's a good player, but this is pretty damning imo.

The Cavs put up a better fight last year against the Warriors without Love...they're getting blown off the court with Love...he sits out, and then they blow out the Warriors.

Sure, small sample size, playing at home vs on the road, etc, but Love has very clearly been a liability in pretty much every matchup they've had with the Warriors, and the only times they've been competitive has been when he hasn't played.

I think he's useful against most matchups, but against better teams that know how to expose defensive liabilities, especially a liability at PF, you need to be REALLY good offensively to counter that, and Love just isn't capable of that.

[Colbinii]

Again you are acting like he has played 3 games total. He still has played 14 games after tonight which is more than Lebron even played in 2010 and didn't stop him from being ranked first despite losing with HCA.

The point is that if any other player, specifically LeBron, in the NBA misses that many games, their team likely doesn't make it out of the first round.

[HeartBreakKid]

This game is going to add a lot to the "Love isn't a superstar" thing.

Well against Golden State he has been getting lit up mercilessly. Would you start love in game 4 knowing that he is likely to hurt the defense more than he can help the offense, he's a good player vs a lot of teams but terrible against GS.

He has been the perkins of this matchup.

I really thought Cleveland would win this game. They're hungry, with Love down that's even more reason to play hard and they have home court.


With that being said, going forward it's going to be hard for Lue to justify not playing Love. I would not start Love and would ride this current starting line up to see if there is some magic.

The real question is, if Love comes off the bench, does he still finish the games?

It's not even the defense, Richard Jefferson is playing really good off ball - not just spotting up but making clutch drives and cuts, he's playing at a pace that Love doesn't play at, and GSW hasn't adjusted to Richard Jefferson all series.

You also have Channing Frye who is still being underutilized. Just watching Frye tonight, the guy was making some amazing defensive plays, and that's supposed to be his weakness.

People looked way too deeply into the first games not realizing that the Cavs have many different tactics to adapt too, it's possible that one of them sticks as a good gameplan against GSW - and with some hot streaks they could pull out a close win.

[JordansBulls]

Again you are acting like he has played 3 games total. He still has played 14 games after tonight which is more than Lebron even played in 2010 and didn't stop him from being ranked first despite losing with HCA.

The point is that if any other player, specifically LeBron, in the NBA misses that many games, their team likely doesn't make it out of the first round.

Disagree again. Like I mentioned the issue with Cleveland is having 3 #1 options on the team. It works fine if two #1 options but not 3. Kyrie with Love would be good enough to still win the east.

[Colbinii]

Disagree again. Like I mentioned the issue with Cleveland is having 3 #1 options on the team. It works fine if two #1 options but not 3. Kyrie with Love would be good enough to still win the east.

Nothing supports that notion. Neither Love nor Kyrie could do anything in the regular season without LeBron, so what makes you think they can now?

Kyrie and Love wouldn't win the east

We can disagree, but I value missing time in the post-season a lot more than regular season. Would Curry be #1 if he played 50 games during the regular season?

[JordansBulls]

Disagree again. Like I mentioned the issue with Cleveland is having 3 #1 options on the team. It works fine if two #1 options but not 3. Kyrie with Love would be good enough to still win the east.

Nothing supports that notion. Neither Love nor Kyrie could do anything in the regular season without LeBron, so what makes you think they can now?

Kyrie and Love wouldn't win the east

We can disagree, but I value missing time in the post-season a lot more than regular season. Would Curry be #1 if he played 50 games during the regular season?

Because Kyrie and Love without Lebron and knowing it would play how they were used to playing when they were the #1 option. Totally different mindset when that is not the case.

And the east was garbage this year, they could easily win the east.

[Colbinii]

Disagree again. Like I mentioned the issue with Cleveland is having 3 #1 options on the team. It works fine if two #1 options but not 3. Kyrie with Love would be good enough to still win the east.

Nothing supports that notion. Neither Love nor Kyrie could do anything in the regular season without LeBron, so what makes you think they can now?

Kyrie and Love wouldn't win the east

We can disagree, but I value missing time in the post-season a lot more than regular season. Would Curry be #1 if he played 50 games during the regular season?

Because Kyrie and Love without Lebron and knowing it would play how they were used to playing when they were the #1 option. Totally different mindset when that is not the case.

And the east was garbage this year, they could easily win the east.

Myself and the stats respectfully disagree, but it is besides the point.

Missing 6 playoff games is a huge deal to me, obviously bigger to me than it is to you, which is part of the fun of this discussion

[JordansBulls]

Nothing supports that notion. Neither Love nor Kyrie could do anything in the regular season without LeBron, so what makes you think they can now?

Kyrie and Love wouldn't win the east

We can disagree, but I value missing time in the post-season a lot more than regular season. Would Curry be #1 if he played 50 games during the regular season?

Because Kyrie and Love without Lebron and knowing it would play how they were used to playing when they were the #1 option. Totally different mindset when that is not the case.

And the east was garbage this year, they could easily win the east.

Myself and the stats respectfully disagree, but it is besides the point.

Missing 6 playoff games is a huge deal to me, obviously bigger to me than it is to you, which is part of the fun of this discussion

Just saying it Is absurd to rank someone ahead of Curry if GS wins title. Not like he was out entire playoffs and he did play like an all time great in key moments and huge games that they needed to win.

[Doctor MJ]

So yeah, that played out a bit different.

[kayess]

So yeah, that played out a bit different.

I mean yeah, we already know Love and Irving are mega liabilities against the GS's/SA's of the world.

Klay/Steph continue to underperform, Irving shows up and isn't a mega liability, so the result isn't too surprising when you consider what happened last year.

[bondom34]

GOAT offense again?

[mikejames23]

I called this win in the LeBron thread when Love was doubtful. Love didn't play, was replaced a guy who barely sees playing time anymore, and they win this game handily.

Anyway, I am not overly concerned for GSW. At some point, Steph and Klay will hit their shots, as they have done all season. I would just like to see a good entertaining series rather than a short one, however.

[E-Balla]

I called this win in the LeBron thread when Love was doubtful. Love didn't play, was replaced a guy who barely sees playing time anymore, and they win this game handily.

Anyway, I am not overly concerned for GSW. At some point, Steph and Klay will hit their shots, as they have done all season. I would just like to see a good entertaining series rather than a short one, however.

Nothing entertaining about 3 blowouts man. I'd rather see a contested sweep like OKC vs Dallas in 2012.



Mid Finals update to my top 5:

1. Russell Westbrook


Was writing up why Lebron was the easy choice at number one when I realized I couldn't explain why he was over Westbrook. Westbrook had the better regular season, better first round, better second round (I mean look at who he played), and vs Golden State he averaged 27/7/11/4 on 51 TS% with a 14 TOV% (Lebron is averaging 25/10/8 on 53 TS% with a 19 TOV%). OKC played 2 of the GOAT teams in the playoffs and they won one series while taking the other to 7. Gotta give it to him.

2. Lebron James


Easy choice. He's been underwhelming in the Finals and I had him first before seeing him play worse than Westbrook vs Golden State. Last game was very good but he basically just played D and held the lead after Kyrie got them the lead in the first. Hell his 2nd quarter performance even let them back in the game. Not bashing what's a good game but he wasn't as good as his boxscore would indicate. Still he's good enough for the 2nd spot here so he's doing something well.

3. Kawhi Leonard


Best regular season defensive player and slightly best offensive player on a top 5 offense. He was 4th in my initial rankings and he maintained his standing here (someone else who's pretty obvious at this point dropped). His performance vs OKC was highly criticized but he was good for half the series (literally 3 out of 6 games) and he averaged 23/7/4 on 55 TS% while being the 2nd best player on the team. Not amazing but very good and good enough to be top 3.

4. Kevin Durant


His regular season was around 5th to me and his postseason performance was below what is expected from him but Draymond played so bad against his defense he robbed what should've been his spot. Sometimes you forget just how toolsy KD is but his domination of Draymond defensively made us remember. He also showed up well against San Antonio so even though his performance against Dallas was painful I had to pick him.

5. Stephen Curry


His GOAT regular season isn't taken lightly enough to drop him out completely but his postseason has been nothing short of a disaster. To start even when he's played he's been the 4th best playoff performer if I'm generous, there's no individual series where he was the best player on the floor (thanks to his injury in rounds 1 and 2 and his performance in round 3 and the Finals), and he missed 6 games (he could've missed the first 2 against Cleveland too because he wasn't tipping the scales at all or even really impacting the game much). On top of that he's coming off a game where he was the worst player on his team and Cleveland seemed to make it an offensive priority to attack his defense. I'm big on the postseason so the injury dropped him to 3rd but his performance in the Finals has been anything but worthy. And the worst part of it all is that he's not even shooting badly. He has a 59 TS% in the Finals so far - he's just being super passive (and while I could let him slide for that when they were winning he can't get a pass when he has 2 pts, 4 tovs, and is down nearly 20 at half because he wants to make Vine clips by over dribbling instead of shooting).

[Quotatious]

Spoiler:

I called this win in the LeBron thread when Love was doubtful. Love didn't play, was replaced a guy who barely sees playing time anymore, and they win this game handily.

Anyway, I am not overly concerned for GSW. At some point, Steph and Klay will hit their shots, as they have done all season. I would just like to see a good entertaining series rather than a short one, however.

Nothing entertaining about 3 blowouts man. I'd rather see a contested sweep like OKC vs Dallas in 2012.



Mid Finals update to my top 5:

1. Russell Westbrook


Was writing up why Lebron was the easy choice at number one when I realized I couldn't explain why he was over Westbrook. Westbrook had the better regular season, better first round, better second round (I mean look at who he played), and vs Golden State he averaged 27/7/11/4 on 51 TS% with a 14 TOV% (Lebron is averaging 25/10/8 on 53 TS% with a 19 TOV%). OKC played 2 of the GOAT teams in the playoffs and they won one series while taking the other to 7. Gotta give it to him.

2. Lebron James


Easy choice. He's been underwhelming in the Finals and I had him first before seeing him play worse than Westbrook vs Golden State. Last game was very good but he basically just played D and held the lead after Kyrie got them the lead in the first. Hell his 2nd quarter performance even let them back in the game. Not bashing what's a good game but he wasn't as good as his boxscore would indicate. Still he's good enough for the 2nd spot here so he's doing something well.

3. Kawhi Leonard


Best regular season defensive player and slightly best offensive player on a top 5 offense. He was 4th in my initial rankings and he maintained his standing here (someone else who's pretty obvious at this point dropped). His performance vs OKC was highly criticized but he was good for half the series (literally 3 out of 6 games) and he averaged 23/7/4 on 55 TS% while being the 2nd best player on the team. Not amazing but very good and good enough to be top 3.

4. Kevin Durant


His regular season was around 5th to me and his postseason performance was below what is expected from him but Draymond played so bad against his defense he robbed what should've been his spot. Sometimes you forget just how toolsy KD is but his domination of Draymond defensively made us remember. He also showed up well against San Antonio so even though his performance against Dallas was painful I had to pick him.

5. Stephen Curry


His GOAT regular season isn't taken lightly enough to drop him out completely but his postseason has been nothing short of a disaster. To start even when he's played he's been the 4th best playoff performer if I'm generous, there's no individual series where he was the best player on the floor (thanks to his injury in rounds 1 and 2 and his performance in round 3 and the Finals), and he missed 6 games (he could've missed the first 2 against Cleveland too because he wasn't tipping the scales at all or even really impacting the game much). On top of that he's coming off a game where he was the worst player on his team and Cleveland seemed to make it an offensive priority to attack his defense. I'm big on the postseason so the injury dropped him to 3rd but his performance in the Finals has been anything but worthy. And the worst part of it all is that he's not even shooting badly. He has a 59 TS% in the Finals so far - he's just being super passive (and while I could let him slide for that when they were winning he can't get a pass when he has 2 pts, 4 tovs, and is down nearly 20 at half because he wants to make Vine clips by over dribbling instead of shooting)

Curry 5th?! Below Kawhi Leonard?! Give me a break, man. Wouldn't expect that coming from such a good poster as you usually are. Can't take that seriously.

Curry is averaging 24/6/6 on 61% TS in the playoffs. You know how many players averaged at least 24 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.5 apg for at least a 14-game playoff run? It happened 32 times, it's been done by 14 players - Rick Barry (once), Larry Bird (five times), Kobe Bryant (twice), Stephen Curry (this year so far), Clyde Drexler (once), Walt Frazier (once), Blake Griffin (once), James Harden (once), John Havlicek (three times), LeBron James (six times), Michael Jordan (five times), Dwyane Wade (twice), Jerry West (once), Russell Westbrook (twice).

If we add another criterion - 61% TS or more, there are only four such seasons - 1986 Bird, 2009 LeBron, 2015 Harden and 2016 Curry.

I'll take that "disaster" from my star player, any day of the week.

Also, even just implying that any Warrior other than Green and Thompson comes close to Curry in the playoffs, is ridiculous. Iguodala is a nice player, but I would never put a role player like him anywhere near a star like Curry, no matter how much worse Curry plays relative to his RS standards, or how much better Iguodala plays relative to his RS standards. Their standards are just so light years apart that Curry is still clearly better even as he's struggling a bit.

Obviously I also think that Curry has been disappointing in the playoffs so far, but that's mostly because his regular season standards were so absurdly high (and also the fact that he missed 6 playoff games due to injuries, is sort of an extenuation).

[KD35Brah]

Spoiler:

I called this win in the LeBron thread when Love was doubtful. Love didn't play, was replaced a guy who barely sees playing time anymore, and they win this game handily.

Anyway, I am not overly concerned for GSW. At some point, Steph and Klay will hit their shots, as they have done all season. I would just like to see a good entertaining series rather than a short one, however.

Nothing entertaining about 3 blowouts man. I'd rather see a contested sweep like OKC vs Dallas in 2012.



Mid Finals update to my top 5:

1. Russell Westbrook


Was writing up why Lebron was the easy choice at number one when I realized I couldn't explain why he was over Westbrook. Westbrook had the better regular season, better first round, better second round (I mean look at who he played), and vs Golden State he averaged 27/7/11/4 on 51 TS% with a 14 TOV% (Lebron is averaging 25/10/8 on 53 TS% with a 19 TOV%). OKC played 2 of the GOAT teams in the playoffs and they won one series while taking the other to 7. Gotta give it to him.

2. Lebron James


Easy choice. He's been underwhelming in the Finals and I had him first before seeing him play worse than Westbrook vs Golden State. Last game was very good but he basically just played D and held the lead after Kyrie got them the lead in the first. Hell his 2nd quarter performance even let them back in the game. Not bashing what's a good game but he wasn't as good as his boxscore would indicate. Still he's good enough for the 2nd spot here so he's doing something well.

3. Kawhi Leonard


Best regular season defensive player and slightly best offensive player on a top 5 offense. He was 4th in my initial rankings and he maintained his standing here (someone else who's pretty obvious at this point dropped). His performance vs OKC was highly criticized but he was good for half the series (literally 3 out of 6 games) and he averaged 23/7/4 on 55 TS% while being the 2nd best player on the team. Not amazing but very good and good enough to be top 3.

4. Kevin Durant


His regular season was around 5th to me and his postseason performance was below what is expected from him but Draymond played so bad against his defense he robbed what should've been his spot. Sometimes you forget just how toolsy KD is but his domination of Draymond defensively made us remember. He also showed up well against San Antonio so even though his performance against Dallas was painful I had to pick him.

5. Stephen Curry


His GOAT regular season isn't taken lightly enough to drop him out completely but his postseason has been nothing short of a disaster. To start even when he's played he's been the 4th best playoff performer if I'm generous, there's no individual series where he was the best player on the floor (thanks to his injury in rounds 1 and 2 and his performance in round 3 and the Finals), and he missed 6 games (he could've missed the first 2 against Cleveland too because he wasn't tipping the scales at all or even really impacting the game much). On top of that he's coming off a game where he was the worst player on his team and Cleveland seemed to make it an offensive priority to attack his defense. I'm big on the postseason so the injury dropped him to 3rd but his performance in the Finals has been anything but worthy. And the worst part of it all is that he's not even shooting badly. He has a 59 TS% in the Finals so far - he's just being super passive (and while I could let him slide for that when they were winning he can't get a pass when he has 2 pts, 4 tovs, and is down nearly 20 at half because he wants to make Vine clips by over dribbling instead of shooting).

Not to be "that" guy, but i don't see how KD is below Leonard and Curry is out of the top 2.

My list would be:

Curry
Lebron
Russ/KD
Kawhi