2024-25 NBA Season Discussion

[eminence]

Seeya Utah.

And I may be the biggest Buddy fan on the board, so I quite appreciate what GS has done so far this offseason.

Why you leaving Utah? You just dislike their lack of activity?

Ingles has arrived in Minnesota, duh.

[ronnymac2]

Grant Hill is 51 years old and has an immaculate hairline.

I didn't realize Canada is so stacked. They definitely *could* win a tourney-style competition. It's all NBA players...and not bad ones.

Really great to see selfish Kawhi Leonard not on Team USA. It was a travesty he was invited in the first place. Good on Derrick White for taking the opportunity.

I think Anthony Davis has been the best player in the first half. His defense is insane.

[jalengreen]

Grant Hill is 51 years old and has an immaculate hairline.

I didn't realize Canada is so stacked. They definitely *could* win a tourney-style competition. It's all NBA players...and not bad ones.

Really great to see selfish Kawhi Leonard not on Team USA. It was a travesty he was invited in the first place. Good on Derrick White for taking the opportunity.

I think Anthony Davis has been the best player in the first half. His defense is insane.

Having Powell as your starting center is rough, and their depth there isn't exactly good either. I would've liked to see Edey even though he's obviously inexperienced, but in theory he should translate well to international play. Maybe in future competitions.

[Doctor MJ]

I'm going a bit nuts right now with Jaylen Brown responding to his teammate Derrick White being named an Olympian by alleging a Nike conspiracy. Crackpot thinking and a selfish teammate. Great way to follow up a chip.

[AEnigma]

I'm going a bit nuts right now with Jaylen Brown responding to his teammate Derrick White being named an Olympian by alleging a Nike conspiracy. Crackpot thinking and a selfish teammate. Great way to follow up a chip.

Nike has an inordinately high degree of input, and — despite the plus/minus indicators — it is indeed an absolute slap in the face for Jaylen to be disregarded for a second lesser star on his own team, with no superior history with the organisation (or the head coach) and no real team need.

That said, Jaylen also should not be implicitly attacking a teammate as a means of soothing his own wounded ego. Imagine if any of the 2004-08 Pistons had publicly railed against Tayshaun making the Redeem team.

[Doctor MJ]

I'm going a bit nuts right now with Jaylen Brown responding to his teammate Derrick White being named an Olympian by alleging a Nike conspiracy. Crackpot thinking and a selfish teammate. Great way to follow up a chip.

Nike has an inordinately high degree of input, and — despite the plus/minus indicators — it is indeed an absolute slap in the face for Jaylen to be disregarded for a second lesser star on his own team, with no superior history with the organisation (or the head coach) and no real team need.

That said, Jaylen also should not be implicitly attacking a teammate as a means of soothing his own wounded ego. Imagine if any of the 2004-08 Pistons had publicly railed against Tayshaun making the Redeem team.

I mean, Grant Hill is the boss, and he's an actual basketball superstar who sold a ton of shoes...for Fila. The idea that he punted on his own assessment (along with coach Kerr's assessment) to please a company that he isn't working for, and isn't known for working for, is paranoid.

Re: no real team need. Well I mean, White is a better shooter, features off-ball 3's as a bigger part of his game, and is a better overall defender than Brown in my assessment. If Team USA needed someone to be one the main volume scorers and were choosing between Brown & White I'm sure they'd have picked Brown, but of course, that was never going to be Team USA's situation because the foundation of the team was always going to be guys who already did that, and did that better than Brown.

Re: slap in the face to choose a lesser stature teammate over Brown. That's clearly how Brown feels, but that doesn't mean Brown's feelings were the intention. If Hill thought choosing White was making Team USA worse than choosing Brown and he did it anyway he should be fired...but typing those words I think makes clear how far-fetched all this sounds. Hill's not trying to sabotage Team USA, and he's not some vulnerable middle manager who needs the pay check. Sure it's possible that the suits at Nike were able to convince him of something untrue about basketball, but quite literally if anyone at Nike tried to make Grant Hill feel like he doesn't know basketball, I think they'd be shown the door pretty quickly.

[Peregrine01]

Quick thought on the exhibition match: it’s really jarring how much the difference in officiating can affect the game and certain players in particular. Embiid’s game seems to depend on the crazy whistles that he gets in the NBA. No where near as effective under FIBA rules.

[AEnigma]

I'm going a bit nuts right now with Jaylen Brown responding to his teammate Derrick White being named an Olympian by alleging a Nike conspiracy. Crackpot thinking and a selfish teammate. Great way to follow up a chip.

Nike has an inordinately high degree of input, and — despite the plus/minus indicators — it is indeed an absolute slap in the face for Jaylen to be disregarded for a second lesser star on his own team, with no superior history with the organisation (or the head coach) and no real team need.

That said, Jaylen also should not be implicitly attacking a teammate as a means of soothing his own wounded ego. Imagine if any of the 2004-08 Pistons had publicly railed against Tayshaun making the Redeem team.

I mean, Grant Hill is the boss, and he's an actual basketball superstar who sold a ton of shoes...for Fila. The idea that he punted on his own assessment (along with coach Kerr's assessment) to please a company that he isn't working for, and isn't known for working for, is paranoid.

Maybe paranoid if this happens to be the first time you have ever heard anything about Nike influence in USA basketball.

Re: no real team need. Well I mean, White is a better shooter, features off-ball 3's as a bigger part of his game, and is a better overall defender than Brown in my assessment. If Team USA needed someone to be one the main volume scorers and were choosing between Brown & White I'm sure they'd have picked Brown, but of course, that was never going to be Team USA's situation because the foundation of the team was always going to be guys who already did that, and did that better than Brown.

Which could be said about White in comparison with multiple players on the team. Could be said about guys like Mikal Bridges or Paul George. Herb Jones if we emphasise defence more than shooting volume. Hell, why not KCP. There is not any real reason why Derrick White is the perfect piece to replace Kawhi Leonard.

Where this looks bad for Jaylen is that his instinct was to complain about his teammate being selected over him rather than congratulate that teammate for being selected at all.

Re: slap in the face to choose a lesser stature teammate over Brown. That's clearly how Brown feels, but that doesn't mean Brown's feelings were the intention. If Hill thought choosing White was making Team USA worse than choosing Brown and he did it anyway he should be fired...but typing those words I think makes clear how far-fetched all this sounds. Hill's not trying to sabotage Team USA, and he's not some vulnerable middle manager who needs the pay check. Sure it's possible that the suits at Nike were able to convince him of something untrue about basketball, but quite literally if anyone at Nike tried to make Grant Hill feel like he doesn't know basketball, I think they'd be shown the door pretty quickly.

The idea that every move is designed to maximise their medal chances falls apart the second we remember there are three non-NBA players on the team. Marketing and politics have been an intrinsic element of this going back at least to the Dream Team. That does not mean every snub or selection is dictated by a certain financial interest, but how about we not pretend it is “crackpot” thinking to accuse those long-existing financial interests of being able to put their thumb on the scale.

Jaylen can be understandably mad, and we can be understandably unsympathetic about a feud started when his buddy faced financial backlash for publicising ignorant beliefs.

[itsxtray]

Quick thought on the exhibition match: it’s really jarring how much the difference in officiating can affect the game and certain players in particular. Embiid’s game seems to depend on the crazy whistles that he gets in the NBA. No where near as effective under FIBA rules.

People had the same criticisms of Harden, and yet he killed it in FIBA. Let's not make such judgments after one game, especially when it was that guy's first ever FIBA game. Also, matchups matter. We know AD can't guard Jokic and the bigger centers; Embiid will be most valuable in those situations.

[Slava]

Embiid is very much out of shape to be playing now and he’s going to either injure himself or someone else, like Dwight Powell yesterday.

[Colbinii]

The idea that every move is designed to maximise their medal chances falls apart the second we remember there are three non-NBA players on the team.

Who? The Olympic Roster has 12 players.

[jalengreen]

Referring to Galloway, Potter, Hayes-Davis I assume? Not actually on the team, just members of the Select team who stuck around for longer (everyone else left after camp ended)

[jalengreen]

Should be noted that Grant Hill doesn’t have full discretion over the roster, as far as we know.

The team was selected by USA Basketball Men’s National Team managing director Grant Hill and approved by the USA Basketball Board of Directors.

People have been claiming that Nike has a lot of influence on Team USA for years. And now you have a star who has been directly and publicly critical of the company being left off the team… naturally gonna lead to these questions.

Agree that it’s a bad look for him to complain like this anyway, and ultimately White is a good player and Brown’s not a top tier superstar or anything so I don’t care *that* much about the snub. What I would say is that Brown is clearly a more sensible replacement for Kawhi. And I think people are people are undermining his value by limiting it to volume scoring. Who was trusted to guard Luka in the NBA Finals? Jaylen Brown. And we saw him doing dirty work in that series, diving for loose balls, etc. There are NBA volume scorers who are capable of providing value in other ways, especially in environments where they need to; look at Devin Booker last time in FIBA.

[Colbinii]

I'm still in the "Jaylen Brown is a Top 50-ish player" camp.

[Dr Positivity]

I can see how Brown would have a gripe considering he's closer to Kawhi in role than White is.

[Colbinii]

Which could be said about White in comparison with multiple players on the team. Could be said about guys like Mikal Bridges or Paul George. Herb Jones if we emphasise defence more than shooting volume. Hell, why not KCP. There is not any real reason why Derrick White is the perfect piece to replace Kawhi Leonard.

Sounds like it was a pivot to a player NOT like Kawhi Leonard.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/usa-basketball-made-call-send-kawhi-leonard-home-best-interest-team-we-had-pivot

"We just felt that we had to pivot, and not to get into the particulars in terms of what went into the decision, but we just felt it was in our best interest, but also in the Clippers' and Kawhi's best interest, to move into a different direction," he said.

"We tried. I think we all tried, and we gave it a valiant effort, and unfortunately, we have to move forward."

When pressed further about the decision-making, Hill confirmed that USA Basketball had made the call to send Leonard home.

"We did. Ultimately, he was sent home, but we were in conversation with the Clippers on that."

I can see how Brown would have a gripe considering he's closer to Kawhi in role than White is.

Yeah, but it sounds like the rationale for Team USA was they wanted a player(s) who was less like Kawhi Leonard.

And guess what, it makes sense. ANT/LeBron/Curry/Durant/Embiid/Booker are all better volume scorers than Jaylen Brown.

[AEnigma]

My reading of that is nothing along the lines of a scenario where they assess Kawhi and think, “You know what, this does not work, we need a guard instead.”

[jalengreen]

I thought it was pretty clear that the whole Kawhi thing had to do with injury? Clippers likely didn’t want him to play (because he’s chronically hurt), and with KD already hurt (minor injury but still), I don’t think it took Team USA much convincing that they don’t want to have an already hurt guy who they’ll have to worry about. So I agree that they wanted somebody less like Kawhi, as in someone whos health isn’t as much of a concern - not someone who plays basketball less like him. Doubt that was the problem here.

[Colbinii]

My reading of that is nothing along the lines of a scenario where they assess Kawhi and think, “You know what, this does not work, we need a guard instead.”

I assume they picked the next best player/fit and landed on Derrick White.

[Colbinii]

I thought it was pretty clear that the whole Kawhi thing had to do with injury? Clippers likely didn’t want him to play (because he’s chronically hurt), and with KD already hurt (minor injury but still), I don’t think it took Team USA much convincing that they don’t want to have an already hurt guy who they’ll have to worry about. So I agree that they wanted somebody less like Kawhi, as in someone whos health isn’t as much of a concern - not someone who plays basketball less like him. Doubt that was the problem here.

Sure--so why did they pick White instead of Brown?

1) He is a better fit
2) He is a better player
3) Nike!