An Unbiased Fan wrote:I'm using PPG created to show actual offensive production. Why wouldn't I? Of course HO, TD, & KB have differing roles. Kobe's role was as a volume scorer, facilitator, and closer. He excelled at all 3, and that certainly speaks to his production value.
So Duncan and Olajuwon didn't excel at closing out games, despite having an inferior supporting cast to which Bryant has never had the impact to go through
Defensively, Kobe had importance in LA's runs. From 00'-10' we can see tangible evidence of Kobe effecting series by his defense on opposing perimeter players. Does he have the impact of a defensive anchor, no, but he DID have an impact.
No. This argument is already blown out the window, considering the Lakers with O'Neal are amongst the top 3 in the league with point in the paint defense. Olajuwon and Duncan's impact is much more superior, it's more "not ridiculous" to say that Duncan and Olajuwon's defensive impact is significantly greater than Bryant's.
Also, Kobe had larger offensive loads for 4 of his titles than Hakeem or TD did, even in 94' & 03'. So I don't see how you can use that argument against him. His PTS% & AST% are higher.
From what aspect? Scoring the basketball? Either Olajuwon or Duncan didn't have the luxury of having one of the most dominant players in history OR having close to the support that he did in '09 or '10.
You're ridiculous, you are comparing AST% and PST% numbers for a perimeter who's main objective is to SCORE the basketball of course their numbers are going to be generally a lot higher, but how can you from that aspect state that he's clearly a better offensive player when they don't even play the same relative position and have completely different objectives throughout the course of a basketball game, how does that automatically make Bryant the superior offensive player, and in this case significantly superior?
That's like using rebound rate, BLK%, and TS% in favor of Duncan & Olajuwon, while taking the hit on Bryant stating they're percentage is significantly higher for either one of those stats, considering , see how ridiculous that sounds?
In what aspect does Olajuwon or Duncan have the ball in their hands at that kind of a level? Here, I'll take it to another level and compare each AST% league-wide relative to their positions.
Kobe Bryant from '01 to '08: 25.3 AST %
D-Wade from '05 to '11: 34.6 AST%
Allen Iverson from '01 to '08: 29.9 AST%
Tracy McGrady from '01to '08: 28.9 AST%
Not superior or even on par with his counter-parts (I'm basing this by SGs on majority All-NBA Teams/MVP-Win-Shares).
Olajuwon from '90 to '97: 14.5 AST%
Shaq O'Neal from '95 to '06: 15.6 AST%
Robinson from '90 to '98 (excluding '97): 13.9 AST%
Ewing from '90 to '97: 11.1 AST%
Alonzo Mourning from '93 to '00: 7.5 AST%
Olajuwon's amongst the elite, only trailing O'Neal by a single percent, with Robinson is not far behind. We already know Chris Webber (20.2%) and Kevin Garnett (19.9%) already excel in terms of prime forms due to their primary goal to facilitate the offense from the high/low post, but Duncan is a clear 3rd (17.6%), significantly ahead of the likes of Nowitzki, Brand, Bosh, Boozer, J. O'Neal.
My point in doing this is that it's unfair you're comparing a guards AST% to to a big-mans, when it's clear what their main objectives are, but when you adjust it relative to their competition and position, they're still amongst the elite. Just like how Bryant is.
If this is seriously your argument in convincing everyone that it's a clear offensive advantage to Bryant, then it's clearly not. I can easily throw out rebound rate, BLK%, and TS% to say "hey! they have higher ones, way higher than Kobes in more categories, that means they're clearly the better player", obviously I'd sound ridiculous.
The Rockets and Spurs were defensive-minded teams
Spurs probably, but MOST definitely not the Rockets. Ask any Rockets fan other than myself, they never literally preached defense, their philosophy wasn't behind being dominant defensively, and they never had a coach that was so constant on keeping the defense aligned.
In fact, they had consistent coaching changes, and even when Rudy T arrived, he wasn't a defensive minded coach, he was more a vocal motivator more than anything. His plays always consisted of pounding the ball to Olajuwon and later let Francis run play-ground plays in a professional basketball league and see where that takes us kind of deal.
And if you're going to seriously bring up the coaching aspect to deteriote some of the accomplishments defensively, Kobe Bryant had the GOAT coach in Phil Jackson, so please don't even start with that.
I don't know why you're posting this.
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You just stated that Bryant was "hands down" the best player on the floor in every Spurs series. I provided Duncan's stats, you're suggesting he played even better than those numbers?
I was speaking to Duncan & kobe's INDIVIDUAL performances. Kobe outplayed TD 3 out of those 4 series.
You're still not understanding that they both play completely different positions, in what context did he outperform Duncan? Here are his numbers again: 25.9 PPG, 12.8 RPG, 4.0 APG, 2.7 BPG, FG 47%. Show me, how did he outperform that? Duncan's weak-side defense also helped contain Shaq from having a monster series (23.9PPG on 52%) and again this is against the Lakers having one of the best paint defenses in the league with Shaq +6.7 (ranked 3 ) in '01 & +7.1 (ranked 2) in '02, so show me how he "outplayed" individually in those series, I still have yet to see any evidence suggesting so.
Baller, are you saying Kobe didn't outplay Duncan individually in 01', 02', & 04'? I mean the games are on Youtube if you want to check. And those series determined 2 champions.
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Stats or GTFO
