Better defender: Michael Jordan vs Tim Duncan

[NY 567]

Easily Tim Duncan

[penbeast0]

Duncan is MORE IMPACTFUL. That is different from the word 'BETTER'.

Relative to position, Jordan trumps all. That's why he's proclaimed as the GOAT.

I wouldn't take Jordan as the best defensive 2 guard though he's in my top 10. He just wasn't consistent enough. If he was motivated or angry or it was a game 7 4th quarter, then he has a shot at being the GOAT defender at the 2. But if it was Tuesday night in Minneapolis defending Trenton Hassell, he wasn't that consistent. Someone like Sidney Moncrief or Tony Allen was just much more consistently relentless on that end and desire is such a large part of defense, especially wing defense.

Same goes when comparing Duncan to other bigs v. Jordan to other wings. Duncan was just more consistently focused on the defensive end though Jordan at his fully motivated peak was possibly the GOAT wing defender where Duncan didn't have that extra gear to make him the equal of a Russell/Hakeem/DRob type at their best.

[TheGOATRises007]

So 10 votes for Jordan with argument being that he's better relative to position... sorry, but it's not good argument. Can anybody else give me good reason to reconsider my choice?

There really isn't.

Duncan's defense had more of an impact. Big men's defenses will always have more impact.

[greatdefender20]

This is a joke of a thread. Tim Duncan is a top 10 defender of all time, MJ is maybe top 10 for guards.

[Clyde Frazier]

Duncan is MORE IMPACTFUL. That is different from the word 'BETTER'.

Relative to position, Jordan trumps all. That's why he's proclaimed as the GOAT.

I disagree. Considering defense is much harder to tangibly measure than offense, impact is pretty synonymous with ability.

[Brooklyn_Ball33]

Jordan is not any better of a defender than Tony Allen, Sidney Moncrief or Andre Iguodalla -

People are seriously deluding themselves if they believe this. Even if you believe that any of those guys (and I'd only say Allen fits this) is a better man-to-man defender than Jordan in his prime, none of them is even in the same UNIVERSE as Jordan as a team/help/disruptive defender. And since team/help defense are the largest components of overall defensive impact, it is absurd imo to say that any of these guys in their 5 best seasons had more overall defensive impact (or even close to it) than Jordan did. It's simply factually incorrect. Teams wouldn't even run plays on Jordan's side of the floor in his prime many times. You folks are talking nonsense here.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Jordan was the better defender for his position but Jordan's position was not as important defensively as Duncan's position so the answer is Duncan was the better defender. When Robinson was gone Duncan was the center when the game was on the line. Centers matter more especially before the 3 point shooters got so good that Centers had to come out and defend screens at the 3 point line.

When not pacing himself to save himself for offense, I think Jordan may have been the best defender ever at off guard.
Duncan wasn't the best defensive center ever. Maybe if I call Duncan a power forward he might have a claim to be the best at his position.

[HeartBreakKid]

Jordan is not any better of a defender than Tony Allen, Sidney Moncrief or Andre Iguodalla -

People are seriously deluding themselves if they believe this. Even if you believe that any of those guys (and I'd only say Allen fits this) is a better man-to-man defender than Jordan in his prime, none of them is even in the same UNIVERSE as Jordan as a team/help/disruptive defender. And since team/help defense are the largest components of overall defensive impact, it is absurd imo to say that any of these guys in their 5 best seasons had more overall defensive impact (or even close to it) than Jordan did. It's simply factually incorrect. Teams wouldn't even run plays on Jordan's side of the floor in his prime many times. You folks are talking nonsense here.

Andre Iguodalla even way past his prime is a help defensive force...probably the most consistent player on an all time great team. Iggy had a streak where he was destroying all-nba caliber players when he was actually in his prime. I don't think you know how good some of those defenders were in their primes if you think I am "delusional". I mean Sidney Moncrief straight up played around the same era as Michael Jordan and no one at that time would think it was crazy to say Sidney was the best defensive guard in the league.

All of those guys play help defense. Tony Allen is the best man to man defender at the 2 guard on top of that - you're making it seem like you're doing me a favor by considering he might be a better man to man defender than Jordan, if he played in an era where he could hand check guys he would murder everyone. The only reason why Tony Allen isn't the undisputed #1 defensive guard is because his minutes are low - and they're low because his offense sucks.

[OdomFan]

I have nothing but respect for Tim Duncan but I'm going with MJ here. He absolutely had opponents fearing that he'd come out of no where for a steal or block on their offense at anytime whenever they had the possession of the ball. This is a heck of a reputation for any defender in NBA history. Duncan was great at what he brought to those Spurs but MJ was just on another level during his best days.

[Odinn21]

I have nothing but respect for Tim Duncan but I'm going with MJ here. He absolutely had opponents fearing that he'd come out of no where for a steal or block on their offense at anytime whenever they had the possession of the ball. This is a heck of a reputation for any defender in NBA history. Duncan was great at what he brought to those Spurs but MJ was just on another level during his best days.

I don't think this is a proper approach. With the same logic, KG would be a better defender than TD due to his intensity. Or Shaq would be considered on this level defensively because most slashers didn't want to go up against him (voiced by Carter, McGrady, Pierce, etc).

One can argue in favour of KG or MJ against Duncan but this is not a solid reason.

[JordansBulls]

Well Jordan wasn't losing in the Olympics nor losing with HCA with the #1 seed. If Duncan's defense was that good it should have prevented that. Zach Randolph literally outplayed Duncan in a series when Duncan had HCA as the #1 seed and Zach the #8 seed. Where was Duncan's defense at that point?

[NO-KG-AI]

Tim is obviously the more impactful defender, but it honestly isn’t by enough to put him at Jordan’s level.


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[70sFan]

I have nothing but respect for Tim Duncan but I'm going with MJ here. He absolutely had opponents fearing that he'd come out of no where for a steal or block on their offense at anytime whenever they had the possession of the ball. This is a heck of a reputation for any defender in NBA history. Duncan was great at what he brought to those Spurs but MJ was just on another level during his best days.

Duncan made whole teams unwilling to go inside because of his pressence. I don't think intimidation is a good argument for Jordan.

[Antinomy]

Jordan is not any better of a defender than Tony Allen, Sidney Moncrief or Andre Iguodalla -

People are seriously deluding themselves if they believe this. Even if you believe that any of those guys (and I'd only say Allen fits this) is a better man-to-man defender than Jordan in his prime, none of them is even in the same UNIVERSE as Jordan as a team/help/disruptive defender. And since team/help defense are the largest components of overall defensive impact, it is absurd imo to say that any of these guys in their 5 best seasons had more overall defensive impact (or even close to it) than Jordan did. It's simply factually incorrect. Teams wouldn't even run plays on Jordan's side of the floor in his prime many times. You folks are talking nonsense here.

Andre Iguodalla even way past his prime is a help defensive force...probably the most consistent player on an all time great team. Iggy had a streak where he was destroying all-nba caliber players when he was actually in his prime. I don't think you know how good some of those defenders were in their primes if you think I am "delusional". I mean Sidney Moncrief straight up played around the same era as Michael Jordan and no one at that time would think it was crazy to say Sidney was the best defensive guard in the league.

All of those guys play help defense. Tony Allen is the best man to man defender at the 2 guard on top of that - you're making it seem like you're doing me a favor by considering he might be a better man to man defender than Jordan, if he played in an era where he could hand check guys he would murder everyone. The only reason why Tony Allen isn't the undisputed #1 defensive guard is because his minutes are low - and they're low because his offense sucks.

Not only what you’ve said, but guys like Iguodala, Tony Allen, etc played in the most talented perimeter era EVER.

[Ainosterhaspie]

Intimidation or lack thereof isn't all its cracked up to be. Using an analogy from the animal kingdom, the angler fish isn't intimidating, its enticing, yet the enticement spells doom. In the same way you see odd results at times where guys who aren't supposed to be great defenders, lead to guys looking to take advantage of them and the team offense getting worse.

Then you have weird stuff like Spurs defense with peak defensive Kawhi getting better without him at times. It's hard to make sense of stuff like that, but intimidation or lack thereof doesn't necessarily translate the way one might assume it would.

An intimidating shot blocker isn't always as effective as a defender with good fundamentals who is altering more shots and not compromising positioning and ability to adjust if the offensive player passes instead of shooting. It's not as impressive or intimidating on the surface if a guy stays more grounded thereby preventing three shots in three seconds instead of leaping as high as possible to meet a shot at the top of the backboard and slam it high into the stands, but it's more effective overall.

Good defense is often not flashy or intimidating. It's easy to be lured into attacking. You may not be getting blocked. You may not turning it over. You can feel like you're just having a bad day. But it's not you, it's the unassuming defender doing the job simply, but right.

This brings to mind an excellent article about Shane Battier during his time with the Rockets I read some time ago. The no stats all star. Unassuming, yet almost inexplicably, time and time again players and teams struggle when facing him.

Anyway as to the specific comparison this thread is about. Duncan is easily the better defender. And I dont care about relevant to position. That's a pointless distinction used to prop up a guy who isn't actually better. It's like saying a JV player is better than a varsity player relative to his team. So what?

[Lost92Bricks]

Duncan is better but what I wanna hear is an argument for Duncan beyond the regular assumption of big men automatically being better than perimeter players.

[Drylick]

Jordan is not arguably the GOAT because of his defensive impact...

Jordan is the best perimeter defender of all-time and the best scorer at the same time. That's why he trumps everyone relative to his position.

Not even close

You may be able to argue guard but he doesnt compare to bigger wings.

Bigger wings like? Jordan is the best perimeter defender of all-time, better than Pippen, better than LeBron, better than Kawhi. LOL.

[Drylick]

Jordan is not arguably the GOAT because of his defensive impact...

Jordan is the best perimeter defender of all-time and the best scorer at the same time. That's why he trumps everyone relative to his position.

Jordan wasn’t even the best perimeter defender on the Bulls lol

LOL who told you that? Pippen is more focused on defense but Jordan has the better defensive intangibles, fundamentals, and IQ. His defense is better than Pippen especially when he is locked in. LOL.

[Drylick]

Duncan is MORE IMPACTFUL. That is different from the word 'BETTER'.

Relative to position, Jordan trumps all. That's why he's proclaimed as the GOAT.

I disagree. Considering defense is much harder to tangibly measure than offense, impact is pretty synonymous with ability.

Hmm... okay. I'm stating 'better' skill-wise. Someone like Chandler would have a bigger impact than MJ defensively, but he aint in MJ's world when it comes to defensive skills, IQ, and fundamentals.

[bledredwine]

Jordan was the Bulls best defender for the majority of his career. At least that’s what was known around the league at the time. His 88 year is still Defensively the best perimeter year that I’ve seen.... and that’s alongside the scoring title with well over 35 ppg. Imagine Harden doing what he did earlier this year, without threes and then playing the best defense in the league.

After Pippen finally matured, Pippen and Jordan were always on virtually equal turf as defenders.

Tim Duncan is not better, relative to position. I wouldn’t take Duncan over manu of the greatest defensive centers - Russell, Hakeem, Wallace, Robinson, even Dikembe and Zo. Power forward? Sure, he’s up there.