The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1)

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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#821 » by StepBackCrack » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:20 pm

KD35Brah wrote:
Wall34 wrote:
KD35Brah wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/6hc6ae/kevin_durant_is_the_most_efficient_scorer_in_nba/



Woah that's informative so i guess he wasn't just making "wide open" shots all series. I swear haters will say anything :lol:

Anything to discredit him. His scoring has always been seen as "effortless", so when ppl saw him scoring all those points they gave full credit to his team.

Everything he does from now on will be discredited and downplayed, this is how it's going to be for the rest of his career I guess.


Many people were desperately hoping he doesn't finals MVP but too bad for them he peaked and was arguably the best player in the series. He is getting credit from the media for his historic finals performance at least which is more important than realGM of course. He can live with that I'm sure.
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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#822 » by StepBackCrack » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:28 pm

Last year he was underrated by the media but they can't ignore him anymore after such great playoffs performance from him and his defensive improvement in general. I believe he would have been picked first-team all NBA if not for his injury. He got 2nd team despite missing so many games. Before this season, his defense wasn't as great as this season but it was still underrated imo. He wasn't getting enough credit for it.
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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#823 » by bballexpert » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:55 pm

KD_Steph wrote:Last year he was underrated by the media but they can't ignore him anymore after such great playoffs performance from him and his defensive improvement in general. I believe he would have been picked first-team all NBA if not for his injury. He got 2nd team despite missing so many games. Before this season, his defense wasn't as great as this season but it was still underrated imo. He wasn't getting enough credit for it.


What cracks me up is when Durant had better scoring series in 2012 but Lebron team was better and preformed better I did not see anyone trying talk down Lebron and say Durant needed help. So this time he plays against Lebron with better team and Durant out scores him on better efficiency has best gs of all time behind shaq plays better d yet people try to take it away.
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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#824 » by StepBackCrack » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:34 am

bballexpert wrote:
KD_Steph wrote:Last year he was underrated by the media but they can't ignore him anymore after such great playoffs performance from him and his defensive improvement in general. I believe he would have been picked first-team all NBA if not for his injury. He got 2nd team despite missing so many games. Before this season, his defense wasn't as great as this season but it was still underrated imo. He wasn't getting enough credit for it.


What cracks me up is when Durant had better scoring series in 2012 but Lebron team was better and preformed better I did not see anyone trying talk down Lebron and say Durant needed help. So this time he plays against Lebron with better team and Durant out scores him on better efficiency has best gs of all time behind shaq plays better d yet people try to take it away.


Yup. 27 peaking LBJ with better help should be beating 23 old KD with a way less experienced team, less talented team overall (at that point), worse fit between their players and inferior coaching. That said, the difference in their age was a biggest deal since LBJ was fully developed as a player unlike Durant who was still improving. Same with Russ and Harden who were also very young. Wade was in his prime and someone who already knows what it takes to win at the biggest stage. That makes a huge difference. Bosh was in his prime as well with much more experience than OKC's young players. So yes, LBJ had better help in terms of things that are other than pure talent such as experience, age, coaching, player fit. If Durant was 27 back then and Russ 27, they would be evenly matched. That's why age and experience was a big deal. LBJ was beyond amazing and won as he should. This finals is kinda of a reverse since KD is the one who is supposed to win. Current Durant is the best Durant no doubt about that and he was expected to win this year's finals. He didn't only do that but he has done so showing his best performance ever and arguably the best performance in the series. That matters a lot and it's why he deserves credit for this win. His performance is more important than the win itself really. The pressure on him to play as great as he did was huge. If he played average, he would be seen as someone who just hopped on the bandwagon. However, with his great finals performance, he is seen by the media as the best player on the best team and the main reason they won. Huge difference. Also that clutch performance in game 3 was so important for him to get credit. Biggest play in his career so far.
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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#825 » by KD35Brah » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:30 am

Read on Twitter



What's harder to quantify is the number of shots Durant altered by closing out on shooters, something Korver experienced firsthand. "Even if Durant just makes you shoot a little faster than you want to, that's great defense,'' Korver says.

And Durant continued to flex his defensive muscles in the postseason. Opponents shot a measly 44.8 percent at the rim with KD contesting (a number that was only 41 percent through Game 3). There are 24 players who contested at least 50 shots at the rim in the 2017 playoffs. The only players with better success rates than Durant were Toronto's Serge Ibaka (40 percent) and Jonas Valanciunas (43.7). By way of comparison, consider the numbers of other notable postseason rim protectors: Green (45 percent), Rudy Gobert (46.3 percent), LeBron (53 percent) and DeAndre Jordan (58.9 percent).

To put it another way, when Durant is in the vicinity, opponents miss an astonishing 55 percent of their layups
.

Now that Durant has a ring and a Finals MVP trophy, Green says no one should be surprised if Durant sets his sights on some defensive hardware next season. Adams says he'd be delighted if defense turns out to be Durant's primary focus in 2017-18 and would bet the house on the results.
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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#826 » by bballexpert » Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:23 am

KD_Steph wrote:
bballexpert wrote:
KD_Steph wrote:Last year he was underrated by the media but they can't ignore him anymore after such great playoffs performance from him and his defensive improvement in general. I believe he would have been picked first-team all NBA if not for his injury. He got 2nd team despite missing so many games. Before this season, his defense wasn't as great as this season but it was still underrated imo. He wasn't getting enough credit for it.


What cracks me up is when Durant had better scoring series in 2012 but Lebron team was better and preformed better I did not see anyone trying talk down Lebron and say Durant needed help. So this time he plays against Lebron with better team and Durant out scores him on better efficiency has best gs of all time behind shaq plays better d yet people try to take it away.


Yup. 27 peaking LBJ with better help should be beating 23 old KD with a way less experienced team, less talented team overall (at that point), worse fit between their players and inferior coaching. That said, the difference in their age was a biggest deal since LBJ was fully developed as a player unlike Durant who was still improving. Same with Russ and Harden who were also very young. Wade was in his prime and someone who already knows what it takes to win at the biggest stage. That makes a huge difference. Bosh was in his prime as well with much more experience than OKC's young players. So yes, LBJ had better help in terms of things that are other than pure talent such as experience, age, coaching, player fit. If Durant was 27 back then and Russ 27, they would be evenly matched. That's why age and experience was a big deal. LBJ was beyond amazing and won as he should. This finals is kinda of a reverse since KD is the one who is supposed to win. Current Durant is the best Durant no doubt about that and he was expected to win this year's finals. He didn't only do that but he has done so showing his best performance ever and arguably the best performance in the series. That matters a lot and it's why he deserves credit for this win. His performance is more important than the win itself really. The pressure on him to play as great as he did was huge. If he played average, he would be seen as someone who just hopped on the bandwagon. However, with his great finals performance, he is seen by the media as the best player on the best team and the main reason they won. Huge difference. Also that clutch performance in game 3 was so important for him to get credit. Biggest play in his career so far.


Yea I am just kind of getting sick of people trying to downplay how dominate KD was this series. I mean were talking about Lebron in the finales and they try to glaze over KD having best scoring finales ever they say Curry any person could do it and I just have to roll my eyes at it. Ok explain to me why Thompson a great shooter never went off like that next to Curry. Not to mention KD last finales was crazy scoring and that was young Durant doing it. Real gm is biggest number whores out of any site I have been on you think looking at what KD did during those games would wow them because all his stats are **** godly.
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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#827 » by GSP » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:15 am

Do u guys consider 17 Kds peak so far? Dont think hes hit his true peak yet but from this point

I think u could make a case he was the best player in 14, 16 or 17
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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#828 » by StepBackCrack » Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:43 am

GSP wrote:Do u guys consider 17 Kds peak so far? Dont think hes hit his true peak yet but from this point

I think u could make a case he was the best player in 14, 16 or 17


Yeah I think 17 KD is his peak. I'm not sure that he has an even higher gear tbh. :lol: That would be beyond unfair lol. I think GSW helped him max his potential this season. I don't think he was maxed in OKC apart from his 14 where he went all out with no Russ in the lineup. His scoring and playmaking potential was showing fully during that hot MVP run. He has learned a lot with GSW already and he can still go off at any time. Not saying he can't improve even more next season but I think he reached his peak in the finals. His game looks pretty complete to me. The question is whether he shows that peak level of play more often from now on or not next season.
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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#829 » by StepBackCrack » Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:45 am

GSP wrote:Do u guys consider 17 Kds peak so far? Dont think hes hit his true peak yet but from this point

I think u could make a case he was the best player in 14, 16 or 17


What you suggested about him operating in the high/midpost more next season could make his 2018 better. Not sure GSW will go with that tho. We will see.
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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#830 » by RSCD3_ » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:47 am

I think the data tracking on contested shots is still a bit too rudimentary to draw conclusions about defensive pressure. He was contested but his absurdly high release is a lot less contested than say steph at the same distance


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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#831 » by KD35Brah » Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:18 pm

GSP wrote:Do u guys consider 17 Kds peak so far? Dont think hes hit his true peak yet but from this point

I think u could make a case he was the best player in 14, 16 or 17

I would take 17 as his peak. I think he can get better defensively and offensively. It depends on how Kerr uses him from here on out. Really hoping for more post action and pindowns.

Probably have it as 17, 16, 14, 13, 12.
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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#832 » by MisterHibachi » Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:28 pm

I don't see a big difference between 16 and 17.
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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#833 » by GSP » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:48 pm

KD_Steph wrote:
GSP wrote:Do u guys consider 17 Kds peak so far? Dont think hes hit his true peak yet but from this point

I think u could make a case he was the best player in 14, 16 or 17


What you suggested about him operating in the high/midpost more next season could make his 2018 better. Not sure GSW will go with that tho. We will see.


In the Bill Simmons podcast he said hes gonna work on his flexibility for offbalance shots so maybe he might be more in the post. He really should be. Its crazy he hasnt been, his playmaking is by far at its best there. He can see the defenses much better, his high dribble isnt as much of a problem as on the perimeter, he has that wirey strength now and he can develop into Dirk 2.0 from 08-11 as far as his postgame. Kd is their best post player ITO scoring (and has been near the top of the league in Ppp a few times) and playmaking easily (tho outside of Livingston and West they dont really have any post players) and they have enough perimeter playmakers/creators with Steph, Iggy and Draymond

i think more time there would considerably increase his offensive impact
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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#834 » by lolathon234 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:55 pm

As the Durant & LeBron debate is likely to become a frequent topic over the next year, I actually wanted to point out something here in regards to KD's inability to create at a high level. I'm going to post a few ideas/some stat digging I spent some time on a few weeks back. I plan to do a far more in depth study(as I did with the Westbrook uncontested rebounds/poor contests back in January) sometime soon as there are flaws in this, such as Durant being assisted off the ball more frequently skewing the data, but what I've found thus far is rather interesting in regards to the narrative that James is far superior to Durant as a creator. I'd be interested to get some secondary opinions on what I've found thus far.


Lebron's advantage since 2013-14 has been his vastly superior playmaking, as referenced by his 7.3 APG to 5.0 APG lead over Durant stemming back to 2014. However, that 2.3 apg gap doesn't take into consideration that Durant plays off the ball far more than James which reduces his assist opportunities. Durant actually ranks as the 9th best passer in the league in terms % of passes ending in an assist at 16.4%. Lebron is better, but not by a wide margin. He ranks 4th at 18.2%. And that gap was even smaller last season when Durant was in OKC, Lebron was at 17.4% and Durant was 16.5%.

As a matter of fact, Westbrook was injured on December 25, 2013. He returned full time on February 26, 2014. During that 25 game stretch forced into the role of Point Forward for the first time in his NBA career, Kevin Durant led the ENTIRE NBA in % of passes ending in an assist at 20.5%. He was the #1 rated passer in the entire league. And that was occurring while he was also averaging 35 ppg and 8 rpg on 55/43/88 64 TS% splits with his 2nd option out of the lineup.

What people fail to realize about Durant's lower assists is that his time of possession is significantly lower than James's. Since 2013-14, he's averaging 3.4 minutes per game in time of possession, where as Lebron is averaging 5.1 over the same time frame. During that time James is averaging 7.3 apg to Durant's 5.0 apg.

7.3/5.1=1.43 assists per minute for LeBron
5.0/3.4=1.47 assists per minute for Durant

Durant is actually averaging more assists per unit of TOP than LeBron. He's not the passer LeBron is, but he's very good in his own right, and his shooting forces defenses to play him tighter leading to more breakdowns/easier looks for teammates. And thus his ability to create for teammates at a near equal rate.

Durant's elite shooting is also overlooked in other areas. He's such a great shooter, in fact, that he demands constant attention off the ball. That leads to his teammates being able to play 4 on 4 when Durant doesn't' even have the basketball, in essence making him a creator on offense every second his team has the ball. LeBron is not a shooter in the same mix and doesn't require the same attention when he's off the ball. Thus his offensive impact is reduced greatly when he's not playing point.

Additionally, Durant's PG's have always flourished with him in regards to assists. This is because they are still allowed to be ball dominant as Durant can play off the ball at an elite level when necessary. LeBron's point guards always decline in assist totals. Irving, Wade, and Mo Williams(yes even he averaged 18/8 60 TS% prior to joining the Cavs) have all seen noticeable dropoffs in their assist numbers after James joined their teams. Curry on the other actually saw in increase per 36 from 2016 after Durant joined the team. Westbrook averaged the same number of assists this year as last season despite having the ball in his hands FAR more often with Durant off the team. Thus Durant's assists come at 0 detriment to his PG's assist totals. Even though LeBron is better at creating, Durant's 5.0 assists do not deduct from his PG's to date while LBJ's have. I.E. Irving's assists went down by ~1 once LeBron joined the team. If we assume the same trend of Durant's assists coming @ 0 loss of his PG's, that 2.3 assist gap automatically becomes 1.3 assists because Irving would be averaging 6 apg like he did in 2014 as opposed to 5 in 2015 when LeBron joined. That 1 assist became a part of LeBron's assist total. Here are their PG's/Playmakers AST% before and after their arrival/departure.

Kyrie 15.3 in 2014(no Bron), 13.3 in 2015, 12.9 in 2016, 14.9 in 2017.
Westbrook 18.5 in 2015(Durant injury), 22.8 in 2016(Durant), 20.8 in 2017(post Durant).
Curry was 17.3 2016 and 18.0 2017
Wade 16.2 2014, 16.4 2015(post Bron).


(http://stats.nba.com/players/passing/#!?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=AST_TO_PASS_PCT_ADJ&dir=1&CF=GP*G*50)

http://stats.nba.com/players/passing/#!?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=AST_TO_PASS_PCT_ADJ&dir=1&CF=GP*G*50

(http://stats.nba.com/players/passing/#!?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=AST_TO_PASS_PCT_ADJ&dir=1&CF=GP*G*15:MIN*G*30&DateFrom=01%2F04%2F2014&DateTo=2%2F26%2F2014
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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#835 » by StepBackCrack » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:12 pm

lolathon234 wrote:As the Durant & LeBron debate is likely to become a frequent topic over the next year, I actually wanted to point out something here in regards to KD's inability to create at a high level. I'm going to post a few ideas/some stat digging I spent some time on a few weeks back. I plan to do a far more in depth study(as I did with the Westbrook uncontested rebounds/poor contests back in January) sometime soon as there are flaws in this, such as Durant being assisted off the ball more frequently skewing the data, but what I've found thus far is rather interesting in regards to the narrative that James is far superior to Durant as a creator. I'd be interested to get some secondary opinions on what I've found thus far.


Lebron's advantage since 2013-14 has been his vastly superior playmaking, as referenced by his 7.3 APG to 5.0 APG lead over Durant stemming back to 2014. However, that 2.3 apg gap doesn't take into consideration that Durant plays off the ball far more than James which reduces his assist opportunities. Durant actually ranks as the 9th best passer in the league in terms % of passes ending in an assist at 16.4%. Lebron is better, but not by a wide margin. He ranks 4th at 18.2%. And that gap was even smaller last season when Durant was in OKC, Lebron was at 17.4% and Durant was 16.5%.

As a matter of fact, Westbrook was injured on December 25, 2013. He returned full time on February 26, 2014. During that 25 game stretch forced into the role of Point Forward for the first time in his NBA career, Kevin Durant led the ENTIRE NBA in % of passes ending in an assist at 20.5%. He was the #1 rated passer in the entire league. And that was occurring while he was also averaging 35 ppg and 8 rpg on 55/43/88 64 TS% splits with his 2nd option out of the lineup.

What people fail to realize about Durant's lower assists is that his time of possession is significantly lower than James's. Since 2013-14, he's averaging 3.4 minutes per game in time of possession, where as Lebron is averaging 5.1 over the same time frame. During that time James is averaging 7.3 apg to Durant's 5.0 apg.

7.3/5.1=1.43 assists per minute for LeBron
5.0/3.4=1.47 assists per minute for Durant

Durant is actually averaging more assists per unit of TOP than LeBron. He's not the passer LeBron is, but he's very good in his own right, and his shooting forces defenses to play him tighter leading to more breakdowns/easier looks for teammates. And thus his ability to create for teammates at a near equal rate.

Durant's elite shooting is also overlooked in other areas. He's such a great shooter, in fact, that he demands constant attention off the ball. That leads to his teammates being able to play 4 on 4 when Durant doesn't' even have the basketball, in essence making him a creator on offense every second his team has the ball. LeBron is not a shooter in the same mix and doesn't require the same attention when he's off the ball. Thus his offensive impact is reduced greatly when he's not playing point.

Additionally, Durant's PG's have always flourished with him in regards to assists. This is because they are still allowed to be ball dominant as Durant can play off the ball at an elite level when necessary. LeBron's point guards always decline in assist totals. Irving, Wade, and Mo Williams(yes even he averaged 18/8 60 TS% prior to joining the Cavs) have all seen noticeable dropoffs in their assist numbers after James joined their teams. Curry on the other actually saw in increase per 36 from 2016 after Durant joined the team. Westbrook averaged the same number of assists this year as last season despite having the ball in his hands FAR more often with Durant off the team. Thus Durant's assists come at 0 detriment to his PG's assist totals. Even though LeBron is better at creating, Durant's 5.0 assists do not deduct from his PG's to date while LBJ's have. I.E. Irving's assists went down by ~1 once LeBron joined the team. If we assume the same trend of Durant's assists coming @ 0 loss of his PG's, that 2.3 assist gap automatically becomes 1.3 assists because Irving would be averaging 6 apg like he did in 2014 as opposed to 5 in 2015 when LeBron joined. That 1 assist became a part of LeBron's assist total. Here are their PG's/Playmakers AST% before and after their arrival/departure.

Kyrie 15.3 in 2014(no Bron), 13.3 in 2015, 12.9 in 2016, 14.9 in 2017.
Westbrook 18.5 in 2015(Durant injury), 22.8 in 2016(Durant), 20.8 in 2017(post Durant).
Curry was 17.3 2016 and 18.0 2017
Wade 16.2 2014, 16.4 2015(post Bron).


(http://stats.nba.com/players/passing/#!?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=AST_TO_PASS_PCT_ADJ&dir=1&CF=GP*G*50)

http://stats.nba.com/players/passing/#!?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=AST_TO_PASS_PCT_ADJ&dir=1&CF=GP*G*50

(http://stats.nba.com/players/passing/#!?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=AST_TO_PASS_PCT_ADJ&dir=1&CF=GP*G*15:MIN*G*30&DateFrom=01%2F04%2F2014&DateTo=2%2F26%2F2014


Thank you so much for the great work.
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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#836 » by JordansBulls » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:46 am

MisterHibachi wrote:I don't see a big difference between 16 and 17.

Just the injury in 2017 but more dominant playoff run in 2017.
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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#837 » by StepBackCrack » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:37 am

Well deserved.

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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#838 » by StepBackCrack » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:22 am

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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#839 » by Cactus Jack » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:21 am

KD_Steph wrote:

Sick.

I prefer the Warrior highlights. :wink:
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Re: The Kevin Durant Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 1) 

Post#840 » by lolathon234 » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:00 am

KD_Steph wrote:

Sick.


Nice video, but not the most accurate. i.e.

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