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zimpy27 wrote:We're famous because of Gregoire
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2267491&start=320#p104414614
Think they got upset that we laughed at their analytics (ppg, fg%, apg)
zimpy27 wrote:homecourtloss wrote:RRR3 wrote:Westbrook worked with one of LeBron or AD. Not both.
This year, Westbrook + AD worked on offense but not on defense. Westbrook + LeBron was actually one of the best duos in the NBA after AD’s injury but there were just too many other holes. The Lakers should have started Westbrook with LeBron after AD’s injury. They wound up getting into 1st quarter deficits and then came back with the duo.
In the upcoming weeks, we’re likely to hear a lot about Westbrook on the Clips, and possibly some “how they make it work while LeBron didn’t,” etc., so here are some numbers for people to keep in mind.
Lakers in 2022-2023
Westbrook ON court, LeBron and AD OFF court: 106.6 ORtg, 120.6 DRtg, -14.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron + AD ON Court: 113.8 ORtg, 112.0 DRtg, +1.8 NET
Westbrook + AD ON court, LeBron OFF court: 119.2 ORtg, 120.2 DRtg, -1.0 NET
Westbrook + LeBron ON court, AD OFF: 119.8 ORtg, 111.8 DRtg, +8.0 NET
Lakers from 12/16/2022 (AD’s injury) until Westbrook was traded
Westbrook + LeBron ON court, AD OFF: 122.9 ORtg, 112.6 DRtg, +10.3 NET
There is a quirk with LeBron and +/- for 2-man lineups. He has a long history of having his best +/- with the bench PG. Delly, Caruso, Westbrook, every year in fact. It's actually largely due to the fact that LeBron playing with bench PG is often going against the opponent bench and destroying them.
Heej wrote:zimpy27 wrote:We're famous because of Gregoire
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2267491&start=320#p104414614
Think they got upset that we laughed at their analytics (ppg, fg%, apg)
Lmao his story arc on PC board is one of nightmares
Mos_Heat wrote:MyUniBroDavis wrote:Mos_Heat wrote:Bad defensively and not good enough offensively(45% TS in the playoffs)
Bro has played 2 series in his career lol
The defense sucks but honestly doesn’t seem horribly bad at least watching, seems more below average. Offensively good passer that’s maybe underutilized in that regard, and a good shooter. That’s a solid starting guard I think
Ehh, his reg season career TS isn't lights out either. Maybe he's a solid guard, somewhere in the top 20-25 at his position. But with aging Lebron they would need more than that
homecourtloss wrote:thebigbird wrote:Homer38 wrote:I did not watch much the lakers lately because the games are too late for me but is Darvin Ham better since Westbrook is gone?(like better rotation,less 3 guards lineup and thing like that)
He still plays Schroder more than I would probably like, but yes much better. Like Colbinii said, he has way more options now. It’s crazy seeing Walker go from playing 30+ mpg pretrade to 8 minutes in garbage time last night.
His decision to take Lonnie “Net negative” Walker out of the rotation was key. One of the reasons that the lakers have looked so good the last two games is that they’ve only really played two poor defenders in DLo (who’s much better than he used to be and not a sieve) and Beasley who seems to be taking direction well with James on court. With the way Reaves is playing, Walker should only see garbage time minutes.
zimpy27 wrote:Heej wrote:zimpy27 wrote:We're famous because of Gregoire
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2267491&start=320#p104414614
Think they got upset that we laughed at their analytics (ppg, fg%, apg)
Lmao his story arc on PC board is one of nightmares
Do tell
Gather 'round children
zimpy27 wrote:rk2023 wrote:?s=46&t=JLwWE6oPc2_zoqRurJQSkQ
Some pretty insane playmaking indicators here, considering this age. Forget older Nash, Stockton, Kidd etc. We’ve never seen this talented a playmaker at age 38 in NBA history. It’s crazy that current James might be better in this department than a lot of players’ apexes.
*Cough* Westbrook
Heej wrote:zimpy27 wrote:rk2023 wrote:?s=46&t=JLwWE6oPc2_zoqRurJQSkQ
Some pretty insane playmaking indicators here, considering this age. Forget older Nash, Stockton, Kidd etc. We’ve never seen this talented a playmaker at age 38 in NBA history. It’s crazy that current James might be better in this department than a lot of players’ apexes.
*Cough* Westbrook
For all his gripes I don't think passing is one of them. I think this is literally looking at who throws the best passes in a variety of ways right? Because imo Westbrook's one of the most technically skilled passers in the league. He misses some easy ones occasionally, so he randomly has that weird error rate at first glance but when you watch him you can really see how gifted he is as a passer.
He can do it all and with both hands. PNR passes, post entry passes, lobs over fronting defenses or to guys that have their defender sealed, cross court passes to shooters, outlets, through tight windows, placing the correct spin on the ball, just an overall great ability to lead players. There's a reason guys like PG Beal and LeBron have great scoring seasons next to him. He can make the right pass every time and place it where only his teammate can get to it and perfectly in line to store.
It's just all the other stuff that hurts with him.
Mogspan wrote:I think they see the super rare combo of high IQ with freakish athleticism and overrate the former a bit, kind of like a hot girl who is rather articulate being thought of as “super smart.” I don’t know kind of a weird analogy, but you catch my drift.
rk2023 wrote:Heej wrote:zimpy27 wrote:
*Cough* Westbrook
For all his gripes I don't think passing is one of them. I think this is literally looking at who throws the best passes in a variety of ways right? Because imo Westbrook's one of the most technically skilled passers in the league. He misses some easy ones occasionally, so he randomly has that weird error rate at first glance but when you watch him you can really see how gifted he is as a passer.
He can do it all and with both hands. PNR passes, post entry passes, lobs over fronting defenses or to guys that have their defender sealed, cross court passes to shooters, outlets, through tight windows, placing the correct spin on the ball, just an overall great ability to lead players. There's a reason guys like PG Beal and LeBron have great scoring seasons next to him. He can make the right pass every time and place it where only his teammate can get to it and perfectly in line to store.
It's just all the other stuff that hurts with him.
If I’m not mistaken, the metric of versatility is utilized to assess passing proficiency in various sets and scenarios rather than different passing mechanics / bodily control
Heej wrote:zimpy27 wrote:Heej wrote:Lmao his story arc on PC board is one of nightmares
Do tell
Gather 'round children
Basically came on to PC board as a complete noob and seemingly captivated by the discussion here and higher level basketball discourse. Had a real penchant for peaks and always used to PM me asking me to rank just random guys' peaks, making topics about peaks, comparing peaks, but overall coming across as a regular poster. Even used to pop in here fairly regularly for a stretch.
Then idk what happened but I'd see random comments suggesting he kinda aligned with the Jordan argument which is perfectly cool with me, cuz to each their own GOAT ya know? But I stopped being so active here until recently and dude has just turned into full blown LeBron hater NPC and idk how or why it happened.
Kinda weird that he'd call out a bunch of posters in here like that by name but I guess it should be taken as a compliment. I'm about to watch the replay of last night's game so I'll try to share some thoughts on the film. But I suspect the thing that's gonna stick out the most to me is how defenses actually respect the gravity of DLo and Beasley. Or maybe it's Vanderbilt's ranginess? Feeling very 2018-ish with these reshuffling the deck kinda vibes.
It's funny how people crap on LeBron as a leader but there's literally not a single person in NBA history I would actually trust more to find a way to shorten the learning curve for all the new guys and fast track the gel'ing process. You can literally guarantee that his teams will level up in between every playoff series. Dunno if we'll ever see something quite like it again.
If mods aren't cool with the first half of that post just reply and tell me to snip it out, would rather not catch an unnecessary warning after my recent one.
Heej wrote:rk2023 wrote:Heej wrote:For all his gripes I don't think passing is one of them. I think this is literally looking at who throws the best passes in a variety of ways right? Because imo Westbrook's one of the most technically skilled passers in the league. He misses some easy ones occasionally, so he randomly has that weird error rate at first glance but when you watch him you can really see how gifted he is as a passer.
He can do it all and with both hands. PNR passes, post entry passes, lobs over fronting defenses or to guys that have their defender sealed, cross court passes to shooters, outlets, through tight windows, placing the correct spin on the ball, just an overall great ability to lead players. There's a reason guys like PG Beal and LeBron have great scoring seasons next to him. He can make the right pass every time and place it where only his teammate can get to it and perfectly in line to store.
It's just all the other stuff that hurts with him.
If I’m not mistaken, the metric of versatility is utilized to assess passing proficiency in various sets and scenarios rather than different passing mechanics / bodily control
Oh word thanks. I think some of those observations kinda reflect on that too tho no? Like he's equally good with bounce passes to rollers as he is lobs and going both directions in a set. Where others might only be good with their strong hand or worse with bounces so their versatility grades out lower. He's just a really good passer imo. Just got way too many flaws with shot selection and rushing.
Mogspan wrote:I think they see the super rare combo of high IQ with freakish athleticism and overrate the former a bit, kind of like a hot girl who is rather articulate being thought of as “super smart.” I don’t know kind of a weird analogy, but you catch my drift.
zimpy27 wrote:Heej wrote:zimpy27 wrote:
Do tell
Gather 'round children
Basically came on to PC board as a complete noob and seemingly captivated by the discussion here and higher level basketball discourse. Had a real penchant for peaks and always used to PM me asking me to rank just random guys' peaks, making topics about peaks, comparing peaks, but overall coming across as a regular poster. Even used to pop in here fairly regularly for a stretch.
Then idk what happened but I'd see random comments suggesting he kinda aligned with the Jordan argument which is perfectly cool with me, cuz to each their own GOAT ya know? But I stopped being so active here until recently and dude has just turned into full blown LeBron hater NPC and idk how or why it happened.
Kinda weird that he'd call out a bunch of posters in here like that by name but I guess it should be taken as a compliment. I'm about to watch the replay of last night's game so I'll try to share some thoughts on the film. But I suspect the thing that's gonna stick out the most to me is how defenses actually respect the gravity of DLo and Beasley. Or maybe it's Vanderbilt's ranginess? Feeling very 2018-ish with these reshuffling the deck kinda vibes.
It's funny how people crap on LeBron as a leader but there's literally not a single person in NBA history I would actually trust more to find a way to shorten the learning curve for all the new guys and fast track the gel'ing process. You can literally guarantee that his teams will level up in between every playoff series. Dunno if we'll ever see something quite like it again.
If mods aren't cool with the first half of that post just reply and tell me to snip it out, would rather not catch an unnecessary warning after my recent one.
Checking past posts and from the very beginning they were hyped on Jordan. I think the Gregoire we see now is the true Gregoire.
Heej wrote:zimpy27 wrote:Heej wrote:Basically came on to PC board as a complete noob and seemingly captivated by the discussion here and higher level basketball discourse. Had a real penchant for peaks and always used to PM me asking me to rank just random guys' peaks, making topics about peaks, comparing peaks, but overall coming across as a regular poster. Even used to pop in here fairly regularly for a stretch.
Then idk what happened but I'd see random comments suggesting he kinda aligned with the Jordan argument which is perfectly cool with me, cuz to each their own GOAT ya know? But I stopped being so active here until recently and dude has just turned into full blown LeBron hater NPC and idk how or why it happened.
Kinda weird that he'd call out a bunch of posters in here like that by name but I guess it should be taken as a compliment. I'm about to watch the replay of last night's game so I'll try to share some thoughts on the film. But I suspect the thing that's gonna stick out the most to me is how defenses actually respect the gravity of DLo and Beasley. Or maybe it's Vanderbilt's ranginess? Feeling very 2018-ish with these reshuffling the deck kinda vibes.
It's funny how people crap on LeBron as a leader but there's literally not a single person in NBA history I would actually trust more to find a way to shorten the learning curve for all the new guys and fast track the gel'ing process. You can literally guarantee that his teams will level up in between every playoff series. Dunno if we'll ever see something quite like it again.
If mods aren't cool with the first half of that post just reply and tell me to snip it out, would rather not catch an unnecessary warning after my recent one.
Checking past posts and from the very beginning they were hyped on Jordan. I think the Gregoire we see now is the true Gregoire.
Lmao damn were they doing the whole pathological LeBron hater thing tho or has that been a more recent thing?
zimpy27 wrote:Heej wrote:zimpy27 wrote:
Do tell
Gather 'round children
Basically came on to PC board as a complete noob and seemingly captivated by the discussion here and higher level basketball discourse. Had a real penchant for peaks and always used to PM me asking me to rank just random guys' peaks, making topics about peaks, comparing peaks, but overall coming across as a regular poster. Even used to pop in here fairly regularly for a stretch.
Then idk what happened but I'd see random comments suggesting he kinda aligned with the Jordan argument which is perfectly cool with me, cuz to each their own GOAT ya know? But I stopped being so active here until recently and dude has just turned into full blown LeBron hater NPC and idk how or why it happened.
Kinda weird that he'd call out a bunch of posters in here like that by name but I guess it should be taken as a compliment. I'm about to watch the replay of last night's game so I'll try to share some thoughts on the film. But I suspect the thing that's gonna stick out the most to me is how defenses actually respect the gravity of DLo and Beasley. Or maybe it's Vanderbilt's ranginess? Feeling very 2018-ish with these reshuffling the deck kinda vibes.
It's funny how people crap on LeBron as a leader but there's literally not a single person in NBA history I would actually trust more to find a way to shorten the learning curve for all the new guys and fast track the gel'ing process. You can literally guarantee that his teams will level up in between every playoff series. Dunno if we'll ever see something quite like it again.
If mods aren't cool with the first half of that post just reply and tell me to snip it out, would rather not catch an unnecessary warning after my recent one.
Checking past posts and from the very beginning they were hyped on Jordan. I think the Gregoire we see now is the true Gregoire.
Mogspan wrote:I think they see the super rare combo of high IQ with freakish athleticism and overrate the former a bit, kind of like a hot girl who is rather articulate being thought of as “super smart.” I don’t know kind of a weird analogy, but you catch my drift.
Heej wrote:zimpy27 wrote:rk2023 wrote:?s=46&t=JLwWE6oPc2_zoqRurJQSkQ
Some pretty insane playmaking indicators here, considering this age. Forget older Nash, Stockton, Kidd etc. We’ve never seen this talented a playmaker at age 38 in NBA history. It’s crazy that current James might be better in this department than a lot of players’ apexes.
*Cough* Westbrook
For all his gripes I don't think passing is one of them. I think this is literally looking at who throws the best passes in a variety of ways right? Because imo Westbrook's one of the most technically skilled passers in the league. He misses some easy ones occasionally, so he randomly has that weird error rate at first glance but when you watch him you can really see how gifted he is as a passer.
He can do it all and with both hands. PNR passes, post entry passes, lobs over fronting defenses or to guys that have their defender sealed, cross court passes to shooters, outlets, through tight windows, placing the correct spin on the ball, just an overall great ability to lead players. There's a reason guys like PG Beal and LeBron have great scoring seasons next to him. He can make the right pass every time and place it where only his teammate can get to it and perfectly in line to store.
It's just all the other stuff that hurts with him.
lessthanjake wrote:Kyrie was extremely impactful without LeBron, and basically had zero impact whatsoever if LeBron was on the court.
lessthanjake wrote: By playing in a way that prevents Kyrie from getting much impact, LeBron ensures that controlling for Kyrie has limited effect…
homecourtloss wrote:Heej wrote:zimpy27 wrote:
*Cough* Westbrook
For all his gripes I don't think passing is one of them. I think this is literally looking at who throws the best passes in a variety of ways right? Because imo Westbrook's one of the most technically skilled passers in the league. He misses some easy ones occasionally, so he randomly has that weird error rate at first glance but when you watch him you can really see how gifted he is as a passer.
He can do it all and with both hands. PNR passes, post entry passes, lobs over fronting defenses or to guys that have their defender sealed, cross court passes to shooters, outlets, through tight windows, placing the correct spin on the ball, just an overall great ability to lead players. There's a reason guys like PG Beal and LeBron have great scoring seasons next to him. He can make the right pass every time and place it where only his teammate can get to it and perfectly in line to store.
It's just all the other stuff that hurts with him.
But but but LeBron only makes kick out passes.
It’s also absolutely wild that you have two of the top five or six players on this chart on one team that has such a mediocre offense. That tells you something about the teams ability to make wide-open shots.
As for Westbrook, his playmaking was always good and LeBron benefited from Westbrook’s play making and some of their two-man game actions, and he did get LeBron a lot of easy baskets. When you take a look at someone like Westbrook, who has either been average efficient or horrendous efficient his entire career and you see that he’s had some really good ORPM/ORAPM/ORAPTOR seasons, you know it’s the playmaking. Even this year he was an offensive plus player, especially when playing with LeBron DESPITE having -8 to -10 rTS% numbers all year AND being turnover prone. This is pretty much impossible to do but he’s a great play maker.
If we were the same playmaker, and good defensively, things would be different. If he was that good of a playmaker and averagely efficient it would be different. But he’s not.
homecourtloss wrote:Heej wrote:zimpy27 wrote:
*Cough* Westbrook
For all his gripes I don't think passing is one of them. I think this is literally looking at who throws the best passes in a variety of ways right? Because imo Westbrook's one of the most technically skilled passers in the league. He misses some easy ones occasionally, so he randomly has that weird error rate at first glance but when you watch him you can really see how gifted he is as a passer.
He can do it all and with both hands. PNR passes, post entry passes, lobs over fronting defenses or to guys that have their defender sealed, cross court passes to shooters, outlets, through tight windows, placing the correct spin on the ball, just an overall great ability to lead players. There's a reason guys like PG Beal and LeBron have great scoring seasons next to him. He can make the right pass every time and place it where only his teammate can get to it and perfectly in line to store.
It's just all the other stuff that hurts with him.
But but but LeBron only makes kick out passes.
It’s also absolutely wild that you have two of the top five or six players on this chart on one team that has such a mediocre offense. That tells you something about the teams ability to make wide-open shots.
As for Westbrook, his playmaking was always good and LeBron benefited from Westbrook’s play making and some of their two-man game actions, and he did get LeBron a lot of easy baskets. When you take a look at someone like Westbrook, who has either been average efficient or horrendous efficient his entire career and you see that he’s had some really good ORPM/ORAPM/ORAPTOR seasons, you know it’s the playmaking. Even this year he was an offensive plus player, especially when playing with LeBron DESPITE having -8 to -10 rTS% numbers all year AND being turnover prone. This is pretty much impossible to do but he’s a great play maker.
If we were the same playmaker, and good defensively, things would be different. If he was that good of a playmaker and averagely efficient it would be different. But he’s not.
VanWest82 wrote:Hello. I come in peace. Am I crazy or is this new look Lakers team really good? I assume you guys have all gone back and deleted your Pelinka hate posts lol. That was quite a deadline!
I get you're now counting on a lot of young guys who haven't done it before, but assuming said young guys don't shrink in the moment, is there anyone you're really afraid of in the west? I kind of like Lakers to get to Finals. Bucks or Celtics will be a problem but no way Lakers had a chance at Finals before the deadline. Congrats.