2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

RCM88x · Post #81 » by **RCM88x** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:02 pm

The High Cyde wrote:Zion reportedly told over 300 pounds What the hell are he and the Pels doing? He’ll barely have a career at this point. Dude needs to get advice badly, but you can’t help the people that don’t want to be helped I guess.

Maybe he wants to get out of NOLA? I honestly wouldn't blame him lol, I don't think DG has any grasp of reality currently.

Post #82 » by **Doctor MJ** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:23 pm

falcolombardi wrote:every way that goes by the worst morey looks for not cutting his losses, taking brogdon or McCollum or whoever borderline all star he could get por simmons and run

this gamble of a disgruntled player somehow recovering value or in any circunstances getting them a Damián lillard was insane

the sunk cost fallacy is off the charts

Couldn't agree more. The rough thing is that it's so easy to see how a GM could convince himself over and over again that now isn't the time to trade Simmons unless you get a huge offer, but it's been crystal clear since the playoffs that the time to trade Simmons was before last season, and that is an albatross around the neck of the franchise's morale until you get rid of him.

This is Morey's Folly, and it's definitely the low point in his stellar career.

Post #83 » by **Texas Chuck** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:12 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:every way that goes by the worst morey looks for not cutting his losses, taking brogdon or McCollum or whoever borderline all star he could get por simmons and run

this gamble of a disgruntled player somehow recovering value or in any circunstances getting them a Damián lillard was insane

the sunk cost fallacy is off the charts

Couldn't agree more. The rough thing is that it's so easy to see how a GM could convince himself over and over again that now isn't the time to trade Simmons unless you get a huge offer, but it's been crystal clear since the playoffs that the time to trade Simmons was before last season, and that is an albatross around the neck of the franchise's morale until you get rid of him.

This is Morey's Folly, and it's definitely the low point in his stellar career.

I'm going to continue to take the other side. One, my guess is Morey already knew the Simmons market when he walked in the door because when considering Harden offers he probably explored what he could flip Simmons for. So my guess is there wasn't a deal before last season that he felt made his team better. After all lost in all this narrative is Ben Simmons is really freaking good at basketball

And now of course his market is down and teams are offering crap. I mean LeVert and Brogdon is a terrible offer. CJ is a terrible offer.

So wait it out. A team will increase their offer because 25 year old guys of his ability locked up for 4 years never hit the market. So a smart GM will make a real offer at some point and Morey will cash out at as little of a loss as possible.

But dealing him just to avoid being the butt of NBA twitter would be the low point in his career. Not holding on to a premium asset until other teams get serious.

therealbig3 · Post #84 » by **therealbig3** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:40 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:every way that goes by the worst morey looks for not cutting his losses, taking brogdon or McCollum or whoever borderline all star he could get por simmons and run

this gamble of a disgruntled player somehow recovering value or in any circunstances getting them a Damián lillard was insane

the sunk cost fallacy is off the charts

Couldn't agree more. The rough thing is that it's so easy to see how a GM could convince himself over and over again that now isn't the time to trade Simmons unless you get a huge offer, but it's been crystal clear since the playoffs that the time to trade Simmons was before last season, and that is an albatross around the neck of the franchise's morale until you get rid of him.

This is Morey's Folly, and it's definitely the low point in his stellar career.

I'm going to continue to take the other side. One, my guess is Morey already knew the Simmons market when he walked in the door because when considering Harden offers he probably explored what he could flip Simmons for. So my guess is there wasn't a deal before last season that he felt made his team better. After all lost in all this narrative is Ben Simmons is really freaking good at basketball

And now of course his market is down and teams are offering crap. I mean LeVert and Brogdon is a terrible offer. CJ is a terrible offer.

So wait it out. A team will increase their offer because 25 year old guys of his ability locked up for 4 years never hit the market. So a smart GM will make a real offer at some point and Morey will cash out at as little of a loss as possible.

But dealing him just to avoid being the butt of NBA twitter would be the low point in his career. Not holding on to a premium asset until other teams get serious.

I think you might be overvaluing Simmons as a player though.

He's far along enough in his career and is old enough at this point that you can't bank on potential any more, so we should assume that Simmons is who he is at this point. And idk, he seems to be very limited offensively...and it's no secret any more, the word is out on him.

I don't think his value is what you would expect from a 25-year old All-NBA player locked up for 4 years. That sounds nice on paper. But I think teams around the league see a good player who's too limited to really take a team over the hump...which means him being on a max contract for another 4 years likely works against him, not for him.

Like, I'm pretty sure I would take McCollum over Simmons as a player.

Post #85 » by **Texas Chuck** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:47 pm

CJ over Simmons as a player is a take

MisterHibachi · Post #86 » by **MisterHibachi** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:32 am

CJ for Simmons is not a terrible offer at all, especially given what Simmons value is right now. Yeah, if Simmons reaches his potential, then it'll look like a really lopsided trade, and he has a good chance to reaching his potential next to Dame because that sounds like a good fit on paper, but that's not his trade value right now. No smart GM is going to bail Morey out here. They know no one else is offering anything of value so they have no reason to increase their bid.

CJ plus a protected first sounds like the best Morey is gonna get for Simmons.

Colbinii · Post #87 » by **Colbinii** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:10 am

The Rockets are terrible but holy **** Anthony Edwards is one of the most fluid athletes I have ever seen.

HeartBreakKid · Post #88 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:27 am

MisterHibachi wrote:CJ for Simmons is not a terrible offer at all, especially given what Simmons value is right now. Yeah, if Simmons reaches his potential, then it'll look like a really lopsided trade, and he has a good chance to reaching his potential next to Dame because that sounds like a good fit on paper, but that's not his trade value right now. No smart GM is going to bail Morey out here. They know no one else is offering anything of value so they have no reason to increase their bid.

CJ plus a protected first sounds like the best Morey is gonna get for Simmons.

They actually don't know that at all. Ben Simmons value will be higher at the trade deadline.

Post #89 » by **Goudelock** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:09 am

Colbinii wrote:The Rockets are terrible but holy **** Anthony Edwards is one of the most fluid athletes I have ever seen.

Funny thing is, I was thinking the exact same thing about Jalen Green. That kid moves like water.

Post #90 » by **Texas Chuck** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:52 am

Mike Breen is the GOAT. I will brook no debate on this topic. Great game as it was, but Breen makes every game feel like game 7 of the Finals.

I would pay about 5 grand to have Mike Breen shout Bang after one of my set shot 3's in my over 40 rec league. Most chill-inducing call in all of sports. I've heard it a thousand times and it's still great.

makes me so jealous of Knicks fans. Mavs guy is good, but Mike Breen is just....

Ballerhogger · Post #91 » by **Ballerhogger** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:40 am

Texas Chuck wrote:CJ over Simmons as a player is a take

34 points 6-11 from 3 I mean he can score certainly would be second option with Embiid

falcolombardi · Post #92 » by **falcolombardi** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:52 am

cj is a very clear plus in offense and a 0 (maybe worse?) in defense

simmons is a very clear plus in offense and as far as playoffs go, kind of a 0 in offense tbh

is close to me

therealbig3 · Post #93 » by **therealbig3** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:07 am

Texas Chuck wrote:Mike Breen is the GOAT. I will brook no debate on this topic. Great game as it was, but Breen makes every game feel like game 7 of the Finals.

I would pay about 5 grand to have Mike Breen shout Bang after one of my set shot 3's in my over 40 rec league. Most chill-inducing call in all of sports. I've heard it a thousand times and it's still great.

makes me so jealous of Knicks fans. Mavs guy is good, but Mike Breen is just....

Nah Ian Eagle for me.

But I can't hate on Breen at all...him, Eagle, and Harlan used to be my top 3, but Harlan has been pretty bad lately. Very Marv-like actually, just not getting things right and being behind the action a lot, which isn't what he used to be like.

So for me, it's Eagle and Breen and then a big dropoff to everyone else.

therealbig3 · Post #94 » by **therealbig3** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:20 am

Re: Simmons vs Mccollum and why I would take Mccollum in most situations:

Simmons is a very good defender, but I wouldn't say he's as good as the super elite defenders like Draymond/Davis/Giannis/Bam/Gobert or even Embiid on his own team. He's not someone that can anchor a defense imo, he's just a really good perimeter defender with size and length, so he's got versatility. Like Iguodala back in the day, or George, or Kawhi. That has solid value for sure, but it's really not superstar level value, and it's not really the same as what a strong offensive player can provide, unless Simmons was also backing it up with good offense.

First of all, I firmly believe that Mccollum is a zero-time All-Star solely because he's been in the West, which has been stacked with superstar talent on the perimeter, way moreso than the East. No doubt in my mind that he would be a multi-time All-Star if he was on an Eastern team. So that shouldn't be held against him in a comparison with Simmons. In terms of actual on-court value, Mccollum is a really good offensive player, similar to what Klay Thompson gives an offense. He's capable on the ball, but excels in terms of off-ball offense, and is a dangerous outside threat in terms of spotting up and off the dribble. Capable passer too, don't think he's a tunnel vision player.

He just doesn't do much defensively, I don't think he's so bad he kills a team out there, I don't think he's all that good either that he's worth nothing either. But he gives a lot of offensive value. I'll take that over a defensive role player, which is what Simmons is right now. Simmons can handle the ball and pass, but he's so scared to shoot, and defenses know that, and it actively hurts his team offensively. His performance against the Hawks was pretty damning.

Post #95 » by **Clyde Frazier** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:35 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:Mike Breen is the GOAT. I will brook no debate on this topic. Great game as it was, but Breen makes every game feel like game 7 of the Finals.

I would pay about 5 grand to have Mike Breen shout Bang after one of my set shot 3's in my over 40 rec league. Most chill-inducing call in all of sports. I've heard it a thousand times and it's still great.

makes me so jealous of Knicks fans. Mavs guy is good, but Mike Breen is just....

Yeah I mean marv in his prime is still the GOAT to me, but breen is right there with him. I'd like to say we're spoiled with Breen & Clyde, but it really just offsets all the losing seasons over the last 20 years lol... I still think the mavs have one of the best local broadcast crews in the league tho.

Post #96 » by **Texas Chuck** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:07 pm

I wonder if people realize how inefficient a scorer CJ has been in his career? And how he doesn't get to the rim, he doesn't draw fouls, he's not much of a creator. Now he's a great jump shooter. And he can create his own shot. Those are valuable skills to be sure.

But this idea that he's a top 30 player(all-star) just held back because he's in the West really ignores just who the player actually is. He has two seasons even at league average efficiency. And for a guy who does very little else for you but score.....

Wild to me. I get the Simmons narrative right now and so okay if you guys are really down on his value I get it. Most are. But CJ? Nah that just aint it.

Post #97 » by **Texas Chuck** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:10 pm

therealbig3 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Mike Breen is the GOAT. I will brook no debate on this topic. Great game as it was, but Breen makes every game feel like game 7 of the Finals.

I would pay about 5 grand to have Mike Breen shout Bang after one of my set shot 3's in my over 40 rec league. Most chill-inducing call in all of sports. I've heard it a thousand times and it's still great.

makes me so jealous of Knicks fans. Mavs guy is good, but Mike Breen is just....

Nah Ian Eagle for me.

But I can't hate on Breen at all...him, Eagle, and Harlan used to be my top 3, but Harlan has been pretty bad lately. Very Marv-like actually, just not getting things right and being behind the action a lot, which isn't what he used to be like.

So for me, it's Eagle and Breen and then a big dropoff to everyone else.

Oh Eagle is great no matter what sport he is calling. Really like him. But he just doesn't have that "it" factor for me.

Harlan is a guy with some incredible highs. His ability to improvise on the fly when something interesting happens is really cool. But his voice is so fake and hard to listen to for 3 hours and so much of what he does feels forced. I enjoy his viral hits, but hate an entire game of him.

You know who is sneaky good when he does basketball is Tirico. Such a pro and I love his understated style.

parsnips33 · Post #98 » by **parsnips33** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:15 pm

I love CJ, I think he has probably one of the most aesthetically pleasing games in the league, right up there with Kyrie.

I'm taking Simmons 10 times out of 10. Maybe I value passing and defense too much (see any of my opinions on Draymond) but his passing and his defense are ELITE.

The High Cyde · Post #99 » by **The High Cyde** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:23 pm

Veering OT but I absolutely love listening to SNF with Cris Collinsworth and Al Michaels, they’ll be a duo for a while longer I reckon.

Post #100 » by **Texas Chuck** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:50 pm

fwiw I realize I'm kinda on an island here with my value of Simmons compared to some other players, but Morey just did a radio show and made it clear he's not trading Simmons for role players and he's prepared for the long haul. So right or wrong sounds like Philly is committing to not making a deal just to avoid the drama.