The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 2)

[therealbig3]

BTW, goes to show how important Green is. Not taking anything away from LeBron and Irving, they were outstanding, and likely would have had great games regardless, but I don't think it's a coincidence that GS plays one of their worst defensive games when Green doesn't play, and that their small ball lineup all of a sudden gets destroyed down the stretch. It's because Green allows that small ball lineup to work.

[JordansBulls]

I wish Curry could be more aggressive but truth is there was nothing Curry could have done to win this game, he might have shot the ball better and got more points but with Bogut down, we have Barnes at center...lebron had a layup feast.
Irving was amazing tonight and our single coverage has not worked. Series is back to a close one again.

It was tied up at the half. That is what I thought he was waiting for for a great 2nd half performance.

[cpower]

I wish Curry could be more aggressive but truth is there was nothing Curry could have done to win this game, he might have shot the ball better and got more points but with Bogut down, we have Barnes at center...lebron had a layup feast.
Irving was amazing tonight and our single coverage has not worked. Series is back to a close one again.

It was tied up at the half. That is what I thought he was waiting for for a great 2nd half performance.

Unless every time he pull up from 30 feet and scored, there was not much he would have done. TT and Lebron was in the lane waiting for him and we had nobody to stop them from scoring down low. HB at center...there is very little room for mistake playing like that.
Curry was cold from long range tonight so that was it.

[PaulieWal]

Not to overreact and I have felt this way since his injury anyway he's definitely out of the GOAT peak talks. Even when he's played he's been way too up and down game to game.

[JordansBulls]

I would actually start Livingston and bring Curry off the bench next game. If he can't light up the bench guys on Cleveland than something is really wrong.

[therealbig3]

I would actually start Livingston and bring Curry off the bench next game. If he can't light up the bench guys on Cleveland than something is really wrong.

You went full JB.

Never go full JB.

[Colbinii]

I would actually start Livingston and bring Curry off the bench next game. If he can't light up the bench guys on Cleveland than something is really wrong.

I was actually thinking they should start Ian Clark, mix it up a bit.

[MisterHibachi]

They probably close out next game, but would be really disappointing if Curry got the FMVP. He doesn't deserve it one bit.

Without Green, all his weaknesses were in focus, particularly the lack of on-ball playmaking.

[G35]

They probably close out next game, but would be really disappointing if Curry got the FMVP. He doesn't deserve it one bit.

Without Green, all his weaknesses were in focus, particularly the lack of on-ball playmaking.

The Warriors are better than the sum of their parts as a team. Yes, Curry is not as good without Draymond, and likely the Warriors would struggle without Klay in a playoff situation. But Curry does make the game a lot easier for Dray, Klay, and the rest of the team.

I'll say the one thing that I don't like to see from Steph is he always looks so lax. He runs back on defense lax, gets really lazy with the ball, he doesn't turn up in the playoffs. I think that is what is essential from Draymond is he brings fire/energy and amps up Steph, otherwise it does not seem as if Steph can increase his level on his own.

I do agree with you that, Steph does not seem to be a real natural playmaker but it has not been a problem in the Warriors offense and with Dray helping to manage. Perhaps on another team Steph would get similar criticism like Kyrie gets for not being a master play maker. For me the biggest thing is Steph getting that competitive focus which I think he depends on Dray to bring to the table.

It is a little disappointing I think for everyone that Steph has had very few dominant games during this playoff run, particularly when the Warriors have needed him the most.....

[Doctor MJ]

BTW, goes to show how important Green is. Not taking anything away from LeBron and Irving, they were outstanding, and likely would have had great games regardless, but I don't think it's a coincidence that GS plays one of their worst defensive games when Green doesn't play, and that their small ball lineup all of a sudden gets destroyed down the stretch. It's because Green allows that small ball lineup to work.

Eh, here's what I'd say:

All the scoring stars came out tonight with clarity of role: Attack!

Kyrie had already been there.
LeBron got there knowing Green was out and his back was against the wall.
Curry & Klay knowing that the only way to win was likely if at least one of them went nuclear.

And then? Some guys caught fire more than others (and granted, Curry was the least of the bunch by a good margin), and that decided the game.

I don't think there's any doubt that the loss of a star defender embolden's the opponent, but I saw the shots Kyrie & LeBron were hitting. I don't care who is guarding them, the two of them just don't normally hit like that. And that's just how the game of basketball works.

I always think about Game 7 of the '70 finals. The most interesting part of the game was watching Wilt struggle against great defense...but no matter what he did New York was going to win because their shots just went in well beyond what they typically did.

Put another way: If THAT is what it takes for Cleveland to win a game where GS doesn't have Draymond, that actually says pretty amazing things to me about GS.

[MyUniBroDavis]

He missed good looks, and the warriors system and most of their offensive sets have the ball off of his hands.

The tean webt 3/21 from 3 in the second at one point, and they missed at least 5-6 wide open looks.

Also draymond leaving made iggy play the 5. Offense operated normally. They missed good looks though obviously it wasnt the same but it was alrigbt. Defensively obviously he couldnt vuard lebron, and he took advantage of that

I dont undstand people saying thjs proves anything though. He mames w of his 3 missed open threes and makes his initial layup on the offensive rebound earlier and hits that layup that only lebron could block then we bave a typical curry game

[GSP]

Depending on how u view Draymond missing this game, i think Steph has only been the 5th best player at best in these finals after Kyries performance now in this one. Lebron, Iggy, Kyrie and Draymond have all been better to me.

[PaulieWal]

BTW, goes to show how important Green is. Not taking anything away from LeBron and Irving, they were outstanding, and likely would have had great games regardless, but I don't think it's a coincidence that GS plays one of their worst defensive games when Green doesn't play, and that their small ball lineup all of a sudden gets destroyed down the stretch. It's because Green allows that small ball lineup to work.

Eh, here's what I'd say:

All the scoring stars came out tonight with clarity of role: Attack!

Kyrie had already been there.
LeBron got there knowing Green was out and his back was against the wall.
Curry & Klay knowing that the only way to win was likely if at least one of them went nuclear.

And then? Some guys caught fire more than others (and granted, Curry was the least of the bunch by a good margin), and that decided the game.

I don't think there's any doubt that the loss of a star defender embolden's the opponent, but I saw the shots Kyrie & LeBron were hitting. I don't care who is guarding them, the two of them just don't normally hit like that. And that's just how the game of basketball works.

I always think about Game 7 of the '70 finals. The most interesting part of the game was watching Wilt struggle against great defense...but no matter what he did New York was going to win because their shots just went in well beyond what they typically did.

Put another way: If THAT is what it takes for Cleveland to win a game where GS doesn't have Draymond, that actually says pretty amazing things to me about GS.

Just a great post, Doc. Agree with the last part especially and that's why I don't see Cavs winning 2 more games. What they did tonight is not sustainable at all. They hit a lot of difficult shots going 1 on 1.

[Doctor MJ]

They probably close out next game, but would be really disappointing if Curry got the FMVP. He doesn't deserve it one bit.

Without Green, all his weaknesses were in focus, particularly the lack of on-ball playmaking.

I think people are really prisoners of the make-or-miss moment here. Golden State's offense worked just fine, and yeah Klay was hot early, but the team was getting open looks down the stretch. They just weren't going in.

I also think people need to remember that as long as Curry is on the floor, he is the guy the defense is programmed to mitigate, and so he is the one creating the gravity others work with.

In terms of Finals MVP:

Among Warriors I believe Curry still has the most points, and had by far the most points in the ONLY game where the Warriors won on the back of a star's performance, all while being clearly THE guy the defense is geared to stop. On the other end? Had 3 blocks tonight and has a number of great steals. His man defense is always limited, but we just saw Kyrie tonight not seem to care whether it was Curry or Klay on him, so I think all the talk about that being all about Curry's defensive issues just doesn't hold up. When Kyrie plays like this, he's going to get his.

So yeah, I don't know who else I'd vote for Finals MVP from the Warriors besides Curry at this point. Could change in the next game or two, but right now I'd go Curry over Klay, and I've always thought (this year and last) that the notion that Iggy was truly more valuable just wildly underestimates the foundational impact the stars have in letting Iggy be that piece of the puzzle.

What about Cavs and the Finals MVP? Nah, not right now. Every reason to think this series is over in 5 if the Warriors were healthy tonight.

[HeartBreakKid]

This series is really making Curry look bad, but if you take a step back you still see that GSW gets a lot of good shots because of Curry being on the floor. I think Green deserves FMVP over Curry, but Curry's numbers don't do his impact justice (with that being said, still a weak finals performance for a player of his caliber, among the worst probably).

[kayess]

BTW, goes to show how important Green is. Not taking anything away from LeBron and Irving, they were outstanding, and likely would have had great games regardless, but I don't think it's a coincidence that GS plays one of their worst defensive games when Green doesn't play, and that their small ball lineup all of a sudden gets destroyed down the stretch. It's because Green allows that small ball lineup to work.

Eh, here's what I'd say:

All the scoring stars came out tonight with clarity of role: Attack!

Kyrie had already been there.
LeBron got there knowing Green was out and his back was against the wall.
Curry & Klay knowing that the only way to win was likely if at least one of them went nuclear.

And then? Some guys caught fire more than others (and granted, Curry was the least of the bunch by a good margin), and that decided the game.

I don't think there's any doubt that the loss of a star defender embolden's the opponent, but I saw the shots Kyrie & LeBron were hitting. I don't care who is guarding them, the two of them just don't normally hit like that. And that's just how the game of basketball works.

I always think about Game 7 of the '70 finals. The most interesting part of the game was watching Wilt struggle against great defense...but no matter what he did New York was going to win because their shots just went in well beyond what they typically did.

Put another way: If THAT is what it takes for Cleveland to win a game where GS doesn't have Draymond, that actually says pretty amazing things to me about GS.

I agree with this - if LeBron isn't a monster at the rim, GS gets an extra ~10-12 points or something and then it's anyone's game.

Still, they almost won games 1 and 4 with suboptimal lineups, so that's why you play the games. I don't think winning or losing will affect my view that this Warriors team is the GOAT, but this game does say a lot about GS (and also about Draymond's impact AND how bad Love is on D)

[Doctor MJ]

I wish Curry could be more aggressive but truth is there was nothing Curry could have done to win this game, he might have shot the ball better and got more points but with Bogut down, we have Barnes at center...lebron had a layup feast.
Irving was amazing tonight and our single coverage has not worked. Series is back to a close one again.

It was tied up at the half. That is what I thought he was waiting for for a great 2nd half performance.

Unless every time he pull up from 30 feet and scored, there was not much he would have done. TT and Lebron was in the lane waiting for him and we had nobody to stop them from scoring down low. HB at center...there is very little room for mistake playing like that.
Curry was cold from long range tonight so that was it.

Yeah, whole team went cold. It happens.

People used to like to say: Live by the 3, die by the 3.

It's always true. It's a high variance attack - which is why frankly I'm chocked a team like this even got close to the Bulls' win record - but also means that the real playoff question is just whether you're going to be in the zone enough to win 4 games before the other team.

If in the next game GS catches fire from 3 and wins in a blowout people are going to celebrate Green even if he barely puts up any numbers, but the reality is there's a lot of luck involved here. I don't want to take away the profound impact Green has on the team by any means, but the problem tonight wasn't the GS offense failing to generate looks, it was what was going on on the other end of the floor.

[Doctor MJ]

This series is really making Curry look bad, but if you take a step back you still see that GSW gets a lot of good shots because of Curry being on the floor. I think Green deserves FMVP over Curry, but Curry's numbers don't do his impact justice (with that being said, still a weak finals performance for a player of his caliber, among the worst probably).

Yeah, I'm in this weird position:

One the one hand, I'm all for people recognizing that what Golden State is doing is more noteworthy than what Curry does - the team is the draw for me more than the star - but I find the criticisms of Curry to be out of proportion with what his issues actually are most of the time. Part of it is the tendency to turn certain point guards into laughing stocks for simply being a bit more prone to what is happening to literally every point guard defender in the league. The more interesting part though to me is just the psychological impact of a high variance game on the human brain's perception.

When he makes his shots he's the GOAT, when he misses them he's the goat. But meanwhile his average performance is phenomenal and forces every defense the team plays to fear him far more than any other player on the floor which the way he plays allows for unprecedented spacing impact every time he steps on the floor, and which helps make his teammates feel so confident and seem even smarter than they actually are.

[kayess]

Sure Curry still creates a lot for his teammates, and I'm not commenting on his level of play here - but a lot of the wide open looks generated by the Warriors were just abominably bad awareness and D by the Cavs. Love running the wrong way, Smith not contesting... It's just terrible.

There's no doubt he exerts influence just by being on the floor, and it's part of forcing the defense into mistakes, but some of the mistakes this game were worse than if the Cavs had cones instead of players out there.

[Massamba]

Depending on how u view Draymond missing this game, i think Steph has only been the 5th best player at best in these finals after Kyries performance now in this one. Lebron, Iggy, Kyrie and Draymond have all been better to me.

And you can make a case for Livingston being better than Curry in the finals.