(LOCK THREAD) The LeBron James - 22-23 NBA Season Thread -NBA's All-Time Scoring Leader!

[penbeast0]

If you can't be civil, don't post here.

[LesGrossman]

Um, Durant did not do that. Durant left the same point in his career that Lebron left his team and he went to a team that was already established.


I'm not really sure why it matters that some stars never left their teams. Okay...they didn't exercise their rights as free agents, good for them.

Again, we are talking about being a victim and the difference i was trying to point out was not neccessarily that guys stay with their initial draft team but more that some guys fight through adversity and others take an easy path, and those guys shouldnt be seen as victims. The problem with "the decision" (apart from the extreme cringy setup) is not that he left his team after giving them several years to surround him with better personnel...thats a strawman. The real problem is that he broke an unwritten code. That rule being that in the best interest of sport competition, the top level of players do not team up. I'm not talking about all stars here, i talk about the top 10, maybe 15 players the league has to offer.

After taking his career into his own hands like that, i just cant bring myself to think "LeBron" and "victim" in the same sentence. Just doesnt make sense, theres a houndred guys in this league who would deserve pity more.

love, bosh and kyrie top 10 players but pippen, kareem/magic, mchale, west/baylor, shaq/kobe not lmao

Did you even care to read and try to understand what my point was? I didnt claim there were no teams of two or three great players, i was referring to how they were assembled and when and when not you can take a victim pose. I think yur post is out of line and would better fit the GB, to be honest.

[falcolombardi]

Again, we are talking about being a victim and the difference i was trying to point out was not neccessarily that guys stay with their initial draft team but more that some guys fight through adversity and others take an easy path, and those guys shouldnt be seen as victims. The problem with "the decision" (apart from the extreme cringy setup) is not that he left his team after giving them several years to surround him with better personnel...thats a strawman. The real problem is that he broke an unwritten code. That rule being that in the best interest of sport competition, the top level of players do not team up. I'm not talking about all stars here, i talk about the top 10, maybe 15 players the league has to offer.

After taking his career into his own hands like that, i just cant bring myself to think "LeBron" and "victim" in the same sentence. Just doesnt make sense, theres a houndred guys in this league who would deserve pity more.

love, bosh and kyrie top 10 players but pippen, kareem/magic, mchale, west/baylor, shaq/kobe not lmao

Did you even care to read and try to understand what my point was? I didnt claim there were no teams of two or three great players, i was referring to how they were assembled and when and when not you can take a victim pose. I think yur post is out of line and would better fit the GB, to be honest.

The problem with the decision is not that he left his team

The real problem is that he broke an unwritten code. That rule being that top level of players do not team up

Your argument keeps being that he doesnt have the right to play with other top players, only those like magic or jordan who were lucky to have those drafted into their teams (or there before they themselves were drafted) deserve the priviledge of good teammates

In other words you want a player to be heavily evaluated by how lucky he is with the team that drafred them. Those lucky enough to be drafted to a big market teams who get great teammates, coaches and general managers around them can be great

Those who are not lucky with that get to either waste their primes in sucky teams like garnett or leave to a good team and have it forever held against them

[G35]

Ah yes, the very real “code” permitting Magic and Kareem, Shaq and Kobe, Jordan and Pippen, Durant and Westbrook, Steph and Draymond and Klay, West and Baylor, etc. to all be on the same team and stay on that team and thrive together… and of course permits trades like Moses to Philadelphia and Garnett to Boston… but condemns any who take it upon themselves to search out those partners in free agency. Love that code.

- Magic drafted to the Lakers (yes #1)
- Kobe drafted to the Lakers (13th)
- Pippen drafted to the Bulls (5th pick, traded to Bulls on draft night)
- Durant and Westbrook I will lump together because they were both young and drafted close together
- Klay drafted to the Warriors (11th)

So lets apply context:
- does being the #1 draft pick or even a lottery pick ensure success? Obviously not, we have had multiple upon multiple threads about the 1st round pick busts e.g. Joe Barry Carroll, Ralph Sampson, Michael Olowakandi, Kwame Brown, Andrea Bargnani, Greg Oden, etc etc
- does being paired up with other talented players automatically equal success? Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't two great examples of success is Magic and Bird both achieving legendary success next to HoF talent...also Tim Duncan and David Robinson. OTOH, Dr. J alongside George McGinnis, World Free, Doug Collins...Hakeem and Ralph Sampson...Shaq and Penny...Chris Webber, Rasheed Wallace, Juwan Howard...Jason Kidd, Jamal Mashburn, Jim Jackson...Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki...etc etc

So outside of Magic and Bird, the rest of those that DID have success had to struggle to build a culture and identity:
- the Lakers Shaq/Kobe lost to the Utah Jazz two years in a row in the playoffs winning 1 game out of two series and were also swept by the Spurs in 1999
- the Bulls Jordan/Pippen lost to the Pistons three years in a row from 1988 to 1990 and many thought they could not win with Jordan playing the way he did
- the Warriors with Steph/Klay were seen as great shooters but there were questions on Steph's durability and if they should trade Klay for a good interior big man
- the Thunder KD/WB/Harden...this is the most mystifying group. They had the ideal talent and age to grow together and become a legit dynasty...I know what happened...but I don't know why it didn't work...I chalk it up to the modern NBA player

So outside of Magic and Bird (who are extreme outliers) it took several years for these players to come together and make it work. There were some hard playoff losses, lots of questions internally and externally from the media and fans. But they stayed the course and eventually there perseverance resulted in long term success.

The issue many people have with the way Lebron does things is it is short sighted and beneficial only to him.
- Lebron has never cultivated a young player to grow alongside and he had opportunities; they had the #1 pick in 2015 but traded it. That number 1 picked turned into Wiggins and he went to Minnesota, where he was maligned by many fans who said he was not worth the #1 pick and not worth the contract he received. But look at where he is now. Imo, this shows that developing a culture and willingness to develop talent has positive long lasting effects. It just depends on what your goals are...if you want to win one title or you want to be a potential dynasty
- As was said, look at the great teams of the past...Magic/KAJ, Bird/McHale/Parish, Jordan/Pippen, Isiah/Dumars/Laimbeer/Rodman, Kobe/Shaq, Duncan/Robinson, Duncan/Ginobli/Parker, Curry/Klay/Draymond. When we discuss these teams those names are forever tied together. Lebron never cultivated a teammate who we will pair up with him...that matters. Do you uplift your teammates. We can say Bill Russell and the Celtics dominated a weak era but the reason why those Celtics are put in a certain light is because they uplifted each other

From what I can see Lebron-fans don't care about the other players, they only care about how much it helps Lebron's case for GOAT. That in itself lowers Lebron's standing imo....

[zimpy27]

Again, we are talking about being a victim and the difference i was trying to point out was not neccessarily that guys stay with their initial draft team but more that some guys fight through adversity and others take an easy path, and those guys shouldnt be seen as victims. The problem with "the decision" (apart from the extreme cringy setup) is not that he left his team after giving them several years to surround him with better personnel...thats a strawman. The real problem is that he broke an unwritten code. That rule being that in the best interest of sport competition, the top level of players do not team up. I'm not talking about all stars here, i talk about the top 10, maybe 15 players the league has to offer.

After taking his career into his own hands like that, i just cant bring myself to think "LeBron" and "victim" in the same sentence. Just doesnt make sense, theres a houndred guys in this league who would deserve pity more.

love, bosh and kyrie top 10 players but pippen, kareem/magic, mchale, west/baylor, shaq/kobe not lmao

Did you even care to read and try to understand what my point was? I didnt claim there were no teams of two or three great players, i was referring to how they were assembled and when and when not you can take a victim pose. I think yur post is out of line and would better fit the GB, to be honest.

The easy path is to stay with your teammates you've developed rapport with while your GM brings in a great coach and other great players to help you win.

That is the easiest path, the roll out of bed and in to an awesome team path. Everyone would love to take that path but it's not in the control of the player. It's luck of the draw for where and when they are recruited.

[AEnigma]

If you think anything in Lebron’s first seven years in Cleveland suggested a franchise capable of providing the support experienced by every other player you listed, you are — as I suppose we already knew — more interested in justifying a personal vendetta than sincerely attempting to analyse anything on the court. But in case anyone was needlessly willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on that, immediately proceeding to demonise trading poor Andrew Wiggins for Kevin Love en route to a run of four straight Finals should remove any remaining assumption of good faith interest.

If you want, feel free to blame the Timberwolves for definitively proving that having one of the three best players in the league gets you absolutely nowhere as long as your franchise is incapable of offering any real support.

[G35]

If you think anything in Lebron’s first seven years in Cleveland suggested a franchise capable of providing the support experienced by every other player you listed, you are — as I suppose we already knew — more interested in justifying a personal vendetta than sincerely attempting to analyse anything on the court. But in case anyone was needlessly willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on that, immediately proceeding to demonise trading poor Andrew Wiggins for Kevin Love en route to a run of four straight Finals should remove any remaining assumption of good faith interest.

If you want, feel free to blame the Timberwolves for definitively proving that having one of the three best players in the league gets you absolutely nowhere as long as your franchise is incapable of offering any real support.

It took Jordan seven years to win his first title. It took him seven years to get a team to 60+ wins.

David Robinson had five different coaches in his first seven years

Dirk Nowitzki had to deal with Mark Cuban and his antics on the sidelines for years

Kevin Garnett is famously supported for going through 12 years of servitude in Minnesota

John Stockton and Karl Malone went through many many years of not getting what they need to compete at the highest level

Jerry West lost to the Celtics six times in the finals

There's plenty of other great great players - Dominique Wilkins, Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, George Gervin, Reggie Miller - that have been through the same story as Lebron. He is not unique in this aspect.

There are some people who just don't like accountability. It's never their fault. You can always find someone else to blame. The world...the fates are against me...yeah you're the only one that has it hard.....

[PistolPeteJR]

If you think anything in Lebron’s first seven years in Cleveland suggested a franchise capable of providing the support experienced by every other player you listed, you are — as I suppose we already knew — more interested in justifying a personal vendetta than sincerely attempting to analyse anything on the court. But in case anyone was needlessly willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on that, immediately proceeding to demonise trading poor Andrew Wiggins for Kevin Love en route to a run of four straight Finals should remove any remaining assumption of good faith interest.

If you want, feel free to blame the Timberwolves for definitively proving that having one of the three best players in the league gets you absolutely nowhere as long as your franchise is incapable of offering any real support.

It took Jordan seven years to win his first title. It took him seven years to get a team to 60+ wins.

David Robinson had five different coaches in his first seven years

Dirk Nowitzki had to deal with Mark Cuban and his antics on the sidelines for years

Kevin Garnett is famously supported for going through 12 years of servitude in Minnesota

John Stockton and Karl Malone went through many many years of not getting what they need to compete at the highest level

Jerry West lost to the Celtics six times in the finals

There's plenty of other great great players - Dominique Wilkins, Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, George Gervin, Reggie Miller - that have been through the same story as Lebron. He is not unique in this aspect.

There are some people who just don't like accountability. It's never their fault. You can always find someone else to blame. The world...the fates are against me...yeah you're the only one that has it hard.....

“Took Jordan 7 years” - it took LeBron how long again? And why?

“David Robinson had five different coaches in his first seven years” - In his rookie season, despite being the best player on his team, he already had guys like Cummings, Strickland, Maxwell, Elliott. What’s your point?

“Dirk Nowitzki […] - it took him 4 years to be named an All-Star; at that point, he had Steve Nash and he had Michael Finley putting up over 20ppg.

“Kevin Garnett […]” - ah here we go. Now it’s becoming clear: you want stars to just stay put and allow the luck of the draw from a FO standpoint to take effect as it will. Okay, now we get it.

“John Stockton and Karl Malone” - this is the equivalent of saying the Warriors never should have gone out and gotten KD after ‘16 because a healthy LeBron and Kyrie was the bane of their existence the same way Jordan, Pip and Rod were the bane of the Jazz’s existence. On top of that, they had an ATG coach in Sloan. What’s the complaint, exactly?

“Jerry West […]” - he came into the league with Elgin freaking Baylor on this team. What do you want? By year 8 Archie Clark took a step forward and was a 20ppg scorer to complement Baylor and West. Year 9 they got Wilt. Give me a break.


The bottom line is this: LeBron was drafted to a team with a bunch of nothing, and in 7 years of competing, the FO did just about nothing. Everything is well documented, so if there’s some false documenting going on, please share and wake the world up to its nonsense. After 7 years, he decided to take matters into his own hands. Fortunately for many other ATGs, they didn’t have to do that. For others that weren’t so fortunate, similar to LeBron (eg. KG), if your argument is, “suck it up”, you’d best be saying it to ALL of them. And if you are, I’d encourage you to question what the real root of the problem is for you here.

[AEnigma]

If you think anything in Lebron’s first seven years in Cleveland suggested a franchise capable of providing the support experienced by every other player you listed, you are — as I suppose we already knew — more interested in justifying a personal vendetta than sincerely attempting to analyse anything on the court. But in case anyone was needlessly willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on that, immediately proceeding to demonise trading poor Andrew Wiggins for Kevin Love en route to a run of four straight Finals should remove any remaining assumption of good faith interest.

If you want, feel free to blame the Timberwolves for definitively proving that having one of the three best players in the league gets you absolutely nowhere as long as your franchise is incapable of offering any real support.

It took Jordan seven years to win his first title. It took him seven years to get a team to 60+ wins.

Yep, and he had Pippen and Grant to show for it. I like how you dodged the question of what Lebron had.

David Robinson had five different coaches in his first seven years

… and then he missed the entirety of year eight with injury, and the team drafted Tim Duncan. Which seems to have been Lebron’s biggest mistake in all of this.

Dirk Nowitzki had to deal with Mark Cuban and his antics on the sidelines for years

Kevin Garnett is famously supported for going through 12 years of servitude in Minnesota

And it was an absolute waste. Props to him for loyalty, sure, but if your suggestion is Lebron should have waited until Cleveland gave up and just shipped him off to the Heat, then your biggest qualm — although again, we already knew this — is players doing anything for themselves.

John Stockton and Karl Malone went through many many years of not getting what they need to compete at the highest level

???? They literally had each other.

Jerry West lost to the Celtics six times in the finals

… next to Elgin Baylor.

There's plenty of other great great players - Dominique Wilkins

He had Doc Rivers (then Mookie Blaylock) and Kevin Willis — and then got traded when the team felt they were done with him.

Charles Barkley

Was drafted to a super team and then traded to a team with a preexisting star, what are you talking about.

Patrick Ewing

The Knicks were at that time a competently run franchise who because of their franchise name were able to recruit the league’s best coach. I do feel bad that he never had a true co-star during his prime, but still, he was working with more than Lebron!

George Gervin

Played next to MVP candidate James Silas in the ABA who had his career derailed by injuries, then saw the team pick up Artis Gilmore in his seventh NBA year.

Reggie Miller

Interesting mention, and agree it would have been nice to have a stronger co-star in his prime, but he had good teammates and one of the most competently run front offices in the league. That said: most fans do not care at all about him, because he never won.

that have been through the same story as Lebron. He is not unique in this aspect.

You apparently do not know any of their stories.

There are some people who just don't like accountability. It's never their fault. You can always find someone else to blame. The world...the fates are against me...yeah you're the only one that has it hard.....

Yeah love the people who say the guy growing up in the single parent household in the worst funded education district in the state basically has it as hard as the people whose parents hired private tutors and guaranteed a strong networking base for all future endeavours… and also that trying to go anywhere else in order to improve their personal circumstances would break some nonexistent “code”.

[LesGrossman]

love, bosh and kyrie top 10 players but pippen, kareem/magic, mchale, west/baylor, shaq/kobe not lmao

Did you even care to read and try to understand what my point was? I didnt claim there were no teams of two or three great players, i was referring to how they were assembled and when and when not you can take a victim pose. I think yur post is out of line and would better fit the GB, to be honest.

The easy path is to stay with your teammates you've developed rapport with while your GM brings in a great coach and other great players to help you win.

That is the easiest path, the roll out of bed and in to an awesome team path. Everyone would love to take that path but it's not in the control of the player. It's luck of the draw for where and when they are recruited.

Totally agree. My point that i keep repeating is that there are actually three, not two paths. Its not just either you stick with your team and suffer for your entire career or you move out and team up with a bunch of alpha superstars. You can decide to say thank you but its time to move on, and go somewhere with more potential. Just imagine, a generational talent like LeBron going to the knicks, and bringing them from s*it to a title, developing and teaching the guys throughout a few years. That is the biggest glaring hole in his legacy imho - he has not Pippen that he helped to develop. He opted to join fully developed superstars and its technically legal, but just doesnt fit the "victim" narrative we discussed.

[LesGrossman]

Ah yes, the very real “code” permitting Magic and Kareem, Shaq and Kobe, Jordan and Pippen, Durant and Westbrook, Steph and Draymond and Klay, West and Baylor, etc. to all be on the same team and stay on that team and thrive together… and of course permits trades like Moses to Philadelphia and Garnett to Boston… but condemns any who take it upon themselves to search out those partners in free agency. Love that code.

The ironic part is you accusing me of an "agenda". We get it, you do not disagree with a league consisting of a handful of super teams where players / frontrunners / ring chasers cowardly bunch up to blow out the rest of the league. I've seen enough of that bunch of "fans" on TV who seem to draw some sort of pleasure out of the 20th blowout in a row. I like to watch a sports competition, and i prefer some sort of fair distribution of talent across the league. The draft, trade and cap system is intended to provide that, evne though it is so complex and flawed that it has to be constantly adjusted. It does, however, not account for players doing what they did since "the decision". Others upped LeBron and KD by even openly violating running contracts and "demanding" to be traded, and not only that but demanded to be traded to exactly that place where all their superstar friends were waiting.

But i get it. You see no problem with that. Agree to disagree.

[AEnigma]

It is not “brave” to stick around in an excellent situation with superstars that your front office happened to draft next to you. The league has literally never been fairly distributed; you just prefer the players have zero say in that distribution.

[prolific passer]

Who would have been the ideal #2 guy that the Cavs could have drafted in Lebron's first 7 years?

[eminence]

Who would have been the ideal #2 guy that the Cavs could have drafted in Lebron's first 7 years?

Allstars drafted after where CLE picked (or reasonably could've, late 1sts/2nds they could've traded into) while LeBron was in CLE.

Josh Howard
Mo Williams (hey, we know him)
Kyle Korver
David Lee
Kyle Lowry
Paul Millsap
Marc Gasol
DeAndre Jordan
Goran Dragic

If forced to pick one I'd go with Lowry slightly over Gasol.

So basically a bunch of later picks everyone missed on. A few were not particularly worthy #2 guys. Very very hard to build significantly through the draft for a team drafting LeBron. Obviously it would've been nice if they could've hit on one, but it's a lot of luck there.

Cleveland basically had to get their #2 through FA or trade.

[zimpy27]

Did you even care to read and try to understand what my point was? I didnt claim there were no teams of two or three great players, i was referring to how they were assembled and when and when not you can take a victim pose. I think yur post is out of line and would better fit the GB, to be honest.

The easy path is to stay with your teammates you've developed rapport with while your GM brings in a great coach and other great players to help you win.

That is the easiest path, the roll out of bed and in to an awesome team path. Everyone would love to take that path but it's not in the control of the player. It's luck of the draw for where and when they are recruited.

Totally agree. My point that i keep repeating is that there are actually three, not two paths. Its not just either you stick with your team and suffer for your entire career or you move out and team up with a bunch of alpha superstars. You can decide to say thank you but its time to move on, and go somewhere with more potential. Just imagine, a generational talent like LeBron going to the knicks, and bringing them from s*it to a title, developing and teaching the guys throughout a few years. That is the biggest glaring hole in his legacy imho - he has not Pippen that he helped to develop. He opted to join fully developed superstars and its technically legal, but just doesnt fit the "victim" narrative we discussed.

Right yeah he opted for the Miami path and Melo opted for the save the Knicks path.

LeBron going to Knicks would have been worse than staying on the Cavs because at least he had consistency or rapport with the Cavs. Going to the Heat in FA meant that they had a big 3 team bereft of role players and depth. That had it's own issues, it was a step up from the Cavs but not a leap up.

I think we've seen many examples now of superstars joining superstars on a team with minimal depth and I think only LeBron has pulled out a ring from it.

[LesGrossman]

The easy path is to stay with your teammates you've developed rapport with while your GM brings in a great coach and other great players to help you win.

That is the easiest path, the roll out of bed and in to an awesome team path. Everyone would love to take that path but it's not in the control of the player. It's luck of the draw for where and when they are recruited.

Totally agree. My point that i keep repeating is that there are actually three, not two paths. Its not just either you stick with your team and suffer for your entire career or you move out and team up with a bunch of alpha superstars. You can decide to say thank you but its time to move on, and go somewhere with more potential. Just imagine, a generational talent like LeBron going to the knicks, and bringing them from s*it to a title, developing and teaching the guys throughout a few years. That is the biggest glaring hole in his legacy imho - he has not Pippen that he helped to develop. He opted to join fully developed superstars and its technically legal, but just doesnt fit the "victim" narrative we discussed.

Right yeah he opted for the Miami path and Melo opted for the save the Knicks path.

LeBron going to Knicks would have been worse than staying on the Cavs because at least he had consistency or rapport with the Cavs. Going to the Heat in FA meant that they had a big 3 team bereft of role players and depth. That had it's own issues, it was a step up from the Cavs but not a leap up.

I think we've seen many examples now of superstars joining superstars on a team with minimal depth and I think only LeBron has pulled out a ring from it.

NY was just an example, there are always several up and coming teams worth investing imho, but Knicks would be an epic achievement and LeBron is capable of things Melo isnt.

Its also true that we've seen the pattern repeated once the floodgates were opened by "the decision". I dont agree it didnt work out for anyone, KD got two rings out of his Warriors move.The only comparable scenario i can think of is the Nets cluster (even though Kyrie isnt a superstar on that level any more), AD to LA and PG13 + Kawhi to LA. There simply isnt anyone else on that talent level who did such a move (or i cant think of it).

[tone wone]

Did you even care to read and try to understand what my point was? I didnt claim there were no teams of two or three great players, i was referring to how they were assembled and when and when not you can take a victim pose. I think yur post is out of line and would better fit the GB, to be honest.

The easy path is to stay with your teammates you've developed rapport with while your GM brings in a great coach and other great players to help you win.

That is the easiest path, the roll out of bed and in to an awesome team path. Everyone would love to take that path but it's not in the control of the player. It's luck of the draw for where and when they are recruited.

Totally agree. My point that i keep repeating is that there are actually three, not two paths. Its not just either you stick with your team and suffer for your entire career or you move out and team up with a bunch of alpha superstars. You can decide to say thank you but its time to move on, and go somewhere with more potential. Just imagine, a generational talent like LeBron going to the knicks, and bringing them from s*it to a title, developing and teaching the guys throughout a few years. That is the biggest glaring hole in his legacy imho - he has not Pippen that he helped to develop. He opted to join fully developed superstars and its technically legal, but just doesnt fit the "victim" narrative we discussed.

"So superstar in your mid-20s; why did you decide to leave? Was it the organization? Were you looking for a better chance to win championships? Did your family prefer a warm weather city? A bigger market? What was it?"

"Honestly, my old team just didnt have enough guys for me to teach and develop. As a generational talent, I yearn for the opportunity to bring a brand new team from **** to a title. Most guys in my position would never admit it, but were always looking for a group of 21 year old lottery picks to piggy back off of. Hoping to take credit for ALL their growth."

[HeartBreakKid]

lol at this idea that michael jordan created scottie pippen. jesus christ.

yeah, jordan went to a young team too - called the wizards, and they hated him. he did the polar opposite of develop the young talent there.



Ignoring that Lebron also already went to lotto teams in free agency. Just because they became great after he went there doesn't mean he did not pull those franchises up.

[AEnigma]

Who would have been the ideal #2 guy that the Cavs could have drafted in Lebron's first 7 years?

Allstars drafted after where CLE picked (or reasonably could've, late 1sts/2nds they could've traded into) while LeBron was in CLE.

Josh Howard
Mo Williams (hey, we know him)
Kyle Korver
David Lee
Kyle Lowry
Paul Millsap
Marc Gasol
DeAndre Jordan
Goran Dragic

If forced to pick one I'd go with Lowry slightly over Gasol.

So basically a bunch of later picks everyone missed on. A few were not particularly worthy #2 guys. Very very hard to build significantly through the draft for a team drafting LeBron. Obviously it would've been nice if they could've hit on one, but it's a lot of luck there.

Cleveland basically had to get their #2 through FA or trade.

Who would have been the ideal #2 guy that the Cavs could have drafted in Lebron's first 7 years?

For various reasons, I am not sure there was much of one.

So first, just as a frame of reference, we can look at the Bulls. In 1985, they trade the 11th pick to the Cavaliers for 9th pick Charles Oakley, although theoretically they could have grabbed Karl Malone there. In 1986, they take Brad Sellers with the 10th pick. Some decent alternatives, and they miss out on the opportunity to take Ron Harper by one spot, but no real co-stars available… unless you look fifteen spots down at Mark Price and Dennis Rodman. They also receive a 1989 first when Orlando Woolridge goes to the Nets.

Anyway, we arrive at 1987. The Bulls finesse a first round pick out of the Knicks for Jawann Oldham (…), which becomes the 8th pick. They themselves earn the 10th pick, which they use on Horace Grant. That 8th pick is packaged with a 1989 first round swap (????) to move up to the 5th pick, where they pick up Scottie Pippen. Alternatives available were Kevin Johnson (taken 7th), Derrick McKey (taken 9th), and Reggie Miller (taken 11th). Reggie Lewis was taken later on, and decent starters Kenny Smith, Muggsy Bogues, and Mark Jackson were also all available. Extremely strong draft, tough to go wrong — although I imagine the Jordan stans would argue Lebron would have ruined every one of them like he ruined Boobie Gibson and J.J. Hickson.

In 1988, they trade Oakley and the 19th pick for Bill Cartwright and the 11th pick, which they use to select Will Perdue. In 1989, remember Brad Sellers? Remember that pick swap for Pippen? Well, they trade Sellers to get that pick back, so now they have the 6th pick (via Woolridge), the 18th pick, and the 20th pick. They take Stacey King, B.J. Armstrong, and Jeff Sellers, respectively, which is certainly not great but is overall respectable and complete the core group of their first threepeat. The top of the draft was quite weak, and although guys like Mookie, Tim Hardaway, and Kemp were all available instead of King, and Cliff Robinson and Divac were available later in the draft, Armstrong at least is a decent player. Oh, also, they trade Dave Corzine for a 1990 and 1992 second-round pick from the Orlando Magic, which is not that notable… until you learn that both end up becoming the second pick in the second round, because the Magic are dreadful until they draft Shaq, and that 1990 second-round pick becomes Toni Kukoc, which I would say makes up for the mildly ineffective 1989 draft.

Now, keeping that all in mind, we can turn to your actual question. In 2004, the Cavaliers have the 10th pick and take Luke Jackson. Andre Iguodala was taken immediately before, and Luol Deng a couple of spots before that, although I do not know of any guarantees that the Cavaliers front office would have taken either if they were there. They could have done better with their pick — Josh Smith, Jameer Nelson, J.R. Smith, and Kevin Martin were all options — but certainly no path to a Pippen/KJ/Miller tier co-star, and I would struggle to put any of them at the level of Grant or McKey or Lewis either. I will also note that they trade Toronto’s 2007 first round pick (obtained in the 2003 season) for 19th pick of the 2003 draft Sasha Pavlovic. Maybe they could have traded that future first for a pick in this draft, or to move up to grab Deng or Iguodala, or even for a better player from the 2003 draft (Josh Howard, Boris Diaw, David West), but again, that is a lot of hindsight analysis just to find someone who should be a tertiary teammate.

In 2005, the Cavaliers did not have a first round pick because of a pre-Lebron trade. That 13th pick could have been used to draft Danny Granger in the best case scenario, but the draft overall was quite bad past the top four. They also trade their own 2007 first for Jiri Welsch… who four months later they would trade for a second round pick and who would be out of the league a year later.

In 2006, the Cavaliers have the 25th pick, because unlike the 1987 40-win Bulls, they foolishly win 50 games. Not too much talent in this draft… but Kyle Lowry going with the 24th pick stings a little, even if in reality he took many years to develop, and of course I do not know of any guarantee they take him anyway. If the Cavaliers had draft standing like the 1987 Bulls, perhaps they could have made a move for Brandon Roy (taken 6th). Roy progressed even faster than Pippen and was an all-star in his second year and an all-NBA player in his third year (in contrast to Pippen being an all-star in his third year and all-NBA in his fourth year. Still, what good is that if your career is immediately derailed by injuries. So overall, no real path to a long-term Pippen-tier partner, and only a few hindsight opportunities for a Grant-tier supporting piece.

In 2007, remember that the Cavaliers traded away their own pick as well as Toronto’s, basically for junk. However, those picks ended up being 22nd and 24th, and I would not say they missed out on much. Tough to even package those for a lottery pick, and the lottery itself was weak outside the top four.

In 2008, they have the 19th pick and take J.J. Hickson. Serge Ibaka, Nic Batum, and George Hill were all taken later. After that, Lebron is dragging the Cavaliers to the top record in the league, which means not much remains in the way of draft capital. In 2009 they take Christian Eyenga with the 30th pick). They also pick up Danny Green in the second round, which sounds smart, but they end up waiving him a year later, so tough to give them any real credit there. In 2010, they send out their first round pick (again 30th overall) as part of the Antawn Jamison trade, and then Lebron leaves.

In a best case scenario, the Cavaliers traded up for Andre Iguodala in 2005 and now have some hypothetical future core of Andre Iguodala, Serge Ibaka, and Anderson Varejao. Hey, maybe that is enough to make Lebron stick around after 2010, or maybe simply having Iguodala pushes them over the edge in 2009, but either way tough to call that equivalent to the surrounding cast of the 1991 Bulls — and that is without getting into all the free agencies failings and shortcomings partially covered here:
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/811542-what-went-wrong-the-lebron-james-era-in-cleveland.amp.html

Anyone whining about Lebron not sticking around is patently asking him to act as the NBA’s Sisyphus, and anyone posturing that other stars had it “just as hard” as he did in Cleveland has no interest in honest comparison.

[prolific passer]

Who would have been the ideal #2 guy that the Cavs could have drafted in Lebron's first 7 years?

Allstars drafted after where CLE picked (or reasonably could've, late 1sts/2nds they could've traded into) while LeBron was in CLE.

Josh Howard
Mo Williams (hey, we know him)
Kyle Korver
David Lee
Kyle Lowry
Paul Millsap
Marc Gasol
DeAndre Jordan
Goran Dragic

If forced to pick one I'd go with Lowry slightly over Gasol.

So basically a bunch of later picks everyone missed on. A few were not particularly worthy #2 guys. Very very hard to build significantly through the draft for a team drafting LeBron. Obviously it would've been nice if they could've hit on one, but it's a lot of luck there.

Cleveland basically had to get their #2 through FA or trade.

Who would have been the ideal #2 guy that the Cavs could have drafted in Lebron's first 7 years?

For various reasons, I am not sure there was much of one.

So first, just as a frame of reference, we can look at the Bulls. In 1985, they trade the 11th pick to the Cavaliers for 9th pick Charles Oakley, although theoretically they could have grabbed Karl Malone there. In 1986, they take Brad Sellers with the 10th pick. Some decent alternatives, and they miss out on the opportunity to take Ron Harper by one spot, but no real co-stars available… unless you look fifteen spots down at Mark Price and Dennis Rodman. They also receive a 1989 first when Orlando Woolridge goes to the Nets. Anyway, now we arrive at 1987. The Bulls finesse a first round pick out of the Knicks for Jawann Oldham (…), which becomes the 8th pick. They themselves earn the 10th pick, which they use on Horace Grant. That 8th pick is packaged with a 1989 first round swap (????) to move up to the 5th pick, where they pick up Scottie Pippen. Alternatives available were Kevin Johnson (taken 7th), Derrick McKey (taken 9th), and Reggie Miller (taken 11th). Reggie Lewis was taken later on, and decent starters Kenny Smith, Muggsy Bogues, and Mark Jackson were also all available. Extremely strong draft, tough to go wrong — although I imagine the Jordan stans would argue Lebron would have ruined every one of them like he ruined Boobie Gibson and J.J. Hickson.

in 1988, they trade Oakley and the 19th pick for Bill Cartwright and the 11th pick, which they use to select Will Perdue. In 1989, remember Brad Sellers? Remember that pick swap for Pippen? Well, they trade Sellers to get that pick back, so now they have the 6th pick (via Woolridge), the 18th pick, and the 20th pick. They take Stacey King, B.J. Armstrong, and Jeff Sellers, respectively, which is certainly not great but is overall respectable and complete the core group of their first threepeat. The top of the draft was quite weak, and although guys like Mookie, Tim Hardaway, and Kemp were all available instead of King, and Cliff Robinson and Divac were available later in the draft, Armstrong at least is a decent player. Oh, also, they trade Dave Corzine for a 1990 and 1992 second-round pick from the Orlando Magic, which is not that notable… until you learn that both end up becoming the second pick in the second round, because the Magic are dreadful until they draft Shaq, and that 1990 second-round pick becomes Toni Kukoc, which I would say makes up for the mildly ineffective 1989 draft.

Now, keeping that all in mind, we can turn to your actual question. In 2004, the Cavaliers have the 10th pick and take Luke Jackson. Andre Iguodala was taken immediately before, and Luol Deng a couple of spots before that, although I do not know of any guarantees that the Cavaliers front office would have taken either if they were there. They could have done better with their pick — Josh Smith, Jameer Nelson, J.R. Smith, and Kevin Martin were all options — but certainly no path to a Pippen/KJ/Miller tier co-star, and I would struggle to put any of them at the level of Grant or McKey or Lewis either. I will also note that they trade Toronto’s 2007 first round pick (obtained in the 2003 season) for 19th pick of the 2003 draft Sasha Pavlovic. Maybe they could have traded that future first for a pick in this draft, or to move up to grab Deng or Iguodala, or even for a better player from the 2003 draft (Josh Howard, Boris Diaw, David West), but again, that is a lot of hindsight analysis just to find someone who should be a tertiary teammate.

In 2005, the Cavaliers did not have a first round pick because of a pre-Lebron trade. That 13th pick could have been used to draft Danny Granger in the best case scenario, but the draft overall was quite bad past the top four. They also trade their own 2007 first for Jiri Welsch… who four months later they would trade for a second round pick and who would be out of the league a year later.

In 2006, the Cavaliers have the 25th pick, because unlike the 1987 40-win Bulls, they foolishly win 50 games. Not too much talent in this draft… but Kyle Lowry going with the 24th pick stings a little, even if in reality he took many years to develop, and of course I do not know of any guarantee they take him anyway. If the Cavaliers had draft standing like the 1987 Bulls, perhaps they could have made a move for Brandon Roy (taken 6th). Roy progressed even faster than Pippen and was an all-star in his second year and an all-NBA player in his third year (in contrast to Pippen being an all-star in his third year and all-NBA in his fourth year. Still, what good is that if your career is immediately derailed by injuries. So overall, no real path to a long-term Pippen-tier partner, and only a few hindsight opportunities for a Grant-tier supporting piece.

In 2007, remember that the Cavaliers traded away their own pick as well as Toronto’s, basically for junk. However, those picks ended up being 22nd and 24th, and I would not say they missed out on much. Tough to even package those for a lottery pick, and the lottery itself was weak outside the top four.

In 2008, they have the 19th pick and take J.J. Hickson. Serge Ibaka, Nic Batum, and George Hill were all taken later. After that, Lebron is dragging the Cavaliers to the top record in the league, which mean not much remains in the way of draft capital. In 2009 they take Christian Eyenga with the 30th pick). They also pick up Danny Green in the second round, which sounds smart, but they end up waiving him a year later, so tough to give them any real credit there. In 2010, they send out their first round pick (again 30th overall) as part of the Antawn Jamison trade, and then Lebron leaves.

In a best case scenario, the Cavaliers traded up for Andre Iguodala in 2005 and now have some hypothetical future core of Andre Iguodala, Serge Ibaka, and Anderson Varejao. Hey, maybe that is enough to make Lebron stick around after 2010, or maybe simply having Iguodala pushes them over the edge in 2009, but either way that tough to call equivalent to the 1991 Bulls — and that is without getting into all the free agencies failings and shortcomings partially covered here:
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/811542-what-went-wrong-the-lebron-james-era-in-cleveland.amp.html

Anyone whining about Lebron not sticking around is patently asking him to act as the NBA’s Sisyphus, and anyone posturing that other stars had it “just as hard” as he did in Cleveland has no interest in honest comparison.

Batum is really the only one that sticks out for who they could have gotten who would have been the best #2 for Lebron.

Krause was just awful at drafting really after 87.