Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition]

[eminence]

Ben Wallace was, arguably, the best player on an NBA champion that beat prime Shaq and Kobe. Ben Wallace is significantly inferior to Bill Russell in virtually every possible category except strength (and relative to his peers, most likely in strength). Russell is a better help defender, man defender, shot blocker, rebounder, shooter, passer, has a higher basketball IQ, and was a better leader. And I love the Fro . . . and yet, somehow Russell can't lead a team to a title today because, well, he doesn't score a lot of points.

There is more to the game than scoring.

Bill Russel is obviously better than Ben Wallace and could be the best player on a title team, but a couple opinions on your thoughts here. Ben Wallace is "significantly inferior" to no one on defense, not even the mighty Bill Russell. And I can't say as I'm particularly impressed that they beat those Lakers, Kobe played poorly, Shaq was good, but the cast was pretty terrible, those Lakers were one Sam Cassell balls dance from not making the finals.

[penbeast0]

You feel Wallace was equal to Russell as a help defender or as a man defender?

[mtlraps]

- Dwyane Wade is a borderline top 10 player and the 2nd best SG of all time.

- Team accomplishments hold little to no weight when comparing individual player.

[mdonnelly1989]

#1. Steve Nash isn't a Top 5 PG of All Time. Because well I believe Defense although isn't as important. Steve Nash's offensive impact isn't impactful enough for 5 other PG's when you include defense.

#2. Oscar Robertson would beat Kobe in a 1-1 game of basketball.

#3. Lebron would beat MJ in 1-1. (Not because of skill, because of size.)

[Jim Naismith]

2009 LeBron James is not a top-3 peak.

LeBron bears some blame for the Cavaliers' playoff loss to Orlando, including poor play in the final elimination game.

[RightToCensor]

Charles Barkley wouldn't be a Top 10 player in today's league because of the rule changes for post players, for help defenders, and the frequency of the three point shot.

[Clyde Frazier]

Charles Barkley wouldn't be a Top 10 player in today's league because of the rule changes for post players, for help defenders, and the frequency of the three point shot.

...You really think this guy wouldn't thrive in today's NBA?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKmpQyo9muU[/youtube]

His combo of strength, speed and agility isn't getting hindered that much by rule changes. When you're as good of a finisher in the paint as he was, a 3PT shot for a PF isn't a necessity. And he was too talented to not be able to adapt later in his career if necessary.

[mischievous]

I think Chris Paul is a tad overrated. I get that he has nice numbers, and he clearly does have a lot of impact on the baskletball court, but for whatever reason he's immune to advancing far in the playoffs, whether it's injuries, teammates, or his own underperformance it just doesn't happen. I noticed he's loved around here, so most are quick to come to his defense and discredit the CLippers's supoporting cast. Like having a top 10 player in Grffin, an all star caliber center in DJ, JJ Reddick etc isn't a good cast? I get that their bench isn't good but they aren't the first team to have a bad bench. Their starting lineup is fire. I'm not saying Paul should've won a ring, but i think it's abundantly clear he should've had more postsesaon success in his career than he has. There will be excuses in advance in case he has another early exit.

Paul is one of the Greats, but regardless of what his longevity ends up looking like i can't put him with or ahead of guys like Barkley, Moses, Dirk, Drob, Wade etc.

[RightToCensor]

Charles Barkley wouldn't be a Top 10 player in today's league because of the rule changes for post players, for help defenders, and the frequency of the three point shot.

...You really think this guy wouldn't thrive in today's NBA?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKmpQyo9muU[/youtube]

His combo of strength, speed and agility isn't getting hindered that much by rule changes. When you're as good of a finisher in the paint as he was, a 3PT shot for a PF isn't a necessity. And he was too talented to not be able to adapt later in his career if necessary.

I'm not taking anything away from his strength, speed, and agility in the full-court. He'd easily be a one of the top player in the league in terms of scoring on the break. What I'm having my doubts about is Barkley in the half court. With how much more intense defensive schemes have been evolving in the decades with matchups and rotations, I'm not as much of a believer that Barkley would be as effective in the 10s as he was in the 90s.

[bondom34]

- Still the likes of Haslem, Chalmers, Battier, Mike Miller and Joel Anthony. That's straight up garbage.

What?

Battier was a solid role player for Miami in 12 and most of 2013. Chalmers was a pretty good role player in 2012 as well. Both of them especially played well in the playoffs. He stayed in his lane and played his part to perfection. Battier's defense was key for Miami and Wade, LeBron, Battier, Bosh anchored that D beautifully despite not having a center or a rim protector.

Edit: I remember Bondom saying he still has nightmares of Battier from those Finals .

BOOOOO!

Trying to think of mine, a few quickish ones on current players (honestly don't think I have much for 80s/90s players):

1. I do think there's a time and place for an iso heavy offense. Some guys are just good at it, and sometimes there is no better option. Saw it with Iverson, saw it with Westbrook this year and Durant last year. Saw it some with Lebron in the playoffs. It may not always work, but it usually comes from necessity.

2. Draymond Green, just the whole debate.

3. I still think Kyrie is a little overrated. He's a tossup with Lillard to me at best, and honestly right now I still take Dame.

[Lost92Bricks]

I think Chris Paul is a tad overrated. I get that he has nice numbers, and he clearly does have a lot of impact on the baskletball court, but for whatever reason he's immune to advancing far in the playoffs, whether it's injuries, teammates, or his own underperformance it just doesn't happen. I noticed he's loved around here, so most are quick to come to his defense and discredit the CLippers's supoporting cast. Like having a top 10 player in Grffin, an all star caliber center in DJ, JJ Reddick etc isn't a good cast? I get that their bench isn't good but they aren't the first team to have a bad bench. Their starting lineup is fire. I'm not saying Paul should've won a ring, but i think it's abundantly clear he should've had more postsesaon success in his career than he has. There will be excuses in advance in case he has another early exit.

Paul is one of the Greats, but regardless of what his longevity ends up looking like i can't put him with or ahead of guys like Barkley, Moses, Dirk, Drob, Wade etc.

Oscar Robertson who is considered a top 15 player of all time only won 2 playoff series in his first 10 seasons. He was even more "immune to advancing far in the playoffs" than CP3 yet he's normally ranked over the players you mentioned.

And who says Paul doesn't have a good supporting cast? The problem is when you play your entire prime in the toughest conference in league history you need more than a good team to get to the finals or to be a serious threat to win it all.

If you play in 11 series and ALL of them are against teams with more than 51 wins you're gonna need your bench to at least give you something, you're gonna need your teammates to get stops on defense. These are not "excuses", it's being realistic.

[UN-Owen]

A healthy Grant Hill is on par with Julius Erving


I've looked at the stats and I don't see much difference between them at the NBA level

[Freighttrain]

previous generations are perceived as greater talent pools but I think if you put them with today's generation, most of them would be good solid players, but not superstars.

[E-Balla]

Here's one: Lebron fans are just as annoying as Kobe fans were 5 years ago.

[Joao Saraiva]

2009 LeBron James is not a top-3 peak.

LeBron bears some blame for the Cavaliers' playoff loss to Orlando, including poor play in the final elimination game.

LeBron G6:
25/7/7 on 50.3ts%

Not a great game, but after what he did for the entire series it's normal to have a subpar game. I'd love to know if you blame Kobe Bryant on every loss the Lakers ever had because I'm pretty sure I can find one game from Kobe worse in any series he lost than that game from LeBron.

I would also ask what other kind of thing is there to blame LeBron, but I probably shouldn't.

[Joao Saraiva]

Here's one: Lebron fans are just as annoying as Kobe fans were 5 years ago.

Here is one: Knicks are even worse than they were 5 years ago. And we thought that wouldn't be possible...

[Magic Boo]

1. Spurs would have beat the Warriors had they got past Clippers last year.

2. Kawhi is a top 5 impact player in the league

3. Wade without all those injuries would be neck and neck with Lebron and greater than Kobe.

4. Hakeem Olajuwon is the best basketball player at the C position all time.

[sp6r=underrated]

- Playoffs are generally overvalued.
- 1995 Rockets are the worse title team since 1980 and had massive structural flaws. There playoff run to me is no different than that massive Hawks winning streak: a bunch of guys playing over their heads for a month and a half.
- 2009 and 2010 Magic were legitimate title contenders and are underappreciated because of Howard's behavior the last few years along with people reading too much into the 2010 ECF.
- Magic Johnson's peak was lower than KG and TD.
- The two best Spurs title teams (05 and 14) were as good or better than the best Showtime title team.
- Hakeem is closer to being out of the top 10 than a legitimate GOAT level player.
- RAPM is overvalued.
- Playoff on/off is of negligible value.

[eminence]

You feel Wallace was equal to Russell as a help defender or as a man defender?

No, but not equal =/= significantly inferior. Your original statement was hyperbolic, there is a gap between the two, but it is not large (defensively).

[sp6r=underrated]

LOL.

The dude was straight garbage in '12, what are you talking about? A spot up shooter exclusively averaging 5 ppg on 54%TS. Zero playmaking ability, just stood in the corner and waited for the ball whole game and wasn't particularly efficient with his shots most of the time. You get way better role players on every playoff team. Battier was garbage most of the time in Miami. He was also old and frequently matched with guys twice his size because Miami had no adequate Big men on their roster. I can applaud his hustle and sometimes he was clutch, no denying that, but on average he was more garbage than not. He's just accumulated this good aura around him over his career from always being positive, a hard worker, playing for Duke, being a respectable role player in his prime, JVG constantly on his nuts etc...

Battier was far from any 'key' in Miami's defense. Actually, easily Miami's best defensive year was before Battier even joined the team. Come on, the dude was 35 years old and had to guard guys like David West who bullied him and was too slow to keep up with LeBron, Wade perimeter switching. You have to do better than this...

Chalmers was never something to write home about, he did muster a couple solid games here in there but was a bottom tier starting PG in comparison to what other NBA teams had. When your role is threatened by a rookie Norris Cole you know you're garbage. And finally, he has a track record of under-performing in the postseason. During LeBron's tenure in Miami, Chalmers averaged 9 ppg on 54%TS and wasn't particularly stunning as a playmaker or some impressive defensive player, he was actually quite boneheaded in the literal sense. Yes, his '12 campaign was by far his best year but still 11 ppg in 36 mpg in the playoffs, 55%TS doesn't equate to ''pretty good'' in my book.

This is some serious revisionist history on your part. What your agenda is behind that is anyone's guess

His agenda isn't any harder to guess than Jordan23Forever who used to routinely attack MJ's teammates.