Retro POY '84-85 (Voting Complete)

[mysticbb]

Note also that I've made some changes to the site. I've added where each player ranked for the MVP, DPOY, All-NBA, and All-Defense awards.

Looks good. Small error: Steve Nash was the MVP in 2005.

I'm not really a fan of DPOY and All-Defense teams, because that is one specific area while there is no equivalent for pure offensive players.

[Dr Positivity]

So Jordan ends up with 9.578. Great run, but I think it will be beaten

[JordansBulls]

So Jordan ends up with 9.578. Great run, but I think it will be beaten

Yeah, but his 9 POY probably won't be.

[Gongxi]

KAJ will definitely beat 9.578. I dunno about 9 POY- Russell and Wilt could split the votes much like Bird and Magic seem to have done.

[semi-sentient]

Looks good. Small error: Steve Nash was the MVP in 2005.

Thanks for catching that. Putting all those numbers in the spreadsheet (after the fact) was a major pain in the ass and while I tried being as careful as possible, there are probably typos here and there.

[Doctor MJ]

KAJ will definitely beat 9.578. I dunno about 9 POY- Russell and Wilt could split the votes much like Bird and Magic seem to have done.

I dunno about Kareem beating Jordan. It could happen, but look at the MVP share leaders:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... areer.html

Jordan's got a huge lead there. Jordan moved up from the 8's to the 9's largely on the basis of playoff performances forcing the issue. For Kareem to be a sure thing, that would probably mean he'd be going from the 6's to the 10's without any similar playoff>RS trend. I realize that Kareem was a victim of MVP-voter-fatigue, but will it really make that huge of a difference?

Maybe I'm missing something due to the amount of points they gave in the MVP voting back then being different?

[ronnymac2]

In that 49 point game, Jordan's scoring was almost exclusively on exactly what I said his game was- athletic ability and creativity when slashing, and a nice touch in the mid-post. He should be lauded for this, but rookie Jordan didn't have the post game he'd have, and he didn't have the range either. He didn't have the variety.

He didn't need to have that kind of stuff at this time. He done a great job just by using his body. And his reverse layup was unstoppable, why should he use something different?

He beat Isiah Thomas numerous times off the dribble as Thomas tried to stay in front of him. That was comical, especially because Thomas tried similar things on the other end against Jordan and failed.

To Mysticbb and ElGee......Alex English had a great season. Why English, you ask?

Nobody said he played a bad season, but his season wasn't better than Jordan's. Jordan was better in every aspect of the game, better scorer, better rebounder, better passer and better defender. I don't see any point in which English was better than Jordan.

Jordan had better stats in the regular season, though English was no slouch.

English played in a crazy face paced offense, the Bulls on the other side played way slower.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... i?id=lzzkr

Look at the advanced stats, Jordan beats him out easily across the board.

Come playoff time, the experienced English put up better stats in just about every area except steals/blocks/assists and PER.

Jordan had to play against the best perimeter defensive team in the league. For sure he had it tough to do everything. He needed to have a great game in game 3 to give the Bulls the win. Just imagine that he had a 30/4/12 game in game 2 and they lost. Jordan ended up with the higher PER, even in the playoffs. The reason is the high paced game of the Nuggets and the slower paced game of the Bulls.

Obviously not the be all and end all, but it at least indicates the guy was playing at a very, very high level.

Yes, he did, but for the whole year he didn't play better than Jordan. Combine the numbers for regular season and playoffs and Jordan is easily ahead of English.

I don't think it's crazy to take Jordan as high as number three. Like I said, he belongs in that large second tier. But to say he had a better year than English and it isn't close it just wrong.

Whatever though. My vote didn't affect much anyway. haha

[Dr Positivity]

I actually think Russell tops this. He should make the ballot all 13 of his years and Im betting hes 1 or 2 on 10-11 of them (off the top of my head I think his rookie season, Oscars MVP year, and his last year are the biggest candidates for him to finish 3rd). Even the years he finishes 2 he should still put up some .800 type numbers like Magic did last year. His #1s will be .900+.

For example if he gets 6 #1s at an average of .850 (indicating half his 1sts are near unanimous and half split votes with Wilt or Oscar), 4 #2s at an average of .750 (indicating some of his 2nds get 1st place votes - I could see him averaging .800+ here too), and 3 #3s at an average of .550 (again I could also see this higher), he ends up with 9.75 which beats Jordan. If he averages .800+ on 2nds and .600+ on 3rds he will beat Jordan for sure

[JordansBulls]

I actually think Russell tops this. He should make the ballot all 13 of his years and Im betting hes 1 or 2 on 10-11 of them (off the top of my head I think his rookie season, Oscars MVP year, and his last year are the biggest candidates for him to finish 3rd). Even the years he finishes 2 he should still put up some .800 type numbers like Magic did last year. His #1s will be .900+.

For example if he gets 6 #1s at an average of .850 (indicating half his 1sts are near unanimous and half split votes with Wilt or Oscar), 4 #2s at an average of .750 (indicating some of his 2nds get 1st place votes - I could see him averaging .800+ here too), and 3 #3s at an average of .550 (again I could also see this higher), he ends up with 9.75 which beats Jordan. If he averages .800+ on 2nds and .600+ on 3rds he will beat Jordan for sure

Not sure how exactly Russell is going to get that many top ballots when he hardly even made 1st team all nba. 1969 he really doesn't have much of a case better than #4.

[Optimism Prime]

I actually think Russell tops this. He should make the ballot all 13 of his years and Im betting hes 1 or 2 on 10-11 of them (off the top of my head I think his rookie season, Oscars MVP year, and his last year are the biggest candidates for him to finish 3rd). Even the years he finishes 2 he should still put up some .800 type numbers like Magic did last year. His #1s will be .900+.

For example if he gets 6 #1s at an average of .850 (indicating half his 1sts are near unanimous and half split votes with Wilt or Oscar), 4 #2s at an average of .750 (indicating some of his 2nds get 1st place votes - I could see him averaging .800+ here too), and 3 #3s at an average of .550 (again I could also see this higher), he ends up with 9.75 which beats Jordan. If he averages .800+ on 2nds and .600+ on 3rds he will beat Jordan for sure

Not sure how exactly Russell is going to get that many top ballots when he hardly even made 1st team all nba. 1969 he really doesn't have much of a case better than #4.

Because if the best two players in the league are both centers, one will end up on the 2nd team. Simple as that.