RealGM Top 100 List -- 2011

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Nairobi
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#801 » by Nairobi » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:49 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
Nairobi wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
It just so happens that the Celtics' current PG is a similar player to Cousy ... and Rondo is superior to him in almost every aspect of the game, their strengths and weaknesses alike. Rondo is a better dribbler and passer, a better shooter, a much better rebounder, and a much better defender.


So, how do you know this, @ the bolded?

Cousy wouldn't even be an average starter today


And how do you know this?


it's all an opinion


Ok, that's all I needed to hear 8-)
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#802 » by EArl » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:45 pm

When will you guys be doing another one of these again?
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#803 » by theFRANCHISE » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:10 pm

pau gasol ahead of dennis rodman and james worthy? McGrady ahead of all 3?
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#804 » by HeartBreakKid » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:21 pm

theFRANCHISE wrote:pau gasol ahead of dennis rodman and james worthy? McGrady ahead of all 3?

Implying that those guys are better than Mcgrady.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#805 » by penbeast0 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:45 pm

When this one start to feel out of date as people like LeBron move up the ladder, someone will feel motivated to start another. It's a good off-season project. Note that you don't have to be a mod to do this; you want to put in the work, we will sticky it for you but don't start it unless you have the time and patience to carry through.

You can always do a smaller one like top 10 at each position or each decade, there are multiple threads like that almost every year.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#806 » by Durins Baynes » Thu Sep 5, 2013 12:04 pm

It looks like you need preferential voting next time you do this- use the same system you used for the RPOY project, that way you'll be ensuring the vote actually reflects the majority position.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#807 » by JimmyTD3 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:41 pm

Nairobi wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
Nairobi wrote:
So, how do you know this, @ the bolded?



And how do you know this?


it's all an opinion


Ok, that's all I needed to hear 8-)


How do you know that this isn't true?
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#808 » by mopper8 » Sat Oct 5, 2013 8:27 pm

penbeast0 wrote:When this one start to feel out of date as people like LeBron move up the ladder, someone will feel motivated to start another. It's a good off-season project. Note that you don't have to be a mod to do this; you want to put in the work, we will sticky it for you but don't start it unless you have the time and patience to carry through.

You can always do a smaller one like top 10 at each position or each decade, there are multiple threads like that almost every year.


Crazy what a difference a couple years makes. Lebron was in the late teens in 2011, and I think you could credibly argue him in the top 5 at this point.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#809 » by Durins Baynes » Sat Oct 5, 2013 10:46 pm

I doubt Duncan is going to finish as low as 8th next time around either.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#810 » by therealbig3 » Sun Oct 6, 2013 1:02 am

Durins Baynes wrote:I doubt Duncan is going to finish as low as 8th next time around either.


Jordan, Russell, Kareem, Shaq, Magic, and Hakeem would probably rank ahead of him. So I could only see him moving up one spot at most. And you also have arguable cases for guys like Wilt, LeBron, and Bird.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#811 » by Durins Baynes » Sun Oct 6, 2013 1:06 am

Hakeem didn't rank ahead of him last time, so why on earth would that change this time, when Duncan has more on his career (including a resurgent 2013 season in which he was the best player on a team who almost won it all).

Nor do I think the sentiment has shifted in Hakeem's favour. Here's a thread I started recently about where Duncan should be ranked all time- 58% have him top 7 (and 21% of those have him top 5).
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1271372&start=45
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#812 » by mopper8 » Sun Oct 6, 2013 1:14 am

Yeah I think both Duncan and Lebron probably end up in the top-7 if it's done today.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#813 » by Durins Baynes » Sun Oct 6, 2013 1:31 am

I'd say Kobe drops at least 1 spot too thanks to Lebron, maybe more. I had a thread on it which certainly confirmed my feeling about this:
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1270862&start=135
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#814 » by MisterHibachi » Wed Oct 9, 2013 1:01 am

I think if done today the top 5 stays the same, but from there it goes:

6. Duncan 7. LeBron/Shaq 9. Bird 10. Hakeem with Kobe getting bumped out.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#815 » by Durins Baynes » Wed Oct 9, 2013 4:25 am

I think there's no question the tide has turned against Wilt. Where he was voted last time seems inexplicable, and when you go and read the threads it's obvious that the vote for him doesn't reflect any real belief in where he and Bird should be, just a kind of "but Bird/Magic and Bill/Wilt were rivals, so how can they be so far apart?" sentiment. I don't see many people taking Bird or Wilt ahead of Duncan, and I love Bird.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#816 » by HeartBreakKid » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:42 pm

penbeast0 wrote:When this one start to feel out of date as people like LeBron move up the ladder, someone will feel motivated to start another. It's a good off-season project. Note that you don't have to be a mod to do this; you want to put in the work, we will sticky it for you but don't start it unless you have the time and patience to carry through.

You can always do a smaller one like top 10 at each position or each decade, there are multiple threads like that almost every year.

I think we should bring this back after this years season. I think every 3 years is a nice time for opinions to fester and develop.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#817 » by John Thomas » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:15 am

I don't understand why Wilt is rated out of the top 5
Maybe someone can reply with a comprehensive argument :)
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#818 » by Durins Baynes » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:26 am

He's probably too high at 5. Just bizarre that he's between Magic and Bird... like everyone said "hey, wait, we can't let Wilt fall too far from his 'rival' Bill Russell", then made the same decision about Bird, even though the arguments for those guys being quite that high didn't stack up.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#819 » by mopper8 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:01 pm

John Thomas wrote:I don't understand why Wilt is rated out of the top 5
Maybe someone can reply with a comprehensive argument :)


He never developed a consistent identity as a player, and there's some statistical support for the idea that a lot times the approaches he took didn't help his team as much as you'd expect from his raw stats. In a lot of his high scoring years his team offense wasn't that spectacular, which might make you think he was stat padding. His defense focus was come-and-go, and he clashed with a lot of his coaches. He had an article ripping his coach one year that come out right before the season started, essentially sabotaging the team before the year had even started. Obviously another player--Russell--dominated the decade in terms of team success, while Wilt was somewhat nomadic as far as superstars go.

I think there's a general (though not necessarily universal) agreement that when Wilt was right, he was better than anyone else of his day. But there are a lot of factors that cut against him, enough that, when you're comparing him to the very best ever, you might rank him lower than you'd expect to rank him at first blush. He's very similar to Shaq in that manner.

A lot of these guys have more blemishes on their career resumes than is commonly admitted, and sometimes it's a matter of what you make of those blemishes. Bird and Magic have longevity issues (and Bird had some bad playoff performances), e.g., and Shaq's defensive effort and conditioning varied pretty wildly from season-to-season. For some people Shaq's blemishes are a bigger deal than Wilt's/Bird's, for others it's Wilt's that stand out, etc. Even a guy like Kareem arguably has some blemishes on his resume. Same with Jordan.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 

Post#820 » by ThaRegul8r » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:37 am

mopper8 wrote:A lot of these guys have more blemishes on their career resumes than is commonly admitted, and sometimes it's a matter of what you make of those blemishes. Bird and Magic have longevity issues (and Bird had some bad playoff performances), e.g., and Shaq's defensive effort and conditioning varied pretty wildly from season-to-season. For some people Shaq's blemishes are a bigger deal than Wilt's/Bird's, for others it's Wilt's that stand out, etc. Even a guy like Kareem arguably has some blemishes on his resume. Same with Jordan.


There 's not one player something can't be said about. People generally pick and choose according to the agenda.
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