2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[Heej]

Giannis is getting really underrated this season. I think people should look into more context with how much resources it takes to slow him down - that's not to mention he actually can still score even against defenses stacked in the paint. He was destroying Miami before he hurt himself.

The injury itself might be a good reason to peg him, but this idea that he is some faux star and playoff fodder is ridiculously premature and not really based in reality. He did not do any worse against Miami than Davis did in his last series as a Pelican against GSW ( exact same ranked defense as Miami, and both have the ability to ramp it up in the post season). Actually, Giannis' numbers are better...

I almost feel bad that Giannis might get kicked out of the top 5 - with guys like Jimmy Butler getting possible mentions?! Jimmy Butler over Giannis in 2020!? I love Jimmy Butler and was very indifferent toward Giannis for both his MVP seasons...but good is good to me. I'm surprised nobody has considered Jamal Murray over Giannis at this point.

I think we might be getting to a point where people are over valueing jump shooting in the face of every other aspect of the game. I say this as the best player in the league (LBJ) isn't much of a jump shooter at all this season, if he wasn't so dominant people would say that he sucks because he can't shoot also.

Oh really? What numbers. Please show me what these numbers are instead of talking completely out of your ass and acting like it's a god given fact that Giannis and AD had the exact same production vs similar defenses.

AD:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2018-nba-western-conference-semifinals-pelicans-vs-warriors.html
28/15/2/2/2 on 53% TS and a 22 GmSc

Giannis:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2020-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-heat-vs-bucks.html
22/11/5/1/1 on 55% TS and 18 GmSc

Why do you feel the need to just say something you clearly haven't bothered looking into just to push a foolish agenda? Why is it so difficult for you to acknowledge that the playoffs have markedly diverged from the regular season to a degree we've never quite seen in NBA history? What's so hard to understand about a guy having only one pitch being easier to figure out with specialized gameplanning?

I'm sure you're annoyed about all the unnecessary Giannis slander, but I'm even more annoyed by his defenders having to completely lie about Giannis and ADs postseason flameouts to make it look like there's no logic in considering AD the guy that's more built for the playoffs.

Yo, is this real? I legitimately just clicked on this.

Spoiler:

Wait.


So - all you literally did is just go on their 2nd round stats, and copypasta their statline

You basically think that I just said this without EVER looking it up myself? Like...what? I am actually floored on how stupid you must think I am. I mean are you going to tell me next that Lebron James lead the league in assist? You really think I don't know their statlines?

Okay, well, now that that is out of the way - let me walk you through this since you think "I am talking out of my ass".


GIANNIS STATS ARE CLEARLY BETTER. are you BLIND? - at very least they are EQUAL. You literally just proved my point. The only difference is Anthony Davis points are higher BECAUSE HE PLAYED 11 MORE MINUTES. Holy ****. If you literally took two seconds to look at those stats you would have seen that instead of looking at their points per game.

Anthony Davis is even more TURNOVER prone than Giannis during this series and that is one of Davis best attribute - he is more turnover prone DESPITE Giannis more than doubling Davis' APG. On top of that Giannis is more efficient, and the only reason why he averages less PPG is because Mike Budenholzer played him too few minutes earlier in the series and he got injured very early in a game where he was destroying the Heat.

He has 2.5x more assist, less turnovers, higher TS%, and scored at a higher rate than Anthony Davis against a defense that had the same exact ranking. Yeah, I think they're pretty damn comparable at the very least in the post season.


Please do not ever tell someone "they are talking out of their ass" and be so smug again. Thank you.


So unless you're going to be stubborn and say minutes per game do not matter - now do you admit that Davis didn't do any better when he didn't have the best player of all time as his partner? Or is Davis "more resilient" against playoff defenses?

Lmao AD also doubled up Giannis in steals and blocks too but those don't matter I suppose. Especially in a series where Giannis' defensive impact was noticeably absent and much of the talk was about Giannis being taken out of the action, and then not actually doing all that well against Butler when he was put on him.

And it's amazing to me that you consider these to be anywhere near the same caliber of defense when theyre playing a version of the Warriors that cruised through the regular season and turned into the most dominant defensive team in the playoffs. Compare that to a team playing defensive stalwarts such as Tyler Herro, Kelly Olynyk, and Duncan Robinson as part of their main rotation. Give me a break. It's disingenuous at best to suggest they were the same caliber of defense just because they were both ranked 11th (and conveniently ignoring that Miami's Drtg was 2 points higher LMFAO).

Frankly, it's a little embarrassing that you would think that this is even a valid take to have considering what we know about both teams' disparity between regular season play and playoff play. I mean for God's sake man, Miami is ranked 7th in Drtg these playoffs with around a 110 while playing offensive juggernauts such as the banged up Pacers, Kawhi-less Raptors, and injured Celtics vs the Warriors clocking in at #1 and a 103 DRtg. And this is why you're just talking out of your ass in my book.

Using all these disingenuous arguments and false equivalencies to prop up your guy. And you know what, I have no problem saying that their stats are comparable now although I think ADs is still better considering he was clearly a more important defensive player in their series. But the fact of the matter is these are still numbers being put up against two completely different calibers of teams. So no, I'm sorry but if anything this says more to me that AD is a better and more resilient playoff performer cuz he was having a better series vs a far better opponent while running with a far worse supporting cast. This is two years now of Giannis not figuring out an overloaded defense that gets back in transition. You're never seeing people say stuff like this about AD lol point blank

[RCM88x]

As great as ADs been in the playoffs, Giannis is still a head of him in my eyes. Just so far superior in the regular season. And honestly he was pretty darn good in the playoffs before he got hurt. Sure his team wasn't dominant but I don't think the majority of that is on him.

Unless LeBron gets hurt and AD wills the Lakers past the Heat I don't think there's really anything he can do to close the gap.

[HeartBreakKid]

Oh really? What numbers. Please show me what these numbers are instead of talking completely out of your ass and acting like it's a god given fact that Giannis and AD had the exact same production vs similar defenses.

AD:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2018-nba-western-conference-semifinals-pelicans-vs-warriors.html
28/15/2/2/2 on 53% TS and a 22 GmSc

Giannis:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2020-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-heat-vs-bucks.html
22/11/5/1/1 on 55% TS and 18 GmSc

Why do you feel the need to just say something you clearly haven't bothered looking into just to push a foolish agenda? Why is it so difficult for you to acknowledge that the playoffs have markedly diverged from the regular season to a degree we've never quite seen in NBA history? What's so hard to understand about a guy having only one pitch being easier to figure out with specialized gameplanning?

I'm sure you're annoyed about all the unnecessary Giannis slander, but I'm even more annoyed by his defenders having to completely lie about Giannis and ADs postseason flameouts to make it look like there's no logic in considering AD the guy that's more built for the playoffs.

Yo, is this real? I legitimately just clicked on this.

Spoiler:

Wait.


So - all you literally did is just go on their 2nd round stats, and copypasta their statline

You basically think that I just said this without EVER looking it up myself? Like...what? I am actually floored on how stupid you must think I am. I mean are you going to tell me next that Lebron James lead the league in assist? You really think I don't know their statlines?

Okay, well, now that that is out of the way - let me walk you through this since you think "I am talking out of my ass".


GIANNIS STATS ARE CLEARLY BETTER. are you BLIND? - at very least they are EQUAL. You literally just proved my point. The only difference is Anthony Davis points are higher BECAUSE HE PLAYED 11 MORE MINUTES. Holy ****. If you literally took two seconds to look at those stats you would have seen that instead of looking at their points per game.

Anthony Davis is even more TURNOVER prone than Giannis during this series and that is one of Davis best attribute - he is more turnover prone DESPITE Giannis more than doubling Davis' APG. On top of that Giannis is more efficient, and the only reason why he averages less PPG is because Mike Budenholzer played him too few minutes earlier in the series and he got injured very early in a game where he was destroying the Heat.

He has 2.5x more assist, less turnovers, higher TS%, and scored at a higher rate than Anthony Davis against a defense that had the same exact ranking. Yeah, I think they're pretty damn comparable at the very least in the post season.


Please do not ever tell someone "they are talking out of their ass" and be so smug again. Thank you. I still cannot believe that you posted their statlines and somehow missed that one guy played 40 minutes per game and the other guy played less than 30. (and still has comparable stats lol) Unbelievable.


So unless you're going to be stubborn and say minutes per game do not matter - now do you admit that Davis didn't do any better when he didn't have the best player of all time as his partner? Or is Davis "more resilient" against playoff defenses?

I mean, a pretty strong argument against Giannis is that he CAN'T play 40 mpg in the playoffs like AD. MVP Giannis maxed out at 34 mpg in the playoffs last year, and was at 33 mpg this year before he got hurt.

His stamina while maintaining MVP-level play is questionable. He himself was asking to get taken out of playoff games because he was getting winded.

No, we do know that Giannis can play 40 minutes. He averaged 35-37 minutes per game when he played with Jason Kidd for several seasons in a row, and was more healthy during that span than Anthony Davis was in those same years. (by a lot) Three season sample size.

One of the biggest criticisms for Mike Budenholzer is that he plays Giannis too little minutes. And regardless, there is a massive difference between 29.7 minutes and 34 minutes per game. We may as well say Manu Ginobili isn't as good of a scorer as *insert some guy who plays more minutes than him*





And the second point is that that is actually entering strawman territory. We are talking about Giannis inability to score against defenses not his stamina. Giannis stats are more efficient in nearly every single way - so changing it to "Well, Davis is better because he has more stamina" is pivoting the argument. (also this argument is kind of crazy because we have seen Anthony Davis gas this very post season against the Denver Nuggets, and he also is less durable than Giannis)

But yeah,I predict the Lebron James guy who is too lazy to look at their MPG will probably play the "Giannis can't play that many minutes" card anyway.

[yoyoboy]

If you’re not willing to lend any criticism whatsoever to Giannis for his role in why the Bucks have underperformed these past 2 postseasons (and done so massively this year) then there’s really no conversation to have here at all to be honest.

[HeartBreakKid]

If you’re not willing to lend any criticism whatsoever to Giannis for his role in why the Bucks have underperformed these past 2 postseasons (and done so massively this year) then there’s really no conversation to have here at all to be honest.

I am talking about contextualizing how good he was (or bad). Why is my take so crazy when what I basically said is

+ Pair Giannis with another star he looks better. Is that ACTUALLY something you disagree with?

+ He put up similar stats against a similarly rated defense that Anthony Davis did when he was a Pelican. Is that ACTUALLY something you disagree with?

Everything else is only "pro" Giannis because that is the nature of how arguments work. Him and Anthony Davis are being HELD to different standards - so if I can be damned for not critisizng why Giannis has "held back the Bucks" why can't people admit that Anthony Davis is having the success he has because he is playing with Lebron James?

Why is this such an extreme take, but basically saying Giannis "can't score" against playoff defense is? Or that he is "easy" to guard? Those things are factually incorrect. Do you really think Duncan-Robinson and Andre Iggy are going to be like yeah, Giannis is no problem?



And the Bucks are the reincarnation of the late 2000 Cavs. There is nothing special about them, they are designed to be regular season darlings. Winning an NBA title when you are the sole star is hard as hell - Kawhi Leonard got bumped in the same damn round and he has WAY more offensive talent, but hey, Kawhi Leonard can shoot so it's all good.

[therealbig3]

Yo, is this real? I legitimately just clicked on this.

Spoiler:

Wait.


So - all you literally did is just go on their 2nd round stats, and copypasta their statline

You basically think that I just said this without EVER looking it up myself? Like...what? I am actually floored on how stupid you must think I am. I mean are you going to tell me next that Lebron James lead the league in assist? You really think I don't know their statlines?

Okay, well, now that that is out of the way - let me walk you through this since you think "I am talking out of my ass".


GIANNIS STATS ARE CLEARLY BETTER. are you BLIND? - at very least they are EQUAL. You literally just proved my point. The only difference is Anthony Davis points are higher BECAUSE HE PLAYED 11 MORE MINUTES. Holy ****. If you literally took two seconds to look at those stats you would have seen that instead of looking at their points per game.

Anthony Davis is even more TURNOVER prone than Giannis during this series and that is one of Davis best attribute - he is more turnover prone DESPITE Giannis more than doubling Davis' APG. On top of that Giannis is more efficient, and the only reason why he averages less PPG is because Mike Budenholzer played him too few minutes earlier in the series and he got injured very early in a game where he was destroying the Heat.

He has 2.5x more assist, less turnovers, higher TS%, and scored at a higher rate than Anthony Davis against a defense that had the same exact ranking. Yeah, I think they're pretty damn comparable at the very least in the post season.


Please do not ever tell someone "they are talking out of their ass" and be so smug again. Thank you. I still cannot believe that you posted their statlines and somehow missed that one guy played 40 minutes per game and the other guy played less than 30. (and still has comparable stats lol) Unbelievable.


So unless you're going to be stubborn and say minutes per game do not matter - now do you admit that Davis didn't do any better when he didn't have the best player of all time as his partner? Or is Davis "more resilient" against playoff defenses?

I mean, a pretty strong argument against Giannis is that he CAN'T play 40 mpg in the playoffs like AD. MVP Giannis maxed out at 34 mpg in the playoffs last year, and was at 33 mpg this year before he got hurt.

His stamina while maintaining MVP-level play is questionable. He himself was asking to get taken out of playoff games because he was getting winded.

No, we do know that Giannis can play 40 minutes. He averaged 35-37 minutes per game when he played with Jason Kidd for several seasons in a row, and was more healthy during that span than Anthony Davis was in those same years. (by a lot) Three season sample size.

One of the biggest criticisms for Mike Budenholzer is that he plays Giannis too little minutes. And regardless, there is a massive difference between 29.7 minutes and 34 minutes per game. We may as well say Manu Ginobili isn't as good of a scorer as *insert some guy who plays more minutes than him*





And the second point is that that is actually entering strawman territory. We are talking about Giannis inability to score against defenses not his stamina. Giannis stats are more efficient in nearly every single way - so changing it to "Well, Davis is better because he has more stamina" is pivoting the argument. (also this argument is kind of crazy because we have seen Anthony Davis gas this very post season against the Denver Nuggets, and he also is less durable than Giannis)

But yeah,I predict the Lebron James guy who is too lazy to look at their MPG will probably play the "Giannis can't play that many minutes" card anyway.

Alright, hostility aside, you clearly didn't see that I wrote MVP Giannis...meaning not the Giannis that played for Kidd. That Giannis wasn't close to as good as the Anthony Davis we're seeing right now, so he's not relevant to the conversation.

I'm mainly responding to your point about how of course Giannis had less volume stats, he played way less minutes! Well, Giannis hasn't proved that he can play 40 minutes like AD can before getting too tired, AND still play like the best player in the game (so again, not pre-2019 Giannis).

Davis averaged 38 mpg against Denver...

[HeartBreakKid]

I mean, a pretty strong argument against Giannis is that he CAN'T play 40 mpg in the playoffs like AD. MVP Giannis maxed out at 34 mpg in the playoffs last year, and was at 33 mpg this year before he got hurt.

His stamina while maintaining MVP-level play is questionable. He himself was asking to get taken out of playoff games because he was getting winded.

No, we do know that Giannis can play 40 minutes. He averaged 35-37 minutes per game when he played with Jason Kidd for several seasons in a row, and was more healthy during that span than Anthony Davis was in those same years. (by a lot) Three season sample size.

One of the biggest criticisms for Mike Budenholzer is that he plays Giannis too little minutes. And regardless, there is a massive difference between 29.7 minutes and 34 minutes per game. We may as well say Manu Ginobili isn't as good of a scorer as *insert some guy who plays more minutes than him*





And the second point is that that is actually entering strawman territory. We are talking about Giannis inability to score against defenses not his stamina. Giannis stats are more efficient in nearly every single way - so changing it to "Well, Davis is better because he has more stamina" is pivoting the argument. (also this argument is kind of crazy because we have seen Anthony Davis gas this very post season against the Denver Nuggets, and he also is less durable than Giannis)

But yeah,I predict the Lebron James guy who is too lazy to look at their MPG will probably play the "Giannis can't play that many minutes" card anyway.

Alright, hostility aside, you clearly didn't see that I wrote MVP Giannis...meaning not the Giannis that played for Kidd. That Giannis wasn't close to as good as the Anthony Davis we're seeing right now, so he's not relevant to the conversation.

I'm mainly responding to your point about how of course Giannis had less volume stats, he played way less minutes! Well, Giannis hasn't proved that he can play 40 minutes like AD can before getting too tired, AND still play like the best player in the game (so again, not pre-2019 Giannis).

Davis averaged 38 mpg against Denver...

Hm? My posts have been hostile toward Ardee and the LBJ homer - you think I am being hostile toward you in that last post? Maybe you are mixing the tone of my previous post with the one you quoted. That particular post I am just talking ball.


MVP Giannis and non-MVP Giannis are still Giannis. Sometimes I think people forget that different seasons are not different people, also we are using last years sample size against Toronto so why can't we use the Kidd years - it wasn't a long time ago. We already know he can play more minutes, him being an MVP wouldn't make him incapable of doing so.

I am guessing you are implying because Giannis is better it must take more energy for him to do things, and therefore, he cannot play more minutes. That's not really how stamina works in basketball. He is better because he is stronger and more skilled and experienced, not because his motor increased and he has to sit on the bench as a consequence - do you disagree with that?


Davis was gassed against Denver. Him playing 38 minutes per game wouldn't deflect that. If we are saying Giannis cannot play high minutes without getting tired - it seems strange because we have seen Davis play high minutes - and he got tired. That is a double standard, which is my entire point in regards to Davis vs Giannis.

[therealbig3]

No, we do know that Giannis can play 40 minutes. He averaged 35-37 minutes per game when he played with Jason Kidd for several seasons in a row, and was more healthy during that span than Anthony Davis was in those same years. (by a lot) Three season sample size.

One of the biggest criticisms for Mike Budenholzer is that he plays Giannis too little minutes. And regardless, there is a massive difference between 29.7 minutes and 34 minutes per game. We may as well say Manu Ginobili isn't as good of a scorer as *insert some guy who plays more minutes than him*





And the second point is that that is actually entering strawman territory. We are talking about Giannis inability to score against defenses not his stamina. Giannis stats are more efficient in nearly every single way - so changing it to "Well, Davis is better because he has more stamina" is pivoting the argument. (also this argument is kind of crazy because we have seen Anthony Davis gas this very post season against the Denver Nuggets, and he also is less durable than Giannis)

But yeah,I predict the Lebron James guy who is too lazy to look at their MPG will probably play the "Giannis can't play that many minutes" card anyway.

Alright, hostility aside, you clearly didn't see that I wrote MVP Giannis...meaning not the Giannis that played for Kidd. That Giannis wasn't close to as good as the Anthony Davis we're seeing right now, so he's not relevant to the conversation.

I'm mainly responding to your point about how of course Giannis had less volume stats, he played way less minutes! Well, Giannis hasn't proved that he can play 40 minutes like AD can before getting too tired, AND still play like the best player in the game (so again, not pre-2019 Giannis).

Davis averaged 38 mpg against Denver...

Hm? My posts have been hostile toward Ardee and the LBJ homer - you think I am being hostile toward you in that last post? Maybe you are mixing the tone of my previous post with the one you quoted.


MVP Giannis and non-MVP Giannis...are still Giannis. We already know he can play more minutes, him being an MVP wouldn't make him incapable of doing so. I am guessing you are implying because Giannis is better it must take more energy for him to do things, and therefore, he cannot play more minutes. That's not really how stamina works in basketball.


Davis was gassed toward Denver. Him playing 38 minutes per game wouldn't deflect that.

My bad, I must have misread the tone.

My personal opinion about Giannis is that I think what he's been able to do with Bud in Milwaukee is play 30 mpg...but go absolutely balls to the wall in those 30 mpg, and that's why he puts up these monster numbers in such few minutes. But in a playoff situation, where you sometimes need your stars to play 40+ mpg, I'm not sure how well he's able to pace himself and still play at MVP level. I think Davis is able to do that, I think LeBron clearly can do that...I haven't seen Giannis's ability to do that. In fact, I think he was still trying to play at that same breakneck pace, as the transition monster point Giannis...except he was going up against a team that could effectively wall him off, so it was way more difficult, and he was still gassing himself out and couldn't play the big minutes.

I think a big reason for Giannis's leap into 2x MVP and best in the game conversation was Bud turning him into point Giannis and spamming transition and semi-transition as much as possible, and THAT is what doesn't lend itself to the playoffs imo.

In that sense, the amount of time Davis can be on the floor is definitely an advantage, because he doesn't need to play like that in order to have MVP impact.

[HeartBreakKid]

Alright, hostility aside, you clearly didn't see that I wrote MVP Giannis...meaning not the Giannis that played for Kidd. That Giannis wasn't close to as good as the Anthony Davis we're seeing right now, so he's not relevant to the conversation.

I'm mainly responding to your point about how of course Giannis had less volume stats, he played way less minutes! Well, Giannis hasn't proved that he can play 40 minutes like AD can before getting too tired, AND still play like the best player in the game (so again, not pre-2019 Giannis).

Davis averaged 38 mpg against Denver...

Hm? My posts have been hostile toward Ardee and the LBJ homer - you think I am being hostile toward you in that last post? Maybe you are mixing the tone of my previous post with the one you quoted.


MVP Giannis and non-MVP Giannis...are still Giannis. We already know he can play more minutes, him being an MVP wouldn't make him incapable of doing so. I am guessing you are implying because Giannis is better it must take more energy for him to do things, and therefore, he cannot play more minutes. That's not really how stamina works in basketball.


Davis was gassed toward Denver. Him playing 38 minutes per game wouldn't deflect that.

My bad, I must have misread the tone.

My personal opinion about Giannis is that I think what he's been able to do with Bud in Milwaukee is play 30 mpg...but go absolutely balls to the wall in those 30 mpg, and that's why he puts up these monster numbers in such few minutes. But in a playoff situation, where you sometimes need your stars to play 40+ mpg, I'm not sure how well he's able to pace himself and still play at MVP level. I think Davis is able to do that, I think LeBron clearly can do that...I haven't seen Giannis's ability to do that. In fact, I think he was still trying to play at that same breakneck pace, as the transition monster point Giannis...except he was going up against a team that could effectively wall him off, so it was way more difficult, and he was still gassing himself out and couldn't play the big minutes.

I think a big reason for Giannis's leap into 2x MVP and best in the game conversation was Bud turning him into point Giannis and spamming transition and semi-transition as much as possible, and THAT is what doesn't lend itself to the playoffs imo.

In that sense, the amount of time Davis can be on the floor is definitely an advantage, because he doesn't need to play like that in order to have MVP impact.

I just find that very unlikely - because he actually played more like a point guard when he played under Jason Kidd. That would have been more taxing than the style he plays now.

Also, we are talking a 6, even 7 minute difference between under Kidd and Budenholzer. That isn't a minor minute decrease - I find it highly unlikely that when Giannis turned 24 he had to play 30 minutes per game.

There is no way his stamina drops off by that much even if he is playing "harder". I also do not think it is possible for an NBA player to become a superstar by playing harder - they become superstars by playing better.


This also tallies back to coaching and team make up. We already know that Budenholzer isn't a good playoff coach. We know the Bucks are not designed to be a great offense. Davis doesn't need to run the floor with the ball to score - but he would need someone to set him up, which wouldn't exist on the Bucks (they lack playmakers, which is seriously damning for a playoff offense, case and point look at the Clippers).

[Heej]

+ He put up similar stats against a similarly rated defense that Anthony Davis did when he was a Pelican. Is that ACTUALLY something you disagree with?

And the Bucks are the reincarnation of the late 2000 Cavs. There is nothing special about them, they are designed to be regular season darlings. Winning an NBA title when you are the sole star is hard as hell - Kawhi Leonard got bumped in the same damn round and he has WAY more offensive talent, but hey, Kawhi Leonard can shoot so it's all good.

That first statement is pure f***ing cap and I already pointed out why in my last response that you ignored. The only thing similar is they were both ranked 11th in the RS, there's literally no other statistic that points to them being similarly rated. The 2018 Warriors were 2 points better in the RS and 7 points better in the PS.

And let's be honest. The Bucks are a better all-around supporting cast than the late 2000s Cavs lol. Khris Middleton is a better 2-way player than everyone on the Cavs. You're trying way too hard to diminish this team to prop up Giannis.

[GSP]

As great as ADs been in the playoffs, Giannis is still a head of him in my eyes. Just so far superior in the regular season. And honestly he was pretty darn good in the playoffs before he got hurt. Sure his team wasn't dominant but I don't think the majority of that is on him.

Unless LeBron gets hurt and AD wills the Lakers past the Heat I don't think there's really anything he can do to close the gap.

Giannis playoff stats are inflated by the Orlando series. The Magic were missing their 3 best defenders in Isaac, Gordon and Mcw and Isaac/Gordon wouldve been defending Giannis. They werent near their Rs defensive strength without those 3.

And Giannis was bad against Miami as for the majority not being on him Milwaukee played much better with him off the floor basically the whole series.....

[mikejames23]

It's clear the Heat are well outmatched this series. LeBron will win it all at age 35. A great feat. Had an enormously great RS run + was splendid in the playoffs destroying Denver, Houston, etc.

Ran the standard Laker championship build to full success. He's had a mythical playoff run in a full career at this point, equaling one of the Top 5 all time themselves. Couldn't praise LeBron more.

[Heej]

AD is honestly a complete freak. He moves fluidly like a 3.5 in a big man's body. Giannis moves like a 4. The way he just matched up with Butler and swallowed him up on the perimeter, he looked like a Lovecraftian Horror (esp with the braids lol). Like driving into him was like walking into a black hole. I wonder if working with LeBron who moves like a 2.5 in a 4s body and some of his training techniques have improved ADs kinesthetic senses or something. It really feels like he's pieced it all together as a wing/big hybrid. This guy's looking like what a modern Bill Russell would be physically. It's really cool to see. I feel like he's gonna become LeDr. FrankenJames' mutant Pippen monster. Even that pass from the elbow to Dwight under the 2-3 was high level facilitating a la Russell

[MyUniBroDavis]

Playoff davis > mvp giannis > Rs davis > playoff giannis

Alot of it is role for giannis in terms of his underperformance but playoff davis is better and his different

[Dupp]

AD is a walking mismatch. There’s no team he’s not a mismatch for.


However if bam gets back he needs to guard AD. Who cares about Howard.

[MyUniBroDavis]

AD is a walking mismatch. There’s no team he’s not a mismatch for.


However if bam gets back he needs to guard AD. Who cares about Howard.

Its more so they were going 4 wings one center against us, and the rebound advantage would be to big of a deal i feel

Wings on davis arent worse than typical bigs in davis, but i agree bam should be on him

Davis hasnt really been scoring off of creation as much as against the nuggets though

[MisterHibachi]

AD is a walking mismatch. There’s no team he’s not a mismatch for.


However if bam gets back he needs to guard AD. Who cares about Howard.

I think Embiid might be able to guard/outplay him in a series. Maybe Ayton can be a good defensive matchup too. I can't think of many others.

[freethedevil]

Playoff davis > mvp giannis > Rs davis > playoff giannis

Alot of it is role for giannis in terms of his underperformance but playoff davis is better and his different

Uh, no.

MVO giannis was a goat level regular season. Cap.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Playoff davis > mvp giannis > Rs davis > playoff giannis

Alot of it is role for giannis in terms of his underperformance but playoff davis is better and his different

Uh, no.

MVO giannis was a goat level regular season. Cap.

1. Do you think giannis is a different player in the RS and the playoffs?
2. Davis has had a historic playoffs on multiple fronts
3. Do you think if Davis performed like this for a whole regular season, itd be considered as good as well

If davis had a full season playing how he has been, scoring at a near top of the league rate, doing it mostly off of self creation (maybe not during these finals but i mean theyre playing a zone lmao), hitting a TS of 67.0 (which is higher than 2016 curry), while playing elite D overall, heading the best offense (oncourt offrtg is between 2016 and 2017 curry, brons is also good deal below so its not from him) and top 3 defense in the league, would that not be considered as good as Giannis's season? Keep in mind that this lakers team is essentially playing at a 70 win level atm based off of that

Offensively they arent particularly close because giannis still isnt all that great in the half court because of his limited kick out ability, and tendancy to stagnate offense if his initial drive doesnt work. Not to mention davis is substantially more effecient and not in a 5 out system based on him getting easy iso looks with an open paint. Not to mention things like spacing and scoring versatility too.

So its if the defensive gap of regular season giannis is better than playoff ADs defense by a larger gap than the offensive one, which obviously isnt a foregone conclusion

[MyUniBroDavis]

AD is a walking mismatch. There’s no team he’s not a mismatch for.


However if bam gets back he needs to guard AD. Who cares about Howard.

I think Embiid might be able to guard/outplay him in a series. Maybe Ayton can be a good defensive matchup too. I can't think of many others.

I dont know if embiid can guard current AD, at least this form of him because he looks way better than before, but yeah i doibt as can guard embiid embiid actually a monster 1v1

That being said theres a reason embiid isnt a top 5 guy