Giannis Antetokounmpo vs Andrew Wiggins

HeartBreakKid · Post #81 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 8:01 pm

We're a quarter into the season.

Wiggins - 21/4/1.7 on 51 TS%

Giannis - 16/6.4/2.5 on 58 TS%, 1.2 BLK

Dr Positivity · Post #82 » by **Dr Positivity** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 8:07 pm

Wiggins DRPM (-3.09) is 7th worst in the league

Johnny Firpo · Post #83 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 8:16 pm

Yeah, Giannis is clearly a better player at this point, but I would still take Wiggins based on his ceiling. I like the Greek Freak but his mindset is a little bit disappointing. He could take over the league with a different, way more aggressive mentality. After the Cavs game it was clear to me, he could do anything on the court if he'd set his mind to it.

Zeitgeister · Post #84 » by **Zeitgeister** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 9:10 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:Wiggins DRPM (-3.09) is 7th worst in the league

Yeah, there's clearly a disconnect there or the RPM numbers are relying too much on box score metrics. Wiggins in the very least has been a good man defender.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/talkhoops/status/674095980946542592[/tweet]

Wiggins needs to really work on his shooting mechanics though because he's very streaky and just bad from three point range. He's even a streaky shooter from the free throw line.

dontcalltimeout · Post #85 » by **dontcalltimeout** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 9:48 pm

Zeitgeister wrote:
Dr Positivity wrote:Wiggins DRPM (-3.09) is 7th worst in the league

Yeah, there's clearly a disconnect there or the RPM numbers are relying too much on box score metrics. Wiggins in the very least has been a good man defender.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/talkhoops/status/674095980946542592[/tweet]

Wiggins needs to really work on his shooting mechanics though because he's very streaky and just bad from three point range. He's even a streaky shooter from the free throw line.

Yea it's possible that Wiggins's DRPM is being dragged down by the box-score prior. In fact RPM thinks a little bit more highly of his defense than BPM does.

However, relying on the FG% of the person he's closest to is not a good measure of his overall defense. You could make the case in some contexts that it's reflective of man-defense, but:

HeartBreakKid · Post #86 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 10:16 pm

Zeitgeister wrote:
Dr Positivity wrote:Wiggins DRPM (-3.09) is 7th worst in the league

Yeah, there's clearly a disconnect there or the RPM numbers are relying too much on box score metrics. Wiggins in the very least has been a good man defender.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/talkhoops/status/674095980946542592[/tweet]

Wiggins needs to really work on his shooting mechanics though because he's very streaky and just bad from three point range. He's even a streaky shooter from the free throw line.

That's an isolation metric if I am not mistaken. Getting that deep into negative DRPM means that he doesn't understand rotations yet.

Dr Positivity · Post #87 » by **Dr Positivity** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 10:19 pm

I don't think he's as bad defensively as RPM says but the team is 2.4 points worse defensively with him on despite playing the most minutes with Rubio of anyone, along with the Drb, Stl, Blk indicators not showing up for him, so it would appear he's on the wrong side of it for now although possibly for youth reasons

Ryoga Hibiki · Post #88 » by **Ryoga Hibiki** » Wed Dec 9, 2015 12:20 pm

I don't see anything bad in Giannis's attitude and mentality. I haven't heard the coaching stuff complaining, I assume he's doing what asked and that's a very good sign. Not a big fan of selfish and arrogant 20 yo players...

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Post #89 » by **Prez** » Wed Dec 9, 2015 4:05 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:Yeah, Giannis is clearly a better player at this point, but I would still take Wiggins based on his ceiling. I like the Greek Freak but his mindset is a little bit disappointing. He could take over the league with a different, way more aggressive mentality. After the Cavs game it was clear to me, he could do anything on the court if he'd set his mind to it.

It has very little to do with himself. He has consistently played with some of the dumbest, most self-centered offensive guards (in a basketball sense of course) in the league...Grevis Vasquez..Jerryd Bayless, Brandon Knight..MCW...the list goes on. Not to mention his rookie year he was used exclusively as a spot up corner 3 shooter and pretty much not allowed to do anything in Larry Drew's offense. And last year despite getting a bigger role overall, was explicitly told by Kidd not to shoot from distance.

Wiggins plays with one of the most brilliant and naturally talented passers and floor generals in the league...and last year when he was struggling, was demanded to shoot and do more offensively.

We don't have a brilliant playmaker like Rubio to set up our offense, and if Giannis is struggling our guards take it upon themselves to further freeze him out and play heroball. But on those nights where our guards are...less dumb...and we make it a point to run the offense through Giannis (and Jabari for that matter), good things happen. There is nothing wrong with his attitude. It's just a matter of time. We're developing him a lot like the Spurs developed Kawhi...develop his all-around game first, and when he's ready, then hand over the team to him.

Zeitgeister · Post #90 » by **Zeitgeister** » Wed Dec 9, 2015 4:18 pm

With respect, Rubio has only played 36 games in the past 2 seasons. Wiggins mostly relied on the brilliant passing of Zach Lavine and Kevin Martin.

ZeppelinPage · Post #91 » by **ZeppelinPage** » Wed Dec 9, 2015 9:19 pm

Giannis just has a big problem with fouling and consistency. The fact that he leads the league in fouls really hurts his ability to stay focused and keep his play up cause if he has 2 fouls in the 1st he's out till the 3rd quarter where he has 6 points at that point.

Keep in mind McGrady averaged 15 PPG on 13 FGA in his 3rd year and exploded in his 4th. I think with his high efficiency once he's matured a bit he'll easily be able to score 20 along with being a fantastic defender.

H2tObes · Post #92 » by **H2tObes** » Wed Dec 9, 2015 9:57 pm

Giannis is able to get a lot of his points with ease, he makes extremely difficult plays look effortless. He is quietly an 85% free throw shooter as well. These two facts pretty much guarantee him to be a good scorer.

16 points at 58% TS is already damn good, I don't see the concern considering he is still pretty raw

AussieBuck · Post #93 » by **AussieBuck** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:58 am

With a bunch of Bucks guards injured and Kidd sidelined we've seen Giannis get some burn at PG while defending at PF the last two games. He's put up 29/10/5 and 19/10/6 in a win over the Bulls and a close away loss to the Wizards. He played superstar ball in the first game and was impressive again today despite a couple of terrible offensive foul calls. Pretty cool watching the longest guy on the team playmaking.

HeartBreakKid · Post #94 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Sat Mar 5, 2016 3:43 pm

Giannis is clearly superior to Wiggins this season (and the gap is going to most likely get even larger because of how Giannis is playing now).

Is Wiggins still the superior prospect, say 5 years down the line?

Post #95 » by **Prez** » Sat Mar 5, 2016 4:05 pm

Giannis since being handed the reins to the team since about the AS break is showing talent that even I as a massive Giannis homer wasn't expecting. He's no longer just a complementary player type of talent. He's starting to look like he can legitimately be a centerpiece down the road. He's been putting up about 19/11/9 since being given the PG role and was 1 rebound away from 3 triple doubles in the past 6 games, I can't even imagine what those numbers will look like as the jumper comes around.

Zeitgeister · Post #96 » by **Zeitgeister** » Sat Mar 5, 2016 4:54 pm

Giannis is quite a bit better right now. Wiggins has been pretty disappointing to me this year.

Post #97 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Mar 5, 2016 5:03 pm

Yeah, at this point in the season and in their respective stages of development, it's clearly Giannis ahead of Wiggins as an overall player. He has the luxury of being a lower-volume scorer, but he does show a number of more-developed scoring skills as well and he's scaling well post-break... though it does bear mention that he's a third-year player and Wiggins is an NBA sophomore. Still, hedging aside, GA does look like he's leaping well ahead in terms of total value.

Leslie Forman · Post #98 » by **Leslie Forman** » Sat Mar 5, 2016 5:19 pm

I just don't care for Wiggins's motor or IQ. It looked poor at Kansas and it hasn't gotten any better in the pros. Forget Giannis, Jabari Parker looks like the better player right now.

Dr Positivity · Post #99 » by **Dr Positivity** » Sun Mar 6, 2016 11:39 pm

Yeah this looks like Giannis right now. The lurking Rudy Gay-ness to Wiggins on court personality is getting worrisome. Might take all 3 of the Bucks guns in Giannis, Middleton, and Parker before him

AceofSpades69 · Post #100 » by **AceofSpades69** » Mon Mar 7, 2016 12:23 am

26/10/12 today. He's starting to consistently put up some Grant Hillish numbers on the boards.
How old is he again? What an animal.

Wiggins isn't even in the same league in terms of potential. Many guys come in the NBA with the scoring ability AW has shown so far but to come with the all-around package of Giannis at such a young age happens once in a decade. Wiggins will be just another Kevin Martin.