Timmyyy wrote:Jaivl wrote:Joey Wheeler wrote:But Kawhi is clearly better than Jordan/Lebron have ever been on defense imo
We are in 2019, you surely mean worse? Right now he's probably closer to the worst defender on the starting lineup (!!!!) than to the best (Marc).
Kawhi at this point has been comfortably the best player in the PO. Great on offense and really good on defense too, but it seems some people want to push him to a level he flat out isn't because this year we have a bit of an underwhelming year where none of the top guys really have some sort of all time great year. Giannis and Harden with the great RS and solid but not great PO. Green and Kawhi with great PO but mediocre RS, Curry inconsistent and Jokic great all around but not really all time great.
That being said I think that this 'Kawhi is some sort of monster on D in the PO's' is largely coming from the desire to see something all time great this year. His scoring is all time great, definitely and the whole package actually too. But his defense in my eyes is not. So no need to exaggerate the good but not great parts of his game to elevate him even higher. No way for example is he better than 2016 PO LeBron on defense this year.
Colbinii wrote:Joey Wheeler wrote:Statlanta wrote:
It's passable at Kobe level. Not a far but a clear gap from Jordan/LeBron level.
I'd agree with your post if we were just talking offense. But Kawhi is clearly better than Jordan/Lebron have ever been on defense imo, which closes the gap significantly. What he did especially vs the Bucks on that end (while being great on offense) was incredible, he was containing Giannis often and reading/blowing up so many Bucks plays. He's genuinely game-changing on defense aside from being a 30pt scorer on high efficiency.
I wish this narrative would die.
LeBron was better defensively in multiple series in 2012, 2013 and 2016 than current Kawhi.
Jordan had some special defensive series as well, notably 1991 against Philly and 1993 against the Knicks.
It's just faulty logic to use one series samples for Kawhi but act like he has played this way all season while Jordan and LeBron have proven to have defensive series better than Kawhi [especially LeBron who can actually anchor a defense].
shotcreator wrote: hi
Can you post the 2016 Defensive Stats for LeBron in the Finals?
Honestly I think it's the other way round, people are resisting the idea of Kawhi being at that level because it's so new and unexpected.
Let's start with the obvious: Toronto's defense is absolute suffocating, it's undoubtedly all-time great, historically great. It's clearly a better defense than any team Jordan or Lebron have ever been a part of, though some of the Bulls championship teams could be pretty suffocating on defense as well. This'd not be possible if a guy playing 40+ minutes at the wing wasn't a very positive team defender at worst.
Aside from that, he's GOAT level man defender on the perimeter, even superstars are hesitant to do their thing when Kawhi is on them, we saw Butler and especially Giannis in ECF being deterred from even attempting to drive when Kawhi was on him.
Finally, and I'm surprised many 'eye tests' haven't captured this, but the Raptors force a lot of turnovers through Kawhi helping off his man, reading and blowing up plays. This was especially prevalent vs the Bucks where he often did both at once, guarded Giannis and since he wasn't a big off ball threat helped off him to blow their offense, Toronto went on a lot of key on the strength of this.
Overall, his defense is absolutely elite for a perimeter player, Jordan was never this good on that end, Lebron maybe (big maybe) for small stretches. Don't get me wrong, both (and a couple other players for that matter) are clearly better on offense despite Kawhi's great scoring numbers and I'd take them if forced to choose, but Kawhi has been close to that level in these playoffs.
