Bargnani vs. Gallinari

[Kabookalu]

How? You guys are just a poor-man's version of last year's Raptors with an older, worse version of Bosh.

SO EXCITING!

Say what? If Bogut's healthy, they've got a 15/10 big man who defends very well, they've got a great wing defender in Mbah A Moute, they've got Salmons and Maggette to add wing scoring, they've got Brandon Jennings (an awesome young talent who's also a good defender), and they drafted a high-upside athletic big.

They're way different than Toronto.

He's talking about New York.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Lol @ a Raptors fan making jokes about other teams. Even us Knicks fans have more of a right to brag than you guys;

How? You guys are just a poor-man's version of last year's Raptors with an older, worse version of Bosh.

SO EXCITING!

I fail to see how the Knicks are this year's version of the Raptors. Gallo>Turk, Felton>Calderon, Chandler>DD, AR> Amir/Kleiza/Davis/Whomever...not to mention, this team actually has people who play defense. So because both teams run fast paced offenses, something the Knicks actually didn't do last year...but you wouldn't know that because you don't watch the Knicks, and each team has an Italian player, and star power forwards (although Amar'e >Bosh...) they are the same? I really don't see it...nice try though!

[Lionel Messi]

Lol @ a Raptors fan making jokes about other teams. Even us Knicks fans have more of a right to brag than you guys;

How? You guys are just a poor-man's version of last year's Raptors with an older, worse version of Bosh.

SO EXCITING!

I fail to see how the Knicks are this year's version of the Raptors. Gallo>Turk, Felton>Calderon, Chandler>DD, AR> Amir/Kleiza/Davis/Whomever...not to mention, this team actually has people who play defense. So because both teams run fast paced offenses, something the Knicks actually didn't do last year...but you wouldn't know that because you don't watch the Knicks, and each team has an Italian player, and star power forwards (although Amar'e >Bosh...) they are the same? I really don't see it...nice try though!

Ya, Amare is a worse defender, passer, rebounder and scorer than Bosh but he has nice dunks so therefore Amare>Bosh

And I didn't see any defence at all when i watched the Knicks last year. I mean, 3 or 4 of our players had the best games of their season on the Knicks last year.
I love Anthony Randolph but he isn't Dwight Howard or KG he isn't going to be some kind of defensive superpower.

Also, the Raptors didn't run that much last season either, but you wouldn't know since you didn't watch them at all I guess.
I actually watched upwards of 10-15 Knicks games (yes I know it's not 82 but it's more than any other regular fan would watch that absolute abomination).
Amare<Bosh
AR????????Bargnani (big injury, tough to tell right now, but so far it's Bargs)
Gallo>hedo
DD/Weems<Chandler
Jack/Calderon~=Felton (all three are very average players)

Bench:
Amir>Mozgov? Barron?
DD/Weems<Buike (if he comes back from the injury all right)
Calderon/Jack>Douglas (although I like Douglas)

So roughly the same crap. How many games do you expect to win with that roster? 38? 40? 42? 45???

[Lionel Messi]

How? You guys are just a poor-man's version of last year's Raptors with an older, worse version of Bosh.

SO EXCITING!

Say what? If Bogut's healthy, they've got a 15/10 big man who defends very well, they've got a great wing defender in Mbah A Moute, they've got Salmons and Maggette to add wing scoring, they've got Brandon Jennings (an awesome young talent who's also a good defender), and they drafted a high-upside athletic big.

They're way different than Toronto.

Haha, I loved the Bucks last year, second favourite team in the east.

And yeah, they're the complete opposite of what the Raptors were.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I fail to see how the Knicks are this year's version of the Raptors. Gallo>Turk, Felton>Calderon, Chandler>DD, AR> Amir/Kleiza/Davis/Whomever...not to mention, this team actually has people who play defense. So because both teams run fast paced offenses, something the Knicks actually didn't do last year...but you wouldn't know that because you don't watch the Knicks, and each team has an Italian player, and star power forwards (although Amar'e >Bosh...) they are the same? I really don't see it...nice try though!

Ya, Amare is a worse defender, passer, rebounder and scorer than Bosh but he has nice dunks so therefore Amare>Bosh

And I didn't see any defence at all when i watched the Knicks last year. I mean, 3 or 4 of our players had the best games of their season on the Knicks last year.
I love Anthony Randolph but he isn't Dwight Howard or KG he isn't going to be some kind of defensive superpower.

Also, the Raptors didn't run that much last season either, but you wouldn't know since you didn't watch them at all I guess.
I actually watched upwards of 10-15 Knicks games (yes I know it's not 82 but it's more than any other regular fan would watch that absolute abomination).
Amare<Bosh
AR????????Bargnani (big injury, tough to tell right now, but so far it's Bargs)
Gallo>hedo
DD/Weems<Chandler
Jack/Calderon~=Felton (all three are very average players)

Bench:
Amir>Mozgov? Barron?
DD/Weems<Buike (if he comes back from the injury all right)
Calderon/Jack>Douglas (although I like Douglas)

So roughly the same crap. How many games do you expect to win with that roster? 38? 40? 42? 45???

Bosh and Amar'e did not play defense. Bosh rebounded the ball better...yeah, but that's it. Amar'e contested more shots than Bosh did. Other than that, they are both very good offensively. Thing that puts Amar'e above Bosh on offense is that he is MUCH more physical than Bosh is...he isn't afraid of contact.

This year's team is completely different, dude. Last year's team didn't play defense outside of Chandler, Gallo, and TD really. This team actually has players that ENJOY playing defense and are GOOD at it. This team is going to be a solid, maybe not great, but a good defensive team.

I'm not expecting Randolph to be Howard/KG...nor did I ever say that or imply that. He is a very good defender though...there's no debating that. He's also incredibly versatile on offense...he's going to be a very good player for the Knicks, no doubt about that.

We're going to disagree on Bosh and Amar'e so let's leave that one out...Jack/Calderon is not equal to Felton. People forget that Felton was amazing in college when he was running a fast break team...he was playing a half court offense in Charlotte which hindered his talents. Now that he's going to be running again, he's going to be much better on offense. Now to defense...there's no debating that Felton is a much better defender than both of them. Felton gets the nod.

We agree on Gallo/Hedo...that's actually kinda nice lol. Put that one away...also put away Chandler because we agreed on that one as well.

We should just be comparing starting lineups because the Knicks have no idea who will be coming off the bench as Amar'e, Gallo, and Felton are the only players guaranteed a starting spot. I said that AR>Bargs because he affects the game more on offense and defense. He's a gamechanger...not a superstar, but someone who is going to leave his handprint on the game.

I'll agree that the Knicks are SIMILAR (but not the same team) to the Raps from last year on offense alone...although, this Knicks team is going to be more efficient. The huge difference is going to be on the defensive end...the Knicks have the huge edge there. Honestly, I expect the Knicks to win (at least) 44 games...this is the first year D'Antoni has a legit team that will play for the name on the front and not the name on the back. Not to mention, he has players that he can use in his system...add defense to his offensive scheme, and the team becomes dangerous. People will be surprised by the Knicks this year...

Sorry about the really long post lol...I had a lot to type. We're probably not going to agree on the Knicks...

[Lionel Messi]

Umm, Bosh isn't afraid of contact at all. He's just thinner than Amare so instead of scoring ON defenders he uses more finesse, but either way he gets to the FT line and had almost as many and1's as Amare last season.
Plus Bosh's strength on defence is that he knows where to go, and gets to the spots he's supposed to get to. He was just always afraid to foul so he'd set up for a charge or simply contest shots at the rim with his hands and not get overly aggressive in an attempt to block it.
Amare is a block-chaser on defence, but he isn't even good at it. He's worse than Bosh at defending the pick and roll and often loses focus. Bosh actually communicates on defence and gets to the right spots and such, he just doesn't go ALL OUT because he has developed the habit of NOT FOULING AT ALL COSTS. You'll see the true Bosh on defence come out only in crunch time when he only has like 1 or 2 fouls and doesn't need to conserve energy and that's when he's REALLY going after it.
I expect him to surprise a lot of people on defence this year, now that he has defensively adequate teammates and he doesn't have to be relied on offensively at all.
Also, Bosh has more mid-range weapons than Amare. Amare has the jab-step, drive, or shot but Bosh has spins, fakes, jab-steps, fadeaways and arguably the quickest first step among any big men.
Not to mention Bosh has a better off-hand and is a better finisher in traffic (but Amare makes up for that part by being the better power finisher).

I wouldn't be surprised if the Knicks are better than the Raptors last year, but only if Anthony Randolph puts it together and the more "average" players like Chandler/Felton play well. Anyhow, even if they are better than the Raptors were last year, I'm not sure by how much. I wouldn't say 45 wins, I'd say a 40-42 win season is a reasonable expectation.

[AussieBuck]

The Knicks are definitely the new Raptors. Maybe they'll have marginally better D but they won't score as well.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I just don't see the Knicks as the new Raptors...really, at all except for a few similarities on offense (although, I think the Knicks will have better efficiency because they will be able to play half-court basketball as well).

Also, the D won't just be "marginally better"...it will be significantly better.

[paul]

I just don't see the Knicks as the new Raptors...really, at all except for a few similarities on offense (although, I think the Knicks will have better efficiency because they will be able to play half-court basketball as well).

Also, the D won't just be "marginally better"...it will be significantly better.

Why?

[AussieBuck]

You were the third worst D last season and haven't added much other than fantasy basketball D. Turiaf won't get many minutes because he doesn't shoot the ball so it will up to Randolph and Amare to protect the paint. The knicks will be a mortal lock to be in the bottom third of defensive teams. As to having better efficiency, the Raptors were just a fraction short of the second best scoring team in the league. Good luck with all that.

[ipoopinmypants]

Up next: Gallo vs. Bargnani vs. Bogut. That would be a doozy.

[paul]

Up next: Gallo vs. Bargnani vs. Bogut. That would be a doozy.

Yeah, no it wouldn't

Think Randolph vs Bargs vs Oden vs Bynum with a few mentions of Amir Johnson and Gallo, then you're on the right track.

[AussieBuck]

Up next: Gallo vs. Bargnani vs. Bogut. That would be a doozy.

Yeah, no it wouldn't

Think Randolph vs Bargs vs Oden vs Bynum with a few mentions of Amir Johnson and Gallo, then you're on the right track.

Needs some Derrick Rose. There are more efficient PG's but only on paper!

[ipoopinmypants]

Up next: Gallo vs. Bargnani vs. Bogut. That would be a doozy.

Yeah, no it wouldn't

Think Randolph vs Bargs vs Oden vs Bynum with a few mentions of Amir Johnson and Gallo, then you're on the right track.

Needs some Derrick Rose. There are more efficient PG's but only on paper!

Now THAT would be something to see. A mega-RealGM-fan-sh*t-talking clash.

[clownparade]

both players should be traded for cash to the wolves to join darko as busted euros

[bogut6]

Bogut v Bargs v Gallo v Rose v Shannon Brown v Rubio.

Epic.

[bogut6]

Just watched that video gi4c2om0 has in his sig. That is nothing short of amazing. I lol'd very hard.

[Lionel Messi]

I just don't see the Knicks as the new Raptors...really, at all except for a few similarities on offense (although, I think the Knicks will have better efficiency because they will be able to play half-court basketball as well).

Also, the D won't just be "marginally better"...it will be significantly better.

There you go again with the "I never watched the Raptors" stuff again. The Raptors were in the middle of the pack in terms of pace and were the 5th best offence. How much more efficient can you really get?
You're talking like 20th in pace and a top 3 offence. It just won't happen, especially since the Raptors had a better offensive set up than this year's Knicks.

The Knicks half court set up will NOT be that nice this year. Randolph can't shoot, he's like a poor man's Odom in terms of shooting, which is bad. Felton is not reliable, he can be streaky but he is not nearly as good a shooter as Calderno/Jack. Then you have Chandler who is about the same as Weems and Gallinari who is a better shooter than Turkoglu but Turkoglu is almost as big of a "threat" if you know what I mean.
Then Bargnani ends up being the deciding factor over Randolph. He's a way better option because he has lots of range and pulls a big man out of the paint. Then Bosh is more used to getting Iso's all the time and who has more weapons in his offensive arsenal than Amare.

[ipoopinmypants]

Just watched that video gi4c2om0 has in his sig. That is nothing short of amazing. I lol'd very hard.

Oh I did more than "lol very hard" when I first saw it. I cried and cried and cried, until I had to stop because my cheek muscles were tired from all the laughter.

[ronnymac2]

ronny...

With Bargs, he's shown some flashes. It's tough to evaluate, because 3/4s of his buckets were assisted last year and it was higher than that in previous seasons, but he's shown some good handles for a dude his size, a good first step, obviously the jumper, and a developing game with his back to the basket (basic hook shots and so forth). It's possible, I mean he's 7' 250, he's got a decent base.

No sane person is predicting Dirk-like numbers from him, but he's got the tools to be a fairly impressive scorer if he can get sorted out and semi-consistent. The big issue with him isn't offense, though, it's defense and rebounding; he's an abysmal rebounder and whatever improvements he's made have been marginal; his career-high TRB% is 10.4%, which is 1.2% better than his career-low/rookie numbers, and that's pathetic for a 4/5. Like, no-excuse, godawful, waste-of-skin, why-are-you-breathing-my-air pathetic for a big man.

I can understand why is ORB% is lower, he spends a lot of time away from the rim behind the arc, or did. That will change if he's being asked to create his own shot a little more, and in fact has changed; his ORB% this past season was 4.6%, which is better than all but 4 seasons from Nowitzki (one of which was his 47-game rookie season, so it doesn't count), so that's actually really promising. His big problem is that he's 4-6% below where he should be in DRB%. He needs to be in the 18-20% range there, which isn't epic, it's just good for a player at that position (Dirk rocks 22.1% on his career, and has been 24%+ 3 times, topping out at 25.0). I'd be comfortable with that, since it'd make Andrea something like a 13-4% TRB player, which is much more acceptable than his absurdly ineffectual play in that respect at the moment.

He's a slack-off bastard on the defensive glass, though, I constantly complain about the fact that he doesn't position well and doesn't move to the ball, particularly under Numpty Triano, who I hope gets fired very quickly.

We'll see. He has potential as a scorer, but he's definitely not a franchise-type player without some radical changes to his game, and it worries me that we continue to treat him as if he's an equal to or replacement for someone like Chris Bosh even, who is himself a second-tier player.

All right, yeah, that's what I thought, too. Personally, I just don't want a terrible rebounder and average at best defender starting and playing the important minutes at my big man positions when his offense isn't truly elite. There's just no point. "He provides spacing" isn't a good enough reason for me.

Can't deny he's talented though. If he fulfills the potential you talked about, he'd be pretty damn good. Probably an all-star.

Thanks for the info.