NBA Superstars Playoffs Production Based On Quality Of Opposition

[falcolombardi]

kobe

wade

kawhi

julius

would be cool to see

also west and oscar

not truing to kill you from overwork lol, just some interesting names to consider if you want to make one of them

[ty 4191]

also west and oscar

not truing to kill you from overwork lol, just some interesting names to consider if you want to make one of them

Added Jerry West, folks.

Thoughts?

[LAL1947]

Who else is worth investigating? Who else would people like to see?

Hakeem, Kobe, KG, Dirk and D Wade. Please and thank you.

[ty 4191]

Who else is worth investigating? Who else would people like to see?

Hakeem, Kobe, KG, Dirk and D Wade. Please and thank you.

Added Kobe!! Staggering results!!!!

(See post #1 of this thread.)

[carlquincy]

Hey, thanks for compiling the stats!!!

Edit : 70% for Kobe. Would have thought his % would be closer to Duncan.

[LAL1947]

Added Kobe!! Staggering results!!!!

(See post #1 of this thread.)

Oh my...

A) If, Kobe played almost 72% of his playoff games against Elite + All-time Great teams...
B) And, he "is one of few players who legitimately improves in postseason relative to competition".

Then, what should be the conclusion or implication if we add A + B?

PS: In point B, I'm quoting a respectable poster there (who thinks Kobe is Top 11-15)... so that statement can't be held against me for being biased.

[eminence]

On the 'performance against the very elite' section - at first glance it seems you're averaging performance between the two categories? They should really be weighted by how many games are in each category.

[ty 4191]

On the 'performance against the very elite' section - at first glance it seems you're averaging performance between the two categories? They should really be weighted by how many games are in each category.

That's why I broke it down for every player.

EX:

Kobe:

--40.9% of games played against Elite Teams. +4 to +6.9 Net Rating. 90 games played.

--30.9% of games played against All Time Great Teams. +7.0 or higher Net Rating. 68 games played.

Questions?

Fire away.

[eminence]

On the 'performance against the very elite' section - at first glance it seems you're averaging performance between the two categories? They should really be weighted by how many games are in each category.

That's why I broke it down for every player.

EX:

Kobe:

--40.9% of games played against Elite Teams. +4 to +6.9 Net Rating. 90 games played.

--30.9% of games played against All Time Great Teams. +7.0 or higher Net Rating. 68 games played.

Questions?

Fire away.

I think I get what you're doing, but the combined section is just not correctly done.

Eg for Kobe:
Elite opp (40.9%) - 39.6 mpg, 25.9 pts, 5.0 reb, 4.6 ast, +2.6 rTS%
ATG opp (30.9%) - 36.4 mpg, 22.9 pts, 4.8 reb, 4.4 ast, +2.1 rTS%

You've given his averages against the two groups combined as: 38 mpg, 24.4 pts, 4.9 reb, 4.5 ast, 2.4 rTS%

Presumably by doing this equation: (elite + atg)/2 = average

It should be (elite * (elite%/(elite%+atg%)))+(atg * (atg%/(elite%+atg%))) = average

For Kobe it'd give: 38.2 mpg, 24.6 pts, 4.9 reb, 4.5 ast, 2.4 rTS%

It'd be a bigger difference for guys with less equal times vs the two levels of opposition, Russell the most severe.

[LAL1947]

@Ty141, it would be nice to list the players in some sort of order in the OP. Perhaps, you can move the section with the list to the top of your OP. I mean, the portion titled "Performance Against The Very Best: Versus Elite + All Time Great Teams" in red font. Then list the players by era, or by % of playoff games against Elite + All-time?

Questions?

Fire away.

I think I get what you're doing, but the combined section is just not correctly done.

Eg for Kobe:
Elite opp (40.9%) - 39.6 mpg, 25.9 pts, 5.0 reb, 4.6 ast, +2.6 rTS%
ATG opp (30.9%) - 36.4 mpg, 22.9 pts, 4.8 reb, 4.4 ast, +2.1 rTS%

You've given his averages against the two groups combined as: 38 mpg, 24.4 pts, 4.9 reb, 4.5 ast, 2.4 rTS%

Presumably by doing this equation: (elite + atg)/2 = average

It should be (elite * (elite%/(elite%+atg%)))+(atg * (atg%/(elite%+atg%))) = average

For Kobe it'd give: 38.2 mpg, 24.6 pts, 4.9 reb, 4.5 ast, 2.4 rTS%

Eminence has a good point. It's marginal but his method will give a more accurate average as it'll be correctly weighted.

[Frosty]

Note that Tim Duncan's Spurs were 1st in the league for 4 of the 5 years they won a title and were 3rd for the other one (2003). This score would thus imply that the Spurs won titles in years that they were expected to and should have won... but couldn't win titles by elevating themselves in other years, except in 2003.

When you factor in that in 2003 the only team he faced with a higher SRS was Dallas who lost Dirk in Game 3, Dallas was no longer a great team.

[70sFan]

Magic Johnson:

Regular Season: 26.7 MPG, 19.5 PPG, 11.2 AST, .520 FG%, (6.7 rTS%)

Against Bad Teams: (8.4% of playoff games): 36.9 MPG, 17.6 PPG, 7.3 RBS, 15.5 AST, (+4.3 rTS%)
Against Average Teams: (27.8% of playoff games): 39.9 MPG, 18.0 PPG, 8.3 RBS, 12.2 AST (+0.0 tTS%)
Against Good Teams: (24.6% of playoff games): 39.6 MPG, 20.6. PPG, 6.9 RBS, 11.7 AST (+5.5 tTS%)
Against Elite Teams: (29.3% of playoff games): 38.3 MPG, 20.7 PPG, 6.7 RBS, 13.3 AST (+6.4 rTS%)
Against All Time Great Teams: (9.9% of playoff games): 41.4 MPG, 17.9 PPG, 8.9 RBS, 11.3 AST, (+3.4 tTS%)

Performance Against The Very Best: Versus Elite + All Time Great Teams

Magic: (39.2% of total games): 39.9 MPG, 19.3 PPG, 7.8 RBS, 12.3 AST, (+3.9 tTS%)

I looked closer through the stats and I found a few differences with my rough calculations, so I decided to calculate everything for one player. I used the same Net Rating definitions for good, bad etc. teams.

I used Magic Johnson as an example and here are my results:

Against Bad Teams: (5.8% of playoff games): 36.5 MPG, 19.7 PPG, 6.0 RBS, 11.5 AST, (+5.6 rTS%)
Against Average Teams: (25.8% of playoff games): 38.5 MPG, 20.0 PPG, 7.6 RBS, 12.4 AST (+4.4 rTS%)
Against Good Teams: (27.9% of playoff games): 39.7 MPG, 18.1. PPG, 8.2 RBS, 12.9 AST (+5.3 rTS%)
Against Elite Teams: (30.5% of playoff games): 40.0 MPG, 20.2 PPG, 7.6 RBS, 11.6 AST (+8.9 rTS%)
Against All Time Great Teams: (10.0% of playoff games): 43.6 MPG, 19.7 PPG, 7.7 RBS, 12.9 AST, (+6.9 rTS%)

Performance Against The Very Best: Versus Elite + All Time Great Teams

Magic: (40.5% of total games): 40.9 MPG, 20.1 PPG, 7.6 RBS, 11.9 AST, (+8.5 rTS%)

The thing is - my numbers look much different than yours. Is there any reason for that?

I used basketball-reference totals and Net Ratings. Here is my statsheet (sorry for Polish language):

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQC1r86penKbOYQ32-PA6zKQD4CnibxQ_cIQ3WoLZTPox4LWIWDK0lV7zRhKy-m3n7A1KMWkJ_EkTWV/pub?output=xlsx

Is there any explaination for these differences? I don't have enough time now to do that for other players.

[ty 4191]

Magic Johnson:

Regular Season: 26.7 MPG, 19.5 PPG, 11.2 AST, .520 FG%, (6.7 rTS%)

Against Bad Teams: (8.4% of playoff games): 36.9 MPG, 17.6 PPG, 7.3 RBS, 15.5 AST, (+4.3 rTS%)
Against Average Teams: (27.8% of playoff games): 39.9 MPG, 18.0 PPG, 8.3 RBS, 12.2 AST (+0.0 tTS%)
Against Good Teams: (24.6% of playoff games): 39.6 MPG, 20.6. PPG, 6.9 RBS, 11.7 AST (+5.5 tTS%)
Against Elite Teams: (29.3% of playoff games): 38.3 MPG, 20.7 PPG, 6.7 RBS, 13.3 AST (+6.4 rTS%)
Against All Time Great Teams: (9.9% of playoff games): 41.4 MPG, 17.9 PPG, 8.9 RBS, 11.3 AST, (+3.4 tTS%)

Performance Against The Very Best: Versus Elite + All Time Great Teams

Magic: (39.2% of total games): 39.9 MPG, 19.3 PPG, 7.8 RBS, 12.3 AST, (+3.9 tTS%)

I looked closer through the stats and I found a few differences with my rough calculations, so I decided to calculate everything for one player. I used the same Net Rating definitions for good, bad etc. teams.

I used Magic Johnson as an example and here are my results:

Against Bad Teams: (5.8% of playoff games): 36.5 MPG, 19.7 PPG, 6.0 RBS, 11.5 AST, (+5.6 rTS%)
Against Average Teams: (25.8% of playoff games): 38.5 MPG, 20.0 PPG, 7.6 RBS, 12.4 AST (+4.4 rTS%)
Against Good Teams: (27.9% of playoff games): 39.7 MPG, 18.1. PPG, 8.2 RBS, 12.9 AST (+5.3 rTS%)
Against Elite Teams: (30.5% of playoff games): 40.0 MPG, 20.2 PPG, 7.6 RBS, 11.6 AST (+8.9 rTS%)
Against All Time Great Teams: (10.0% of playoff games): 43.6 MPG, 19.7 PPG, 7.7 RBS, 12.9 AST, (+6.9 rTS%)

Performance Against The Very Best: Versus Elite + All Time Great Teams

Magic: (40.5% of total games): 40.9 MPG, 20.1 PPG, 7.6 RBS, 11.9 AST, (+8.5 rTS%)

The thing is - my numbers look much different than yours. Is there any reason for that?

I used basketball-reference totals and Net Ratings. Here is my statsheet (sorry for Polish language):

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQC1r86penKbOYQ32-PA6zKQD4CnibxQ_cIQ3WoLZTPox4LWIWDK0lV7zRhKy-m3n7A1KMWkJ_EkTWV/pub?output=xlsx

Is there any explaination for these differences? I don't have enough time now to do that for other players.

Send me a PM, 70's Fan.

[ty 4191]

On the 'performance against the very elite' section - at first glance it seems you're averaging performance between the two categories? They should really be weighted by how many games are in each category.

That's why I broke it down for every player.

EX:

Kobe:

--40.9% of games played against Elite Teams. +4 to +6.9 Net Rating. 90 games played.

--30.9% of games played against All Time Great Teams. +7.0 or higher Net Rating. 68 games played.

Questions?

Fire away.

I think I get what you're doing, but the combined section is just not correctly done.

Eg for Kobe:
Elite opp (40.9%) - 39.6 mpg, 25.9 pts, 5.0 reb, 4.6 ast, +2.6 rTS%
ATG opp (30.9%) - 36.4 mpg, 22.9 pts, 4.8 reb, 4.4 ast, +2.1 rTS%

You've given his averages against the two groups combined as: 38 mpg, 24.4 pts, 4.9 reb, 4.5 ast, 2.4 rTS%

Presumably by doing this equation: (elite + atg)/2 = average

It should be (elite * (elite%/(elite%+atg%)))+(atg * (atg%/(elite%+atg%))) = average

For Kobe it'd give: 38.2 mpg, 24.6 pts, 4.9 reb, 4.5 ast, 2.4 rTS%

It'd be a bigger difference for guys with less equal times vs the two levels of opposition, Russell the most severe.

Great point. If I send you the spreadsheet, would you tabulate it the way you just elaborated, above?

[ty 4191]

@Ty141, it would be nice to list the players in some sort of order in the OP. Perhaps, you can move the section with the list to the top of your OP. I mean, the portion titled "Performance Against The Very Best: Versus Elite + All Time Great Teams" in red font. Then list the players by era, or by % of playoff games against Elite + All-time?

I took your suggestion and ordered the players by % of games vs. Elite plus All Time Great Teams. Also, I moved the section to the top of the OP.

Thanks!

[LAL1947]

@Ty141, it would be nice to list the players in some sort of order in the OP. Perhaps, you can move the section with the list to the top of your OP. I mean, the portion titled "Performance Against The Very Best: Versus Elite + All Time Great Teams" in red font. Then list the players by era, or by % of playoff games against Elite + All-time?

I took your suggestion and ordered the players by % of games vs. Elite plus All Time Great Teams. Also, I moved the section to the top of the OP.

Thanks! That helps. It's nice to have that section at the top and ordered. If someone new finds the thread, they'll see it first, observe the conclusion and can then look through the rest of the data below if they want to.

Could you please do Hakeem next when/if you have the time?

[ty 4191]

Could you please do Hakeem next when/if you have the time?

Yes, sir. He's up next!

[ty 4191]

Could you please do Hakeem next when/if you have the time?

Yes, sir. He's up next!

Added Olajuwon!!! Enjoy!

Thoughts, everyone, thus far? This is going to likely be a multi year project!

[ty 4191]

@Ty141, it would be nice to list the players in some sort of order in the OP. Perhaps, you can move the section with the list to the top of your OP. I mean, the portion titled "Performance Against The Very Best: Versus Elite + All Time Great Teams" in red font. Then list the players by era, or by % of playoff games against Elite + All-time?

Questions?

Fire away.

I think I get what you're doing, but the combined section is just not correctly done.

Eg for Kobe:
Elite opp (40.9%) - 39.6 mpg, 25.9 pts, 5.0 reb, 4.6 ast, +2.6 rTS%
ATG opp (30.9%) - 36.4 mpg, 22.9 pts, 4.8 reb, 4.4 ast, +2.1 rTS%

You've given his averages against the two groups combined as: 38 mpg, 24.4 pts, 4.9 reb, 4.5 ast, 2.4 rTS%

Presumably by doing this equation: (elite + atg)/2 = average

It should be (elite * (elite%/(elite%+atg%)))+(atg * (atg%/(elite%+atg%))) = average

For Kobe it'd give: 38.2 mpg, 24.6 pts, 4.9 reb, 4.5 ast, 2.4 rTS%

Eminence has a good point. It's marginal but his method will give a more accurate average as it'll be correctly weighted.

This is a great point. Anyone up for giving this a stab? If so, go for it, Eminence or anyone else interested. The data is all in the OP.

[Ginoboleee]

Could you please do Hakeem next when/if you have the time?

Yes, sir. He's up next!

Added Olajuwon!!! Enjoy!

Thoughts, everyone, thus far? This is going to likely be a multi year project!

I love it. But then again, I'm a clueless noob.

And now with Dream added it sure looks like the 90s ruled, just like we OldHeads keep trying to tell you all lol.

Hey, next up, were you thinking Big O, Mailman, Shaq, or KG?