The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1)

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Curry is doing this without good foot speed. Curry is faster than Nash ever was but he is not fast for a point guard. Can you imagine what Curry could do if he had Iverson quickness?

Curry has 7 steals in 3 games and that is without gambling. Curry's basketball mind has off the charts ability to read everything correctly, react quickly and be supremely creative.

Curry takes risks playmaking and that used to result in turnovers but this year every fancy dribble and pass just works and there are almost no turnovers. 5 turnovers in 3 games.

If you want to follow the Doc Rivers formula and send 3 1/2 guys at Curry and the pick setter then you are faced with an extremely good passing Warriors team and whoever Curry passes to can quickly pass to the open man.

[Jedi32]

Best player in the game imo.

[bballexpert]

Curry the best pg since Magic i can not believe some people try to put Paul as good as Curry. I think this year Curry going to put up 30 and i am not sure if he wins the ring but mvp he will get playing like that no one really going to touch him.

[Johnny Firpo]

I feel like I'm watching the best offensive player the game has ever seen. Am I crazy for thinking that?

A little bit, yeah. MJ in the early 90's was comfortably better than any previous version of the Chef so far, including last season. Now whether he can get to another level or not, we'll have to wait and see, but yeah, at this point in time he has no argument over Jordan, even if it's just about their offense.

[Johnny Firpo]

Curry the best pg since Magic i can not believe some people try to put Paul as good as Curry. I think this year Curry going to put up 30 and i am not sure if he wins the ring but mvp he will get playing like that no one really going to touch him.

Curry's scoring and shooting make us say things like that. Heck, I do it, the guy is mesmerizing. Peak Paul still has a solid argument, you just simply have to look past scoring and shooting as the sole indicator of greatness, as tough as it is sometimes. We love scorers and shooters to a point where we start to ignore everything else that can make a player impactful. I'm not saying Curry isn't good in those areas, just that his absolutely electrifying scoring and shooting ability makes it tough for us to be objective.

[Johnny Firpo]

Best player in the game imo.

I tend to agree, Lebron had an average season by his standards and Durant was injured, I feel you have to give it to Curry at this point.

[Dr Spaceman]

I feel like I'm watching the best offensive player the game has ever seen. Am I crazy for thinking that?

Not crazy at all. Welcome to the club, in fact

[Dr Spaceman]

I feel like I'm watching the best offensive player the game has ever seen. Am I crazy for thinking that?

A little bit, yeah. MJ in the early 90's was comfortably better than any previous version of the Chef so far, including last season. Now whether he can get to another level or not, we'll have to wait and see, but yeah, at this point in time he has no argument over Jordan, even if it's just about their offense.

"No atgument"? That's a little silly, and especially so considering you accused others of focusing only on scoring below. Curry draws two defenders out of the pick and roll behind the arc; he warps defenses far worse than any player has ever accomplished, with the possible exception of Shaq. The disgusting thing is even when presented with a situation like Cleveland in the Finals, who were literally trying to trap him with 3 guys 30 feet for the he hoop at times, Curry can still go for 30 on 60+TS%. The Curry we're seeing now could quite clearly lead the league in scoring if it were a goal. Jordan scored more, on worse efficiency, and there's no meaningful disparity in playmaking.

Let's also be totally clear: Jordan's teams were dominant offensively because of his scoring talent and the fact they were consistently GOAT at offensive rebounding. Curry's team performs at around the same level relative to the league, and does so by being brutally efficient at putting the ball in the basket despite not really having good scoring talent outside Klay, who was atrocious in the playoffs. There's really no angle you can attack this from where there would be "no argument" for Curry.

[Johnny Firpo]

"No atgument"? That's a little silly, and especially so considering you accused others of focusing only on scoring below. Curry draws two defenders out of the pick and roll behind the arc; he warps defenses far worse than any player has ever accomplished, with the possible exception of Shaq. The disgusting thing is even when presented with a situation like Cleveland in the Finals, who were literally trying to trap him with 3 guys 30 feet for the he hoop at times, Curry can still go for 30 on 60+TS%. The Curry we're seeing now could quite clearly lead the league in scoring if it were a goal. Jordan scored more, on worse efficiency, and there's no meaningful disparity in playmaking.

Let's also be totally clear: Jordan's teams were dominant offensively because of his scoring talent and the fact they were consistently GOAT at offensive rebounding. Curry's team performs at around the same level relative to the league, and does so by being brutally efficient at putting the ball in the basket despite not really having good scoring talent outside Klay, who was atrocious in the playoffs. There's really no angle you can attack this from where there would be "no argument" for Curry.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't really care about small sample sizes like a final series. If I would, that would obviously not be advantageous for Curry in this comparison. I compare full seasons, the more seasons, the better. Curry's last season does not stack up offensively to MJ's two or three best seasons, in my opinion, and there is good evidence for that in the advanced stats.

[tsherkin]

Curry's last season does not stack up offensively to MJ's two or three best seasons, in my opinion, and there is good evidence for that in the advanced stats.

Could be.

15 SC: 23.8 ppg, 7.3 apg, 48.7% FG, 44.3% on 8.1 3PA/g, 91.4% FT (led the league), 122 ORTG, 63.8% TS, .288 WS/48 (league-high), +9.6 OBPM (league-high), +7.9 VORP (league-high)


Jordan has 7 seasons from 121-125 ORTG. He has 3 seasons of +9.0 or better OBPM (peaking at +9.8 in 88 and 89), and 9 seasons with +8.1 VORP or better, including 3 in a row from 10.1 to 12.0. He had four seasons better than Curry's .288 WS/48 (88,89, 91 and 96).

I think it's fair to say that the top couple of seasons from MJ, top 3-4 even, outstrip what Curry did last year.

However, that this is even a semi-reasonable discussion sort of sets context for what kind of year he had, really. It's pretty clear that MJ's OFFENSE alone was enough to stand him ahead of Curry at least a handful of times, and his defensive value pushed that even further, since he was obviously a higher-impact defensive player than Steph.

That said, again, we're now talking about the general-consensus GOAT, and having a semi-reasonable discussion about where Steph's MVP season ranks relative to that player. He has now arrived, and he has done so in monumentally successful fashion.

[mischievous]

So now Curry is the GOAT offensive player because of 3 great games this season? Talk about getting caught up in the moment. Let's wait and see not only how this whole season goes, but also what he does in the next 3-4 years as he caps off his prime. It's hard for me to take just 3 games and evaluate his offense for the season.

[tsherkin]

So now Curry is the GOAT offensive player because of 3 great games this season? Talk about getting caught up in the moment. Let's wait and see not only how this whole season goes, but also what he does in the next 3-4 years as he caps off his prime. It's hard for me to take just 3 games and evaluate his offense for the season.

This response isn't really much more valuable than the analysis against which you're railing. We do have the previous seasons in his career, including the MVP season he just finished authoring that ended with a ring like 5 months ago. The excitement is natural, most especially since he's picking up exactly where he left off.

[The-Power]

There is currently a great project going on on GSOM by the user @Apricot. It is meant to unveil the playbook of the Warriors step-by-step, so far using one characteristic play with detailed analysis. If anyone is interested analyzing plays and basketball offenses, I highly recommend to have a look at it. Great read and highly informative because you're going to notice things your eye doesn't catch in real-time.

But enough with the introduction, I'll just leave the first links here, so you can see it yourself.

"Spurs Play + Curry = Bogut Dunk"
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2015/10/29/9633006/one-warriors-play-spurs-play-curry-bout-dunk-pelicans-warriors

"Two Spurs Recipes + Stephen Curry = Klay Thompson three"
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2015/10/31/9649486/warriors-vs-rockets-video-analysis-stephen-curry-klay-thompson

"Stephen Curry's absurd no-look backwards pass to Harrison Barnes in New Orleans"
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2015/11/1/9653400/warriors-vs-pelicans-highlight-stephen-curry-pass-harrison-Barnes-dunk-2015

I figured that it makes the most sense to post it here since a) the right audience for it should be here, b) Curry is obviously vital to basically every play out of the playbook while on the court in one way or another and c) because, like the thread for LeBron, this thread could also be used to talk about the Warriors in general. Have fun guys!

[bballexpert]

Curry the best pg since Magic i can not believe some people try to put Paul as good as Curry. I think this year Curry going to put up 30 and i am not sure if he wins the ring but mvp he will get playing like that no one really going to touch him.

Curry's scoring and shooting make us say things like that. Heck, I do it, the guy is mesmerizing. Peak Paul still has a solid argument, you just simply have to look past scoring and shooting as the sole indicator of greatness, as tough as it is sometimes. We love scorers and shooters to a point where we start to ignore everything else that can make a player impactful. I'm not saying Curry isn't good in those areas, just that his absolutely electrifying scoring and shooting ability makes it tough for us to be objective.

Well Paul is better passer kinda and he plays defense better but a 5'11'' guard defense really does not have huge impact. Curry shooting and scoring out way anything Chris can do to effect games Curry just has a lot more impact on the game.

[tsherkin]

There is currently a great project going on on GSOM by the user @Apricot. It is meant to unveil the playbook of the Warriors step-by-step, so far using one characteristic play with detailed analysis. If anyone is interested analyzing plays and basketball offenses, I highly recommend to have a look at it. Great read and highly informative because you're going to notice things your eye doesn't catch in real-time.

But enough with the introduction, I'll just leave the first links here, so you can see it yourself.

"Spurs Play + Curry = Bogut Dunk"
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2015/10/29/9633006/one-warriors-play-spurs-play-curry-bout-dunk-pelicans-warriors

"Two Spurs Recipes + Stephen Curry = Klay Thompson three"
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2015/10/31/9649486/warriors-vs-rockets-video-analysis-stephen-curry-klay-thompson

"Stephen Curry's absurd no-look backwards pass to Harrison Barnes in New Orleans"
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2015/11/1/9653400/warriors-vs-pelicans-highlight-stephen-curry-pass-harrison-Barnes-dunk-2015

I figured that it makes the most sense to post it here since a) the right audience for it should be here, b) Curry is obviously vital to basically every play out of the playbook while on the court in one way or another and c) because, like the thread for LeBron, this thread could also be used to talk about the Warriors in general. Have fun guys!

Excellent links, those. Thanks!

[giordunk]

Curry is better than 2008 Chris Paul right?

If he sustains this level of success or gets even better he has a legitimate case to be 3rd all time among point guards right?

[SideshowBob]

There is currently a great project going on on GSOM by the user @Apricot. It is meant to unveil the playbook of the Warriors step-by-step, so far using one characteristic play with detailed analysis. If anyone is interested analyzing plays and basketball offenses, I highly recommend to have a look at it. Great read and highly informative because you're going to notice things your eye doesn't catch in real-time.

But enough with the introduction, I'll just leave the first links here, so you can see it yourself.

"Spurs Play + Curry = Bogut Dunk"
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2015/10/29/9633006/one-warriors-play-spurs-play-curry-bout-dunk-pelicans-warriors

"Two Spurs Recipes + Stephen Curry = Klay Thompson three"
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2015/10/31/9649486/warriors-vs-rockets-video-analysis-stephen-curry-klay-thompson

"Stephen Curry's absurd no-look backwards pass to Harrison Barnes in New Orleans"
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2015/11/1/9653400/warriors-vs-pelicans-highlight-stephen-curry-pass-harrison-Barnes-dunk-2015

I figured that it makes the most sense to post it here since a) the right audience for it should be here, b) Curry is obviously vital to basically every play out of the playbook while on the court in one way or another and c) because, like the thread for LeBron, this thread could also be used to talk about the Warriors in general. Have fun guys!

Awesome stuff.

[Johnny Firpo]

Well Paul is better passer kinda and he plays defense better but a 5'11'' guard defense really does not have huge impact. Curry shooting and scoring out way anything Chris can do to effect games Curry just has a lot more impact on the game.

I'm not sure about the bolded part. How do we prove this? Peak Paul had a 10 VORP and a 124 offensive rating during his best year, where he quite frankly should have won the MVP. I'm not sure that 2014-2015 Curry was better than that, and he probably wasn't. Could 2015-2016 Curry surpass that level? Well, absolutely, but we have to tap the breaks, and I'm saying this as an admirer of the guy. He is amazing, but we need to have some perspective and not get caught on the tiny sample size. Let's compare 08/09 Paul to 14/15 Curry, and tell me that Curry is superior.

[Johnny Firpo]

Curry is better than 2008 Chris Paul right?

If he sustains this level of success or gets even better he has a legitimate case to be 3rd all time among point guards right?

I'm not sure yet (regarding peak Paul), and yes, absolutely. He plays on an amazing team seemingly tailor-made for his unique abilities. I cannot imagine them not winning at least one more with this core. They are elite on both ends, and those teams usually end up as dynasties.

[HeartBreakKid]

Curry is doing this without good foot speed. Curry is faster than Nash ever was but he is not fast for a point guard. Can you imagine what Curry could do if he had Iverson quickness?

Curry has 7 steals in 3 games and that is without gambling. Curry's basketball mind has off the charts ability to read everything correctly, react quickly and be supremely creative.

Curry takes risks playmaking and that used to result in turnovers but this year every fancy dribble and pass just works and there are almost no turnovers. 5 turnovers in 3 games.

If you want to follow the Doc Rivers formula and send 3 1/2 guys at Curry and the pick setter then you are faced with an extremely good passing Warriors team and whoever Curry passes to can quickly pass to the open man.

I dont think Curry is actually faster than Nash, I'm almost positive he isn't.