Retro Player of the Year Project

[JordansBulls]

What is interesting to me is that Ewing highest ranking was top 4 in any year in this project.

[Gongxi]

I think the interesting thing here is that Malone has more POY shares than Hakeem when Hakeem was clearly the better player.

Probably because a peak Hakeem was better than a peak Malone, but Malone had a much more sustained and consistent prime.

[shawngoat23]

Coolest thing about that picture is the way his wristband blends in with the square on the backboard. He gets style points from me for that.

[ronnymac2]

Are those Adidas Shell sneakers? They're obviously dominant kicks, but not the best for basketball or jumping 25 feet in the air like Artis is doing. That makes it even more impressive.

[Manuel Calavera]

Is there anyway to tell if he's even at his apex yet?

[ronnymac2]

According to an announcer broadcasting MIL vs. BOS in 83, the late, great John Wooden said that Larry Bird was possibly the best player in the game at the time. Interesting.

Games 3 and 4 are on youtube. Bird completely missed game 2 with the flu and wasn't quite himself in game 3, though he put up something like 20/10/6/6. He played well in game 4. He's almost guaranteed a top 2 spot from me. I actually think he might be the best player this year, but Moses wins just about every tie-breaker, is close as a player, and Bird missed a crucial playoff game. Moses will likely be first.

The Bucks completely destroyed Boston in game 4. Their athleticism is off the charts, and they're a very well put together team. They were blocking everything inside and dominated the offensive glass against Bird, Maxwell, Parish, and younger Mchale. Moncrief, Marques Johnson, Catchings, Lister, and Bridgeman are just all over the place with quick leaping ability and cutting off the ball. Doug Collins mentions that Bob Lanier is the heart of the team and protects everyone. He head-locked Mchale once. Strong as an ox. I'd have liked to see Lanier face Shaq.

Sidney Moncrief has his best shot at making my top five this year. This is possibly his best year in the regular season in terms of scoring, field goal %, and PER. He won DPOY. He was all-nba first team, fourth in MVP voting, and top 10 in PER. He scores well in other advanced stats, too. When you look and see a swingman that can board like a SF and play pg and gives you 22/6/4/1.5/52%/8fta/all-time elite defense while clearly doing what is best for the team on a squad loaded with individual talent, you notice it. He dominated in games 3 and 4 vs. Boston. He dropped 25 on Boston despite Boston actually triple-teaming him at points game 4.

Marques Johnson is great, too. Scored 33 in game 4. It is clear that the way to play Squid is to give him the jump-shot. He's a fantastic slasher and and powerful post player though. Great off the ball and hammers the offensive glass.

I'm actually impressed by what Philly did. They actually beat this team 4-1. Even for a GOAT team, MIL would have been a touch matchup for anybody. I'm going to guess Moncrief's struggles shooting the ball (44% for entire playoffs) were against Philly. I'm not penalazing him too hard when he faces a GOAT team with Moses, Erving, and Jones all serving as elite co-anchors and Cheeks being a great defender himself.

Moses, Erving, Magic, KAJ, Isiah, Moncrief, and English are the big contenders. Most likely dropping English off though, despite the scoring title. Dantley missed 60 games and King didn't impress more than Isiah/Erving/Jabbar/Squid.

[sp6r=underrated]

Obviously he is not worthy of consideration for this project, but could someone give me a breakdown of Johnny Moore who watched that Spurs-Lakers series. He had a good career, but glancing at the numbers it looks like he just went off that year in the PS.

[andykeikei]

Where can I find those bucks playoff games in 1983? I would like to see how dominant they were against the sixers and celtics.

[ronnymac2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpZwUJOMCto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJaxCsvK554

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q1b7CEtFg8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qA9hbkepBk


sp- Bill Russell mentioned that Moore had 17 assists combined in games 4 and 5 and that he was directing the offense as effectively Magic, just less spectacularly. He seemed impressed by Moore. TrueLA already talked about him a little bit before. He'd probably be the person to ask for greater details about that playoff run.

[Silver Bullet]

That picture is taken from the cameraman sitting on the floor - The angle makes his jump look much higher than it actually is - in all likelihood, his hand is not more than a couple of inches higher than the rim.

[Doctor MJ]

That picture is taken from the cameraman sitting on the floor - The angle makes his jump look much higher than it actually is - in all likelihood, his hand is not more than a couple of inches higher than the rim.

It is true that the angle makes him look higher than he is, but the distance from the camera man to Artis is WAY greater than the distance from Artis to the backboard. Applying some math:

-Camera man is on distant sideline, sitting on the ground:

Horizontal distance - 90 feet,
Camera height - 3 feet
Stripe height - 10 feet + .45 meters = 11.477 feet

Assume that Artis is no more than 5 feet from the basket - 85 feet

Ratio of height relative to camera between the wristband and the stripe = Ratio of distance between Artis and the backboard:

(x-3 feet)/(stripe_height-3 feet) = 85/90
x=11.006

Distance between wristband and top of middle finger? Measured my hand, it's about 9 inches, I'll use that.

So assuming that Artis is no more 5 feet away from the backboard, and his hands are not bigger than mind, the tip of his finger is at 11 feet, 9 inches. If he's closer to the rim and his hands are bigger than me, that number goes up.

Considering that we know that Howard can get up well above 12 feet, this doesn't seem a crazy estimate. Though I'll grant, Howard in the slam dunk contest got to about 12 feet 3-4 inches at full speed off one leg, and this appears to be Gilmore jumping straight up off two legs, which can be a difference of 3-6 inches, so taking my math literally seems to imply that Gilmore got up about as high as Howard can.

[ThaRegul8r]

Is it too late to get in this?

[sp6r=underrated]

Ask Doc

I hope he'll let you in. We need more people with first hand knowledge of the years we're now reviewing.

[Sedale Threatt]

Yeah, it's getting a little slim. All I've got to go on is what I've read, and am reading, and the odd games I've caught on Classic over the years. I kind of feel like I'm throwing darts at the wall. It's a little disappointing to me, though, that some of our earlier voters seem to have dropped off now that we're past the eras of their favorite players. Pretty weak.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Yeah, it's getting a little slim. All I've got to go on is what I've read, and am reading, and the odd games I've caught on Classic over the years. I kind of feel like I'm throwing darts at the wall. It's a little disappointing to me, though, that some of our earlier voters seem to have dropped off now that we're past the eras of their favorite players. Pretty weak.

That's why I didn't actually join this, I knew I'd be bad at the older eras. I've only been watching the NBA since 96, and only have good knowledge of the NBA back to around the mid 80's... I'd have been lost in the years prior.

Its fun to read through though, and help fill in the gaps that I was less aware of.

[Baller 24]

Yeah, it's getting a little slim. All I've got to go on is what I've read, and am reading, and the odd games I've caught on Classic over the years. I kind of feel like I'm throwing darts at the wall. It's a little disappointing to me, though, that some of our earlier voters seem to have dropped off now that we're past the eras of their favorite players. Pretty weak.

I'll try and come around more often, I've by no means witnessed the era live, but I've watched/downloaded full games, and read multiple articles of some of the solid teams in the different eras. It's just that these damn project management classes are starting to become a bitch!

[TrueLAfan]

Yeah, it's getting a little slim. All I've got to go on is what I've read, and am reading, and the odd games I've caught on Classic over the years. I kind of feel like I'm throwing darts at the wall. It's a little disappointing to me, though, that some of our earlier voters seem to have dropped off now that we're past the eras of their favorite players. Pretty weak.

That's why I didn't actually join this, I knew I'd be bad at the older eras. I've only been watching the NBA since 96, and only have good knowledge of the NBA back to around the mid 80's... I'd have been lost in the years prior.

Its fun to read through though, and help fill in the gaps that I was less aware of.

You should participate anyway. I've been in on this from the start, but posted less at the beginning because, frankly, it was goofy to me that people were talking about the period they've "seen" and "know about" ... and were reducing it almost totally to statistical analysis (some of it pretty poor).

Nobody can definitely state what is "correct" or "right, or what player is "best" or "most valuable." It's ALL conjecture and opinion. Even if you don't have first hand knowledge, there's plenty of material available for you and others to make informed guesses and ask about things. And, when you get down to it, "informed guesses" is what this is all about.

[Dr Positivity]

Yeah the best part of this project so far to me was around 85 to 02 or so, or basically encompassing the Jordan/Barkley/Karl Malone/etc. generation up until the last year before Adjusted +/- is tracked.

70-84 is probably the shadowyist era in terms of what we normally talk about, but maybe it'll end up the most informative as well. I think people will come out of the woodworks for Russell, Wilt, West, Oscar once we get to the 60s though

[ThaRegul8r]

Yeah the best part of this project so far to me was around 85 to 02 or so, or basically encompassing the Jordan/Barkley/Karl Malone/etc. generation up until the last year before Adjusted +/- is tracked.

70-84 is probably the shadowyist era in terms of what we normally talk about, but maybe it'll end up the most informative as well. I think people will come out of the woodworks for Russell, Wilt, West, Oscar once we get to the 60s though

70s will be interesting, as there are a couple of years I had issue with. And discussion about something that isn't usually talked about is good. I think it'll be good to hash it out.

I have a lot to say about the '60s. For years I feel particularly strong about, I will have evidence to back up my opinion, as I imagine at least one will go against the grain.

[ThaRegul8r]

double post