Andrew Wiggins ceiling

[tsherkin]

He was a star, he was just underrated because he spent most of his best years on mediocre/bad Sixers teams.

Sure, he was a peak-play All-Star, absolutely. Not a focal offensive player, but a marvelous defender, a pretty well-rounded guy. His big sin was that he wasn't a hot scorer when things slowed down and had a troubled shot. That's all. Very good player, just not a franchise cornerstone.

I certainly do, too. I agree with Milbuck that Wiggins and Iguodala are totally different players, though.

Not even remotely similar, yeah. Iggy had way more value as a defender and playmaker than we're like to ever see from Wiggins, though Andrew is already looking like he'll overtake Iguodala's peak scoring and is jut in his third season.

I think Wiggins' ceiling is clearly higher than Iguodala's.

Oh? Given that his entire focus is going to be scoring, pretty clearly, you think he'll post a higher ceiling than Iggy? How good a scorer does Wiggins have to become in order for that to be true to you? It's an interesting thought, because it's an age-old debate.

[Ron Swanson]

Man, Wiggins' ability to draw fouls is just phenomenal, for his age it's once-in-a-generation type of ability in this regard. I know the Lakers are not a great team, but you can't tell me that a guy who puts up 47 points with 20+ FTA against ANYBODY at age 21, doesn't have superstar ceiling. His all-around game is very much work-in-progress, but he's already a special scorer.

I'm not necessarily saying that he doesn't have superstar upside (I still would have picked him #1), but as a Bucks fan, I once saw Brandon Jennings score 55 points in a game as a 20 year old. I think Wiggins certainly has way higher potential, but the argument is that he's going to need to be able to do something, anything really, at an elite or above-average level other than scoring to ever be considered a star. The difference between an All-Star and Superstar player is as incredibly vast as the difference between Kevin Martin and Kobe Bryant.

There's a laundry list of non-star players who have averaged 20 PPG on non-elite efficiency, and an even more forgettable list of guys who have achieved the 45+ point-game milestone (Jennings, Terrence Ross, Corey Brewer, all in the last 3 years). We'll see which end of the spectrum Wiggins falls on.

[juju14]

The thing about Wiggins is. Everything he has Focused specifically in the offseason he has done better. He work on post moves first year, spacing 2nd to get off shot, and 3s last summer. All those years those specfic things seems better. He only 21.

[tsherkin]

The thing about Wiggins is. Everything he has Focused specifically in the offseason he has done better. He work on post moves first year, spacing 2nd to get off shot, and 3s last summer. All those years those specfic things seems better. He only 21.

He certainly has upside as a scorer and has shown the ability to improve at least a little each year. We'll see how the rest of the year plays out. There are certain archetypes of consequence. He seems to be moving in the direction of the 80s SFs, with maybe a little less playmaking.

[wallsfamily]

The league is in good hands those two teams can be western conference finalists in 19. Lakers and Wolves. Patience and coaching will make the difference. Upside is all star.

[steveshikadance]

Wiggins has a higher ceiling than Melo, and a lot of ppl think Melo is a superstar. Wiggins showing to be a better all around offensive talent than Melo was at 21.

[tsherkin]

Wiggins showing to be a better all around offensive talent than Melo was at 21.

That certainly isn't true. Melo at 21 could actually shoot consistently, and was a 26.5 ppg scorer on 56.3% TS. Wiggins has done nothing to prove that he has anything like the variety of moves and sets Melo used even then to score, let alone the raw quality of his jumper. This is a dreadfully inaccurate statement.

[Colbinii]

Wiggins has a higher ceiling than Melo, and a lot of ppl think Melo is a superstar. Wiggins showing to be a better all around offensive talent than Melo was at 21.

Let's start at what they did at age 19. Carmelo Anthony was a much better college player than Andrew Wiggins. At age 21, Carmelo Anthony made a gigantic leap from 20.8 PPG on 52.6 TS% at age 20 to 26.5 PPG on 56.3 TS% at age 21. On a small sample, Wiggins is currently averaging 26.3 PPG on 58.5 TS%.

Melo was a better rebounder and passer than Wiggins at this age, so I don't know how you can conclude that Wiggins is a better all-around talent.

[TheZachAttack]

The thing about Wiggins is. Everything he has Focused specifically in the offseason he has done better. He work on post moves first year, spacing 2nd to get off shot, and 3s last summer. All those years those specfic things seems better. He only 21.

Listened to that Hanlen interview eh??

[totallystoked]

A young melo was a more talented and skilled player at 21 than Wiggins for sure.

Wiggins however has a higher athletic ceiling. This kid can absolutely jump through the roof. He'll be a multi year all star at minimum and I can see him being a multiple time pick all nba as well; perhaps not a first teamer, but perhaps third team.

The danger is that Wiggins rely too heavily, almost exclusively on his athletic talent rather than working on his all round game.

Wiggins doesn't have a ceiling if he dedicates himself 100%. If he coasts, he'll be a great scorer at worst.

[Kabookalu]

The thing about Wiggins is. Everything he has Focused specifically in the offseason he has done better. He work on post moves first year, spacing 2nd to get off shot, and 3s last summer. All those years those specfic things seems better. He only 21.

I remember when his work ethic was being questioned. One of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

[HeartBreakKid]

Wiggins has a higher ceiling than Melo, and a lot of ppl think Melo is a superstar. Wiggins showing to be a better all around offensive talent than Melo was at 21.

You sure? Carmelo was a better rookie and sophomore, and he put up the same numbers Wiggins is now as a 21 year old but on a much greater sample size.


And let's be real, melo gets named dropped with the other big guys in the NBA, but a lot of fans know he's not a superstar.

[tsherkin]

Wiggins however has a higher athletic ceiling. This kid can absolutely jump through the roof.

Is his athletic ceiling that much higher? He doesn't look a lot quicker, which is far more important an athletic trait for a wing than vertical leaping. Melo is also considerably stronger. I'm not sure I see superior athleticism in Wiggins, leaping ability aside. He's lighter and he seems a better one-footed jumper, sure, but that goes only so far. A lot of his best scoring sets aren't extending out of leaping ability of serious consequence at all, but rather floor game.

[Ron Swanson]

Melo has/had one of the quickest first steps ever for a guy his size. People are really underestimating how explosive he was. Wiggins definitely has him beat in vertical athleticism, but he's no where near as quick off the dribble as young Melo was. His vertical athleticism has also yet to translate into rebounds and blocks, which is really weird unless he just doesn't give any effort on the defensive glass.

[juju14]

The thing about Wiggins is. Everything he has Focused specifically in the offseason he has done better. He work on post moves first year, spacing 2nd to get off shot, and 3s last summer. All those years those specfic things seems better. He only 21.

Listened to that Hanlen interview eh??

No, do you have link to it

[juju14]

The thing about Wiggins is. Everything he has Focused specifically in the offseason he has done better. He work on post moves first year, spacing 2nd to get off shot, and 3s last summer. All those years those specfic things seems better. He only 21.

Listened to that Hanlen interview eh??

No do you have link to interview

[Woodsanity]

He is an incredibly talented scorer but he needs to prove that he can at be at least decent-good at other aspects of the game. Cause right now he isn't at all. Not a good passer, rebounder, putrid defender. He is still young so I hope he improves on those aspects but until then his ceiling is mid level All star at best maybe an all nba 3rd team caliber player.

[TheZachAttack]

The thing about Wiggins is. Everything he has Focused specifically in the offseason he has done better. He work on post moves first year, spacing 2nd to get off shot, and 3s last summer. All those years those specfic things seems better. He only 21.

Listened to that Hanlen interview eh??

No do you have link to interview

I can try to find it! It might be in this thread somewhere...someone linked it! It's really good! But Hanlen basically talks about your analysis and says that was there strategy so you it seems like you've got an elite basketball mind

[TheZachAttack]

Are we sure that Melo and Wiggins are really that far apart at all as scorers in their age 20 and 21 seasons? They seem at minimum comparable if not arguable either way...

First, looking at Wiggins' present stats is a disingenuous approach at the moment, given the sample. So let's set that aside.

That said, yes, Melo settled down and rediscovered his jumper in his third season, at age 21, and that really helped open things up for him. Wiggins might well be learning how to shoot for the first time in his career, and that will make a difference over the balance of the season, absolutely. Not to the extent we've seen so far, but it will.

It remains true that it's still too early to compare full seasons to what Wiggins has played to this point. He's still not shooting reasonable, sustainable percentages, and that is affecting everything about his performance to date. You cannot project ceiling off of an unsustainable level of performance.

[TheZachAttack]

He is an incredibly talented scorer but he needs to prove that he can at be at least decent-good at other aspects of the game. Cause right now he isn't at all. Not a good passer, rebounder, putrid defender. He is still young so I hope he improves on those aspects but until then his ceiling is mid level All star at best maybe an all nba 3rd team caliber player.

That's his CEILING? I think you mean floor.