RealGM Top 100 List #16

[pancakes3]

You can still look at the overall performance of the team he played on. The 76ers improved only a little bit, when he came. The Rockets had only a small improvement when he joined. When Moses Malone joined the Bullets they improved marginally. We are supposed to believe that Moses Malone made such a big difference, but somehow the teams he joined didn't improve by much, even though in the case of the Rockets and the Bullets it should have been easy to push slightly below average teams to being +3 or +4 teams, but that didn't happen. The 76ers improved a bit, but that was peak Moses Malone going to a +5.7 team, the team went to the finals the year before and even scored 1 point more during those games against the Lakers in the 1982 finals. That was a very strong TEAM, that wasn't a very high impact player pushing them from being mediocre to be a contender.

i feel like you're having a hard time controlling your variables here. In the case of KG, it was the big THREE, not the big KG. on top of adding allen, the C's also started playing perkins and rondo - both of whom are proving to be very good young players.

in Lebron's case you're not factoring in that they added Chris Bosh also, and added a veteran PG in Bibby and a renown, albeit hurt, sg sharpshooter in Miller. gee willikers their SRS skyrocketed! and yet... those stats are almost as empty as ricky davis's scoring numbers because they got rocked in convincing fashion in the finals, no?

then in moses's case, you're essentially penalizing him for not adding enough wins to Houston even though he got to the finals over the Lakers. then you're penalizing him for taking the sixers to a championship in dominating fashion because he didn't do it dominatingly enough. you're being myopic in your fascination with this "wins added" stat and ignoring the actual wins. moses GOT a ring. he WON 3 MVPs. He's been named to the all-nba team loads of times, and at times over KAJ. He went to the finals 3x. He's got fantastic numbers on stellar efficiency. Why do you think he's just smoke and mirrors, and that all of his achievements are just smoke and mirrors?

That is like giving all the credit to Tyson Chandler for the Dallas Mavericks winning the championship, he gave the Mavericks a similar improvement like Moses Malone in 1983.

if Chandler had led the Mavs in scoring and rebounding, won finals MVP, and was named 1st team all-nba, and 1st team all-D. oh you meant in terms of just wins added? sure. Chandler and Moses are exactly the same. wow, +/- SRS, what an eye-opening stat to hedge all my bets on.

That said, I do question whether Moses' style was conducive to the kind of sweeping impact that we've seen from some of the others under consideration. Moses was a center who was a great scorer and a dominant rebounder, especially on offense, but he was a pedestrian defender and a worse passer. His lack of defense, which I consider to be one of the primary job descriptions for any big man, IMO puts him at a sizable disadvantage off the top. He'd need to be ridiculous as an offensive player to overcome the other nominee's offensive contributions to the point that his lack of defense is made up for. And I just don't see that he did that. Moses was a gifted scorer, but as I pointed out in an earlier thread, he was scoring 23.2% of his team's points over his 9-year scoring peak, the same proportion that KG was scoring of the Timberwolves' offense in his scoring peak. I've heard the arguments that scoring can be timely, or that there is something to be said of a scorer that will go on a run of huge scoring to carry a team over stretches...and maybe there's something to that. The problem is, both Dirk and LeBron are a) scoring higher percentages of their teams' points than Moses (I didn't calculate that, but given their scoring ability relative to KG that seems an obvious conclusion) and b) also proven to have both timely and scoring binges like Moses. And on top of the scoring, LeBron and Dirk are both better passers (LeBron much better, even position corrected) than Moses as well, which means that the team offense can be run through and around LeBron and Dirk to a larger degree than it could for Moses, who absolutely had to have teammates capable of generating the ball movement. On the whole, it just seems to me that Moses wasn't as strong of an offensive player as either LeBron or Dirk (or, frankly, Barkley, who had his scoring ability (again, haven't calculated percentages) volume-wise but at much higher efficiency, his rebounding ability, and was a much better passer). And if Moses can't stake his claim offensively, given that he doesn't fulfill what I believe to be a center's responsibility defensively, I just don't see how he can have as big of a positive impact as LeBron, Dirk or Barkley in this comparison.

That seems like a pretty good explanation why we don't see a big improvement of the overall team performances when Moses Malone joined teams like the Rockets, 76ers and Bullets during his better years. And even if we look at the Hawks, they became slightly better offensively, but no change defensively when Moses Malone joined. So, how much stock should we put into 15 double-double seasons?

So we can look at team numbers, but ignore all the team numbers that KG posted on mediocre TWolves squads? Moses was never a defensive anchor like Hakeem or Duncan but there's a huge spectrum of centers from DPoy down to liability. He made the all-d squad twice, and had Shaq's (or DIrk's) DRB%'s. Why assume Moses was a liability on defense? He played average defense - at worse, and was a dynamo offensively.

His scoring numbers are phenomenal. 25+ ppg scoring at a TS% of 57? Drawing 10+ FTA's a game? that is ELITE offensive production.

The way I see it is essentially if Barkley had legit size and banged around at 6'10, he'd be Moses. Hustled after boards, fantastic scorer, and good enough to get a few MVP's and a title or two. Is he as good as Shaq, Kareem, Duncan, or Hakeem? not quite, but he can definitely be the focus point of a team and get you to the championship game a few times.

[Dr Positivity]

As I said before, the 83 Sixers were + Moses and minus Lionel Hollins, Darryl Dawkins, Steve Mix and Caldwell Jones. You replace those guys with the spare parts of the 83 team after the big 5 and the 82 Sixers are in all liklihood a 2 or 3 SRS team IMO, there's value in having 2 good bigs, a second starting caliber PG and an experienced bench scorer. It's like if you added Howard to the Mavs but took away Chandler, Haywood, Peja and Barea and then he only moved them up 2 SRS points.

[colts18]

I can see someone saying that Moses Malone was overrated, but when he is being compared to Kevin Love and especially Tyson Chandler this is going way overboard. That's basically the equivalent of saying that KG is talented but so is Darius Miles so in essence KG is a taller better rebounding Darius Miles.

[Sedale Threatt]

And that's where the purely stat-driven arguments fail. Yeah, there are some statistical similarities between the two. But I highly, highly doubt Love is ever going to get to the point where he's capable of totally devouring a past and future Finals MVP to cap off a season in which he was clearly the best player in the league.

[fatal9]

Vote: Barkley (though wavering a bit now, may switch for Dirk or LeBron later)
Nomination Nash

[ElGee]

Does everyone see that a player could lead his team in scoring at 100% TS and not be the team's best offensive player?

I want to start with that because it's important to keep in mind when discussing someone like Moses. Where did his value come from? At his peak, he was a pretty decent scorer of the ball. Very good, even. But to say his offense is comparable to peak LeBron James is really pushing it.

An offensive player is only as good as his ability to lift the team's offensive efficiency. Period. Whether he does that by scoring, passing, or a mixture it doesn't matter. In Moses case, he was sort of a one trick pony. Some offensive value in his great rebounding, I imagine (and thus a boost in efficiency). But when someone says he's getting 4-7 extra points per game from his OREB, I say 4-7 extra points more THAN WHAT? (I yell it like that, too)

Replace Moses with a different, big, say Bill Walton, and suddenly he isn't pinned down on the baseline while the team is running plays for other guys. Walton's pressuring the defense by screening/popping/rolling and/or flashing to the high post. At all times there, he's pressuring the defense with his ability to score (that mid-range jumper) and uses that and his great vision to help his teammates get open looks. It's easy to imagine the overall efficiency of that system being way better than the same 4 guys playing some sort of 4 on 4 with Moses rooting his large backside under the hoop. So it's 4-7 points extra *from those same team possessions if there were no OREB,* but if you put a better offensive player on the court, maybe the team just scores more in general without ever grabbing an offensive board. (And NB, it may be a single extra OREB relative to another decent big, and the sacrifice may not be that valuable.)

So, you can't really use Moses as the centerpiece of a great offense. He can play Iverson's law fairly well at his peak, because he's got a decent 1-on-1 game with some bunnies around the hoop and that mechanical faceup shot. But even then, he's going to have diminishing returns just based on how he plays. Watch some of the available Rockets games from the early 80s and you'll notice there are some decent shooters/scorers on that team offensively (Dunleavy, Murphy). The defense, OTOH, was not so great...

That said, Moses is no slouch. I think his problems are lack of elite defense (although still good) and his one-dimensionality as an offensive player. This doesn't make him a bad offensive player, it just prevents him from being elite despite having those fat 30/15 numbers.

And note, with all that said, his pace-normalized numbers and relative TS% are:
1979 20.8 +7.4%
1980 24.0 +2.9%
1981 24.5 +5.1%
1982 27.4 +3.8%
1983 22.9 +4.7%

LeBron, OTOH, is carrying a scoring load on lesser teams *and* creating a boatload, leading to some fantastic offenses with some not-so fantastic offensive teammates. His scoring numbers:
2006 29.6 +3.3%
2007 26.5 +1.1%
2008 29.6 +2.8%
2009 30.6 +4.7%
2010 30.0 +6.1%

(LeBron has 4 of the top-25 scoring rate seasons in NBA history: http://www.backpicks.com/2011/01/28/top ... a-history/)

Then there's the with/without family of data. Obviously, LeBron looks like a GOAT-level player in many respects when we look at that information. That jibes largely with other statistics and a fairly common regard for his play. Moses doesn't look quite as good. What to make of that?

We know about 1984 and the games he missed. The team improved 2.9 points to just +2.6. Not too good, but a small grain of salt. In 1978 he did miss a huge chunk of games on a not-so-good team, and the difference there was 4.8 points up to -2.7. He was on a crappy team and made them a lottery team. We'd like more cracks at his with/without data, but we also would like a big number...what we basically see at least once from every qualifying player voted in.

Both small slivers of evidence, but certainly neither suggesting he had some ridiculously dominant role, which the narrative often claims. This lines up with what I saw from Moses.

(Btw, situational value is not the same as general impact in a vacuum/on a random team. But we should remember they are almost always very similar!)

Finally, someone said Moses had no so-called intangible/off-court drama. In 1984, his owner publicly lambasted him for lack of effort and being out of shape. The 1984 season was not a pretty one in Philadelphia, it seems.

I'll echo what Sedale said about himself and suggest that a vote for Moses at this point is just unwillingness to change/recognize new blood..or it's some really strange value being put on his not-so-stellar career from 1984 (or 1986, if you please) to 1995, when he was more Kevin Love than Kevin McHale.

[mysticbb]

i feel like you're having a hard time controlling your variables here.

Yes, it is just a feeling. ;)

In the case of KG, it was the big THREE, not the big KG. on top of adding allen, the C's also started playing perkins and rondo - both of whom are proving to be very good young players.

You either aren't reading or you are not understanding, either way I compared the Celtics in 2008 during the 11 games without Garnett with the result in 71 games with Garnett. Without Garnett in 2008 they were +6.29 SRS, with Garnett +9.77 SRS.

in Lebron's case you're not factoring in that they added Chris Bosh also, and added a veteran PG in Bibby and a renown, albeit hurt, sg sharpshooter in Miller. gee willikers their SRS skyrocketed! and yet... those stats are almost as empty as ricky davis's scoring numbers because they got rocked in convincing fashion in the finals, no?

Again, I you are not reading or understanding, I NEVER compared the 2010 Heat with the 2011 Heat. That would obviously be bs. For James we have the On/Off Court numbers and a few missed games in 2011!

then in moses's case, you're essentially penalizing him for not adding enough wins to Houston even though he got to the finals over the Lakers.

I'M NOT PENALIZING HIM! I just said that I don't see any big improvement, which is a FACT!

then you're penalizing him for taking the sixers to a championship in dominating fashion because he didn't do it dominatingly enough. you're being myopic in your fascination with this "wins added" stat and ignoring the actual wins. moses GOT a ring. he WON 3 MVPs. He's been named to the all-nba team loads of times, and at times over KAJ. He went to the finals 3x. He's got fantastic numbers on stellar efficiency. Why do you think he's just smoke and mirrors, and that all of his achievements are just smoke and mirrors?

Yes, nice story, but I explained multiple times what happened. Can you explain why the 76ers without Erving were no were close to their playing level with him? I'm not giving Malone credit for making a +2 or so improvement. Btw, the same happen in 1984, the team was without Malone +0.0, with him +2.8. Again, a minimal improvement, and you act like he was the greatest difference maker ever. Malone was a lot of boxscore numbers with a good impact, but nothing special in comparison to other All-Time greats. We don't have a single season in which Malone was making really a huge difference.

if Chandler had led the Mavs in scoring and rebounding, won finals MVP, and was named 1st team all-nba, and 1st team all-D. oh you meant in terms of just wins added? sure. Chandler and Moses are exactly the same. wow, +/- SRS, what an eye-opening stat to hedge all my bets on.

I didn't say that Malone and Chandler were exactly the same. How do you come up with bs like that? Malone made an impact offensively, Chandler only defensively. But in essence both brought a similar improvement to their respective teams. You are blinded by big boxscore numbers, especially those offensive rebounding numbers, for which I already explained that they don't have a big influence in average on the outcome of games. Why is that so hard to accept?

So we can look at team numbers, but ignore all the team numbers that KG posted on mediocre TWolves squads? Moses was never a defensive anchor like Hakeem or Duncan but there's a huge spectrum of centers from DPoy down to liability. He made the all-d squad twice, and had Shaq's (or DIrk's) DRB%'s. Why assume Moses was a liability on defense? He played average defense - at worse, and was a dynamo offensively.

Where did you get the impression that we want to ignore the numbers for KG? Garnett made a HUGE difference to those Timberwolves, unlike the Rockets without Malone they really, really sucked. There are multiple examples of that. If we would at least see ONE example of Malone making such a huge difference to a team, I would gladly argue for Moses Malone, believe me. But we didn't have such thing. During his peak years he made not much more difference to the teams than Kevin Love made to the Timberwolves last season. I know, it is hard to accept, but it is really likely given the results we saw with and without Malone.

His scoring numbers are phenomenal. 25+ ppg scoring at a TS% of 57? Drawing 10+ FTA's a game? that is ELITE offensive production.

Yes, and that the reason why I have him #20 overall. He had that elite production, just not that elite impact. ;)

The way I see it is essentially if Barkley had legit size and banged around at 6'10, he'd be Moses. Hustled after boards, fantastic scorer, and good enough to get a few MVP's and a title or two. Is he as good as Shaq, Kareem, Duncan, or Hakeem? not quite, but he can definitely be the focus point of a team and get you to the championship game a few times.

No denying here. But what is the point? I argue that we have players being more impactful than Moses Malone, that doesn't mean I think Moses Malone sucks, just that his boxscore metrics are picturing a better player than he really was.

As I said before, the 83 Sixers were + Moses and minus Lionel Hollins, Darryl Dawkins, Steve Mix and Caldwell Jones. You replace those guys with the spare parts of the 83 team after the big 5 and the 82 Sixers are in all liklihood a 2 or 3 SRS team IMO, there's value in having 2 good bigs, a second starting caliber PG and an experienced bench scorer.

I will not disagree with that. Which is also the reason why we should see a huge drop in team performance with and without Malone in 1984, but we haven't seen that either. Why? That would have been the great opportunity to show how a team which was without him only average improves to be at least a +4 or 5 team, but they were +2.8 with Malone. I have no idea, but that is hardly the difference I think a clear-cut awesome peak player should have. One year removed from being such an awesome player a lot of people claim here, at the age of 28, Moses Malone made not a huge difference to a team, again. That fits perfectly in all the other examples we have. So, either Moses Malone was in that one particular season so much better than in any other season, that we can say he had a great peak season, but still rather not so great overall prime or he maybe just haven't had such a high peak impact? Either way, that is not a great argument for picking Moses Malone over James or Nowitzki.

[pancakes3]

@ mysticbb:
- Then that's even crazier. You're using an 11 game sample size for KG and a 3 game sample size for Lebron in arguing that Moses didn't duplicate their impact?

- You are penalizing him. You're saying "who cares if he took a 40-some win team to the finals? Who cares if he won a ring? that's just 'narrative'. His season-to-season SRS increases don't justify those results and thus I refuse to accept those results." If not penalizing, you're certainly handicapping him.

- You absolutely ignored KG's team numbers with respect to the team D-Ratings as well as relative-to-the-league defensive rankings - defending that KG was always an elite defensive anchor despite his team playing bad defense as opposed to DRob's defensive impact in leading his team to superior D-ratings by citing +/- and choosing to ignore the team rankings.

- How is you saying "that's like crediting Chandler's with this year's Mavs' championship" and then construing it as saying you thinking the two have similar IMPACTS utter and total BS? You said it. You think the two have similar impacts because they both elevated a decent team to a championship, and as a bonus, they added similar SRS's?

- You can say that based on SRS analysis, Moses made as much difference to his team(s) as Kevin Love, but to accept it as gospel? You're right. I won't believe it, but it doesn't make me the backwater, science-hating, number-fearing confirmation-biased creationist that you imply.

[Dr Positivity]

For me what it comes down to is I have an incredibly hard time convincing myself that Moses is as valuable offensively as Lebron or Barkley or Dirk. Those guys are just phemonenal offensive players, maybe all top 10 of all time. I don't see Moses' offensive rebounding making up for the way they make teammates better on that end with more facilitator-y offense. They also all have more longevity in their prime than Moses to me

Then there's the defense. Moses is a better defender I suppose... but he also plays C. The other guys you can slot with a C as good defensively as Moses and not lose anything. I would say Lebron is by far the highest impact defender of the 3 players compared to his position.

Lebron is also the guy I trust in the playoffs the least. But honestly, he has as many years where has impressed me in the playoffs practically as Moses has MVP caliber seasons. So w/e.

I have to rethink Lebron vs Barkley/Dirk though. I don't mind Barkley not having Dirk's title, in my books the 93 Suns are as valuable as the 2011 Mavs and the 94 and 95 Suns could've won the title even past Barkley's prime. Still, I can't help but feel I'd much rather have Dirk's attitude, health, longevity and while not as flashy offensively, the Mavs were top 5 ORTG from 01 to 09 - when he played with offensive players and coaching they had one of the great offensive runs we've seen, when he played a defensive slow down style they still ranked top 5. So Dirk's offensive impact is pretty **** big to me.

Screw it, I'm changing my vote to Dirk Nowitzki. He has extra years, better intangibles and gets the benefit of the doubt for what he just did to Lebron

[Dr Positivity]

The way I see it is essentially if Barkley had legit size and banged around at 6'10, he'd be Moses. Hustled after boards, fantastic scorer, and good enough to get a few MVP's and a title or two. Is he as good as Shaq, Kareem, Duncan, or Hakeem? not quite, but he can definitely be the focus point of a team and get you to the championship game a few times.

I disagree. Barkley and Moses are not similar offensive players.

[Gongxi]

I don't know if I'll be around much in the next day or so, so I'll be voting LeBron. As far as nominations go, arguments here and in other threads have convinced me of Gilmore- barely- over Ewing. I feel bad, I've said I was going with Pat and then changed my mind twice. But...oh well.

[ronnymac2]

Vote: LeBron James

Nominate: Patrick Ewing

For my vote...I honestly couldn't decide, so I went with the best peak player. I was nominating the guy before everybody else was...I have to remember there was a reason for that.

The nomination is fairly straightforward.

[Fencer reregistered]

You guys, especially Elgee, are convincing me to the negative on Moses.

Also, I just took a quick look at his numbers, and if we assume high efficiency on putbacks, then otherwise he wasn't very efficient offensively at all. And since we know he wasn't much of an offensive contributor otherwise, that means that the great offensive rebounding pretty much encapsulates the whole of his offensive excellence.

Changing my vote here from Moses to Dirk.

I'm giving Dirk a few bonus points here for being the first elite Euro in the NBA, and for being in the discussion with Bird as all-time great big man shooter, even as we rank Bird unquestionably over Dirk in other areas of the game.

I expect LeBron to overtake Dirk on these lists before he's done, but IMO he hasn't yet.

[SDChargers#1]

Sorry guys I have been on vacation and I thought I would have more computer access than I have.

I vote for Moses (again) and nominate Pippen (again)

[shawngoat23]

Excellent arguments all around.

I'm still voting for Moses Malone. His impact may not have been as significant as I originally thought, but I do value accomplishments, and three MVPs, two Finals appearances (one of which was with a weak team), a championship, and a Finals MVP is still a pretty big deal. That and a twenty year career.

Really unsure about who I want to nominate, and I have been unsure for the past 6 threads or so. I would really prefer it if we could suspend nominations for 4-5 threads, so that we can get back down to the original 6 nominees per position, then resume nominations again. But until then, I will tentatively go with John Havlicek.

[drza]

Life has called in the last few days, so I haven't had the time to really try to stir up discussion points the way I would like. As I said in my last post, I'm fairly secure with having LeBron, Dirk and Barkley ahead of Moses right now. Which means that I would have liked to have been able to see/participate in more LeBron vs Dirk and/or Barkley discussions. I actually wouldn't be averse to hearing more about David Robinson at this point, as well.

But, voting closes in 20 minutes, so I'll go ahead with what I've got...and still, I haven't been convinced to not go with Nowitzki. So I'll plug him in for the second vote in a row.

As for the nomination, I've been going with Pippen for a couple threads now, and I think I'll stay there until I'm convinced to go otherwise. I saw the post that compared Pippen to Havlicek, and I acknowledge the points made. I also saw those saying that much of Pippen's impact was tied into defense, but a dominant wing defender isn't as impactful as a dominant big defender. And I acknowledge that to usually be true as well.

That said, in a project like this I think we have enough participants and data to make arguments that aren't based just on trends. And I'm not sure that Pippen isn't just the exception as far as "perimeter defenders" go. Pippen wasn't the conventional perimeter defender that was only locked up on their man. He was all-history at that aspect of the game, but he was also outstanding at help defense. I remember traps all over the court, from one baseline to the other. I remember him pin-down trapping on bigs. I remember him being switched onto bigs and holding his own. And while I don't have any +/- numbers for him (ElGee? Anyone?), I can say that in the early-mid 90s we saw the Bulls lose Jordan, and then Horace Grant, along with most if not all of the supporting players at one point or another, but they maintained their very strong defense with only Pippen as the common denominator. And on the '96 team with the #1 defense in the league, I would argue that Pippen was the biggest impact defender on the squad. So I don't know if he fits into the usual perimeter mode. His incredible length/agility combo let him defend on a level that very few, if any, perimeter players can claim. And I think that his playmaking is an extremely underrated factor in that Bulls offense. Jordan is the man, but Pippen was huge on that end as well. In fact, his playmaking abilities (in conjunction with the Triangle offense) allowed Jordan to be in attack mode all the time without it being a detriment to the ball-movement and overall offensive effectiveness of his teammates.

Vote: Dirk Nowitzki
Nominate: Scottie Pippen

[Dr Positivity]

The vote ends tonight, no? I'll do a quick count

[penbeast0]

OK, MIDNIGHT HAS COME AND HERE ARE THE TOTALS (as always, feel free to doublecheck me and see if I miscounted . . . I only have so many fingers and was too lazy to take my shoes off.

VOTES

Moses – Doctor MJ, ThaRegul8r, Black Feet, therealbig3, JordansBulls. Laimbeer. Sedale Threatt, cpower, An Unbiased Fan, SCChargers#1, shawngoat23
LeBron – penbeast0, ElGee, Gongxi, ronnymac2
Dirk – mysticbb, DavidStern, Baller24, Dr Mufasa, Fencer reregistered, drza
Barkley – JayFromLA, fatal9


NOMINATIONS

Ewing – Dr Mufasa. sedale threat, DavidStern, Baller24, ronnymac2
Nash – Doctor MJ, ElGee, mysticbb, fatal9
Stockton – Black Feet, JayFromLA, An Unbiased Fan
Gilmore – penbeast0, Gongxi
Isiah – JordansBulls, Laimbeer
Pippen – therealbig3, SDChargers#1, drza
Havlicek – cpower, shawngoat23

I think it's great that someone else joined me voting for Gilmore although I would have switched my vote to either Havlicek or Ewing if it was a tie since they were both very close for me. But, I have it as Moses winning easily and Ewing over Nash for the nomination 5-4

[therealbig3]

OK, MIDNIGHT HAS COME AND HERE ARE THE TOTALS (as always, feel free to doublecheck me and see if I miscounted . . . I only have so many fingers and was too lazy to take my shoes off.

VOTES

Moses – Doctor MJ, ThaRegul8r, Black Feet, therealbig3, JordansBulls. Laimbeer. Sedale Threatt, cpower, An Unbiased Fan, SCChargers#1, shawngoat23
LeBron – penbeast0, ElGee, Gongxi, ronnymac2
Dirk – mysticbb, DavidStern, Baller24, Dr Mufasa, Fencer reregistered, drza
Barkley – JayFromLA, fatal9


NOMINATIONS

Ewing – Dr Mufasa. sedale threat, DavidStern, Baller24, ronnymac2
Nash – Doctor MJ, ElGee, mysticbb, fatal9
Stockton – Black Feet, JayFromLA, An Unbiased Fan
Gilmore – penbeast0, Gongxi
Isiah – JordansBulls, Laimbeer
Pippen – therealbig3, SDChargers#1, drza
Havlicek – cpower, shawngoat23

I think it's great that someone else joined me voting for Gilmore although I would have switched my vote to either Havlicek or Ewing if it was a tie since they were both very close for me. But, I have it as Moses winning easily and Ewing over Nash for the nomination 5-4

I have the same vote count except for LeBron vs Dirk. I believe Dr. Mufasa voted for LeBron on page 1.

[Fencer reregistered]

He switched his vote toward the end, which inspired me to do similarly.