Where does Wade's 06 finals performance rank all time?

[picc]

There was only one game where I felt Dallas got unjustifiably screwed with the calls (game 6), though incidentally it ended up being the most important one since it won Miami the title.

But even admitting the dubious nature of the refereeing, i’m hesitant to ascribe any more sympathy to Dallas considering they were getting lit up by perimeter players that season anyway (Bryant, 43ppg vs Mavs; Lebron, 41ppg vs Mavs), and for a long period gave up postseason-high series’ to backcourt players (Nash 05, Ginobili 06, Wade 06, Davis 07, Paul 08, Anthony 09).

Regardless of reffing, Dallas didn’t have the capacity to effectively defend star wings, so it means less to me that Wade was getting the benefit of the whistle when he was doing whatever he wanted to their defense without it. If he doesn’t get a few of those iffy perimeter calls....he probably scores anyway.

[Perkele]

The fact that this thread has deteriorated into a Mavs fan vs Heat fan trainwreck means its probably time to just let it die.


I wish my fellow Mavs fans were willing to concede that regardless of the officiating, Wade played great in the 06 Finals.

And I wish the Heat fans were willing to accept that people are always going to question the legitimacy of his performance because of the officiating.

As just one Mavs fan, I've always taken the stance that the officiating was terrible, but not biased in favor of the Heat or Wade in particular. And more importantly that Dwayne Wade played like an absolute boss. Now I still hate him and hate the Heat and was thrilled we got a re-match in 2011, but my personal feelings about Wade aside he was an incredible player who played incredibly well.

Chuck, I've said it within this thread a couple of times that the Mavs have mainly to blame themselves. The refs didn't make them missing easy buckets. That was especially important in the games 3, 5 and 6. Without missing some easy ones, very likely they would have won that series regardless the amount of FT's Wade got. And I never said that Wade played poorly and anything else close to that. He was very good, yes. But basically every Heat fan I've seen on this forum refuses to admit that Wade got many calls which were downright absurd. Did he get fouled? Sure, he did. No question. But there will always be a sour aftertaste in my mouth about the officiating and nothing will ever change that.

But I'll stop here, I have already written down my thoughts about this earlier on and also about any "records" Dirk got according to some Heat fans (which in fact he didn't). The record for FT's attempted in a playoff game is 39 by Shaq. Dirk holds the record for most FT's made without a miss (24-24). The record for most FT's made in a playoff game is 30 by Bob Cousy (30-32). It seems that some people are unable to separate between made and attempted FT's. And as some people wanted to bring up the Dallas-OKC series in the WCF 2011 as a comparison: as a team OKC had more FT's than Dallas (43-36). That game was called very tight, everything was called. The last 4 FT's of Dirk were intentional fouls by OKC to stop the clock.

[cyclix]

Wade's PER was the highest in NBA history. He's TOP 3 at worst.

[BBallFreak]

Another strawman again. No one marginalizes the performances of Wade. We just do not rate them a top 5 or top 10 finals performance, that is all. Why can you guys not accept differing opinions and why do you resort to such bad arguments when no one is attacking you or anyone else who thinks differently?
How are my posts homerism? Which player am I a homer for?

Just another lashing out post with no substance and just getting more off topic.

I'm sorry, but this thread is about rating his Finals performance in '06. How is a discussion, and subsequent debate, of why people rate the performance where they do considered a strawman?

I already explained that. If you did not understand it from my previous posts what the strawman arguments were, then there is no point in explaining it further because you will just continue to either not understand it or ignore it and pretend like it was never explained to you.

If you'd bothered to explain anything of relevance maybe we lowly Heat fans would be listening to you. Instead, here you sit, telling us what we feel and what we're allowed to argue. Sorry, that doesn't work.

We bring up Hack-A-Shaq, show you links to prove it happened (even though you still deny that it happened) and you call it a strawman because Shaq took fewer free throws. We never mentioned his free throws! We mentioned the number of fouls he drew BEFORE the Mavs were in the bonus and pointed to the fact that it made Wade's job easier because they ended up in the bonus sooner. You were the one bringing up the strawman by bringing Shaq's free throws into the argument. Not us.

Then we show two clear pictures of two different fouls on the same, and most controversial, play of the entire series and you call it a strawman, even though that play has been argued countless times, and bears a direct impact on the subject. You then call the term "fix" a strawman even though that was argued, as well.

Finally, picc brings up the Mavs obvious deficiency in defending perimeter threats that season. Is that a strawman, too? Is that one more topic we cannot broach because certain Mavs fans don't like it?

What are we allowed to discuss? How would you like for us to carry on the debate? Since nothing we say is anything other than strawman arguments, why don't you point us in the right direction?

Right now, it seems that anything ay Heat fan brings up is an invalid argument. Apparently, the only right answer is "teh reffzzz!!!!1!!! ZOMG!"

[Wolfy1983]

Another strawman fallacy. Congratulations.

Strawman?

1st off, Wade's performance in those finals has been marginalized due to the fact of how many FT attempts he had throughout the series. There were plenty questionable calls, but to sit there and say all were bad is str8 up laughable. 2nd, your posts ooze of homerism so please stop referring to others as homers, hypocrite.

Another strawman again. No one marginalizes the performances of Wade. We just do not rate them a top 5 or top 10 finals performance, that is all. Why can you guys not accept differing opinions and why do you resort to such bad arguments when no one is attacking you or anyone else who thinks differently?
How are my posts homerism? Which player am I a homer for?

Just another lashing out post with no substance and just getting more off topic.

Your posts get more redundant by the minute. Of course his performance is being marginalized, what the hell are you talking about? FT's this, FT's that, I was just pointing out 1 example that not all the whistles were illegitimate... and who's not accepting others opinions, please point out where I or any other Heat fan for that matter didn't accept them? So now disagreeing constitutes non-acceptance?

[Pg81]

I'm sorry, but this thread is about rating his Finals performance in '06. How is a discussion, and subsequent debate, of why people rate the performance where they do considered a strawman?

I already explained that. If you did not understand it from my previous posts what the strawman arguments were, then there is no point in explaining it further because you will just continue to either not understand it or ignore it and pretend like it was never explained to you.

If you'd bothered to explain anything of relevance maybe we lowly Heat fans would be listening to you. Instead, here you sit, telling us what we feel and what we're allowed to argue. Sorry, that doesn't work.

We bring up Hack-A-Shaq, show you links to prove it happened (even though you still deny that it happened) and you call it a strawman because Shaq took fewer free throws. We never mentioned his free throws! We mentioned the number of fouls he drew BEFORE the Mavs were in the bonus and pointed to the fact that it made Wade's job easier because they ended up in the bonus sooner. You were the one bringing up the strawman by bringing Shaq's free throws into the argument. Not us.

Then we show two clear pictures of two different fouls on the same, and most controversial, play of the entire series and you call it a strawman, even though that play has been argued countless times, and bears a direct impact on the subject. You then call the term "fix" a strawman even though that was argued, as well.

Finally, picc brings up the Mavs obvious deficiency in defending perimeter threats that season. Is that a strawman, too? Is that one more topic we cannot broach because certain Mavs fans don't like it?

What are we allowed to discuss? How would you like for us to carry on the debate? Since nothing we say is anything other than strawman arguments, why don't you point us in the right direction?

Right now, it seems that anything ay Heat fan brings up is an invalid argument. Apparently, the only right answer is "teh reffzzz!!!!1!!! ZOMG!"

I did bother to explain it, you just ignored it.

3 people here have already explained to you that the Mavs did not play "Hack a Shaq" and the stats back this up. If this would have been the case, you would definitely notice an increase in Shaq's FTs which is not the case, he averaged the same amount of FTs as he did in every other series.

Also Hack a Shaq was NOT brought up originally in conjunction with the 2011 series but with the supposedly 2002 series against Sacramento which was also not true as I have proven by showing that Shaq back then had less than 10 FTs on average in that series.

Why do you bring up pictures of fouls and then cry "See, they did foul him, you are wrong" when no one said that every foul was a phantom foul. No did that yet you sit there high and mighty and imply we did claim that.
Also, there was no discussion about particular plays, at least from my side. Never ever commented on any particular play, stop making stuff up.

You are allowed to "discuss" anything you like. Just be ready to be called out on your empty arguments.

Strawman?

1st off, Wade's performance in those finals has been marginalized due to the fact of how many FT attempts he had throughout the series. There were plenty questionable calls, but to sit there and say all were bad is str8 up laughable. 2nd, your posts ooze of homerism so please stop referring to others as homers, hypocrite.

Another strawman again. No one marginalizes the performances of Wade. We just do not rate them a top 5 or top 10 finals performance, that is all. Why can you guys not accept differing opinions and why do you resort to such bad arguments when no one is attacking you or anyone else who thinks differently?
How are my posts homerism? Which player am I a homer for?

Just another lashing out post with no substance and just getting more off topic.

Your posts get more redundant by the minute. Of course his performance is being marginalized, what the hell are you talking about? FT's this, FT's that, I was just pointing out 1 example that not all the whistles were illegitimate... and who's not accepting others opinions, please point out where I or any other Heat fan for that matter didn't accept them? So now disagreeing constitutes non-acceptance?

So far you have yet to provide anything of substance to the discussion. All you did was bringing up 1 picture and then implying that people who are more critical of Wade's finals performance basically claim that all fouls against him were unjustified.

You then go on and pretend like we are on some big smear campaign when this is the first time ever I actually voiced my opinion about Wade's finals performance.

You didn't just disagree, you basically imply that we are butthurt Mav stans who try to somehow make it appear that the Mavs either fell to some big conspiracy or the refs secretly decided the game.

Now maybe you could kindly stop with the attacks and just let the topic rest.

[BBallFreak]

I did bother to explain it, you just ignored it.

No, you didn't. You simply said it was a strawman fallacy and that Heat fans hated hearing differing opinions.

3 people here have already explained to you that the Mavs did not play "Hack a Shaq" and the stats back this up. If this would have been the case, you would definitely notice an increase in Shaq's FTs which is not the case, he averaged the same amount of FTs as he did in every other series.

And I provided three links that said it did. Links trump random guys who don't remember.

Also Hack a Shaq was NOT brought up originally in conjunction with the 2011 series but with the supposedly 2002 series against Sacramento which was also not true as I have proven by showing that Shaq back then had less than 10 FTs on average in that series.

Correct. I brought up Hack-A-Shaq to point out that the Mavs were always in the bonus before Wade ever touched the ball. I also pointed out that, once the Mavs got into the bonus, Miami went away from Shaq. They played the percentages. Wade was a better free throw shooter and the Mavs were having a horrible time defending dynamic wing players. Put it in his hands. Makes sense.

They went away from Shaq. How would his free throws go up if they went away from him?

Why do you bring up pictures of fouls and then cry "See, they did foul him, you are wrong" when no one said that every foul was a phantom foul. No did that yet you sit there high and mighty and imply we did claim that.
Also, there was no discussion about particular plays, at least from my side. Never ever commented on any particular play, stop making stuff up.

Clearly you missed the subtlety of the meaning behind those pictures, so let me expound a bit. In 2006 that play in particular was used to illustrate how bad the officiating was in favor of Miami. It took those pictures to point out that that play was NOT called incorrectly. And even then, you still had people screaming about the refs.

It wasn't meant as a "see this play" thing. It was meant as a generalization for the entire series.

You are allowed to "discuss" anything you like. Just be ready to be called out on your empty arguments.

So, I provide links, pictures get provided showing actual fouls on the most controversial play of the series, you call strawman on every point that doesn't back up your view, and my arguments are empty?