The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread - New Thread Soon Part 2

[Fadeaway_J]

I have them as being in an okay spot if LeBron can come back kinda soon. They've had more problems with their 'big 3' than with any of the role guys, LeBron's missed half the season so far, and Russ/AD have been horrid (Russ more so, though maybe more equally so relative to expectations).

It's an all star cast of career losers and it really shows on night like last. Having to outpace the negative traits of all these guys every quarter is brutal. One off shooting stretch and the game swings disproportionately.

Doesn't need restating that Lebron and AD should have done better than Westbrook but I felt the GM should also have done better than undersized guards and a roster full of one way players. As bad as Westbrook is it's the latter that really hurts them. A team with AD and Lebron only really needs two solid two way, well spaced lineups to win any game. I'm talking minimum contract types. There should be at least one Lebron/AD lineup that can beast when Westbrook comes off and in closing stretches.

The guys you're talking about aren't usually available for the minimum. I mean, James Ennis was probably the best option left on the table and it's not like he's fully established as a quality rotation player. Guys like KCP and Caruso aren't irreplaceable but they don't grow on trees either. Realistically, the best you're going to do for two-way wings is Bazemore and 36-year-old Ariza.

[trickshot]

I have them as being in an okay spot if LeBron can come back kinda soon. They've had more problems with their 'big 3' than with any of the role guys, LeBron's missed half the season so far, and Russ/AD have been horrid (Russ more so, though maybe more equally so relative to expectations).

It's an all star cast of career losers and it really shows on night like last. Having to outpace the negative traits of all these guys every quarter is brutal. One off shooting stretch and the game swings disproportionately.

Doesn't need restating that Lebron and AD should have done better than Westbrook but I felt the GM should also have done better than undersized guards and a roster full of one way players. As bad as Westbrook is it's the latter that really hurts them. A team with AD and Lebron only really needs two solid two way, well spaced lineups to win any game. I'm talking minimum contract types. There should be at least one Lebron/AD lineup that can beast when Westbrook comes off and in closing stretches.

The guys you're talking about aren't usually available for the minimum. I mean, James Ennis was probably the best option left on the table and it's not like he's fully established as a quality rotation player. Guys like KCP and Caruso aren't irreplaceable but they don't grow on trees either. Realistically, the best you're going to do for two-way wings is Bazemore and 36-year-old Ariza.

I'm talking Avery Bradleys and Damian Jones not KCPs. You know how many people thought Bradley was going to be cut after two weeks. They are out there. Even Matthews and I think Gasol were on the minimum. Even Rondo was on his way out of the league. Austin reaves would be in the G-league if he got drafted elsewhere. The limited roleplayer market is very alive.

[Fadeaway_J]

It's an all star cast of career losers and it really shows on night like last. Having to outpace the negative traits of all these guys every quarter is brutal. One off shooting stretch and the game swings disproportionately.

Doesn't need restating that Lebron and AD should have done better than Westbrook but I felt the GM should also have done better than undersized guards and a roster full of one way players. As bad as Westbrook is it's the latter that really hurts them. A team with AD and Lebron only really needs two solid two way, well spaced lineups to win any game. I'm talking minimum contract types. There should be at least one Lebron/AD lineup that can beast when Westbrook comes off and in closing stretches.

The guys you're talking about aren't usually available for the minimum. I mean, James Ennis was probably the best option left on the table and it's not like he's fully established as a quality rotation player. Guys like KCP and Caruso aren't irreplaceable but they don't grow on trees either. Realistically, the best you're going to do for two-way wings is Bazemore and 36-year-old Ariza.

I'm talking Avery Bradleys and Damian Jones not KCPs. You know how many people thought Bradley was going to be cut after two weeks. They are out there. Even Matthews and I think Gasol were on the minimum.

I guess, but I don't think any of those guys are materially changing the Lakers' fortunes.

[trickshot]

The guys you're talking about aren't usually available for the minimum. I mean, James Ennis was probably the best option left on the table and it's not like he's fully established as a quality rotation player. Guys like KCP and Caruso aren't irreplaceable but they don't grow on trees either. Realistically, the best you're going to do for two-way wings is Bazemore and 36-year-old Ariza.

I'm talking Avery Bradleys and Damian Jones not KCPs. You know how many people thought Bradley was going to be cut after two weeks. They are out there. Even Matthews and I think Gasol were on the minimum.

I guess, but I don't think any of those guys are materially changing the Lakers' fortunes.

If you think Rondo, Bradley and Reaves make a difference (i do) then you also have to believe many minimum guys out there can. These guys might be out of the league if it weren't for the Lakers. We just saw them bounce around the league for a year getting cut from contender after contender. I think many teams would have sent Reaves to the G league system. The advantage Lakers have is Lebron and AD make it so easy for roleplayers they dont need to be worldbeaters to make a difference.

[tone wone]

They're in a tough spot with the injuries. Because their guards are poor defensively, they can't afford to have their wing-like players (Lebron, Ariza, THT) be hurt.

They're stuck playing some tiny lineups while also justifying 2 centers in the rotation....they just don't have the bodies.

Melo, Monk, Rondo DAJ, Howard, Reaves, Bradley ...these are niche players not guys who should be everynight rotational pieces. Hell, Rondo and Jordan aren't even NBA level players anymore and shouldn't even be on the roster.

[Slava]

Even LeBron from 2020 can carry Davis/LeBron/Nunn/Ariza/Bradley with Howard, Rondo, Melo, Monk and Reaves off the bench to the finals but I'm more worried about the less robust version we have right now, so he needs another ball handler or shot maker to help shoulder the load for 10-12 mins a game. I'm not sure even playoff Rondo can be that dude.

Anything we can get for Westbrook/THT is a bonus. I'm not even expecting much more than a depressed asset package like Porzingis & Bullock or Rubio & Love. I'd be **** ecstatic if we can get a Hield and Barnes out of it.

[nzahir]

Even LeBron from 2020 can carry Davis/LeBron/Nunn/Ariza/Bradley with Howard, Rondo, Melo, Monk and Reaves off the bench to the finals but I'm more worried about the less robust version we have right now, so he needs another ball handler or shot maker to help shoulder the load for 10-12 mins a game. I'm not sure even playoff Rondo can be that dude.

Anything we can get for Westbrook/THT is a bonus. I'm not even expecting much more than a depressed asset package like Porzingis & Bullock or Rubio & Love. I'd be **** ecstatic if we can get a Hield and Barnes out of it.

None of those deals are on the table lol

Rubio has been better than Russ, let alone his contract

Barnes is a plus and Hield's contract isn't great, but still much better than Russ'

Mavs wouldn't do Bullock, probably Powell and KP for Russ and 1 guy is the best we could do, but I don't think Dallas gives up on KP yet

If the Mavs didn't run into the clips or if they were able to not blow that Game 3 lead when Luka sat, Mavs could have made a legit run in the playoffs. And that was with KP playing awful

We need to find a team with 3-4 year deals that want to start over

Spurs: White, McDermott, and Thad Young for Russ, 2 wiz 2nds, CHi 2023 2nd, and 2 of our 2nds?

Spurs get to clear salary sooner and get 5 2nds to do so

We get a replacement pg in White, a great 3 point shooter in Doug, and a versatile 4/5 in Thad Young

I think Spurs may ask for our future 1st instead though of the 2nds, I could be convinced to do it

[Slava]

Even LeBron from 2020 can carry Davis/LeBron/Nunn/Ariza/Bradley with Howard, Rondo, Melo, Monk and Reaves off the bench to the finals but I'm more worried about the less robust version we have right now, so he needs another ball handler or shot maker to help shoulder the load for 10-12 mins a game. I'm not sure even playoff Rondo can be that dude.

Anything we can get for Westbrook/THT is a bonus. I'm not even expecting much more than a depressed asset package like Porzingis & Bullock or Rubio & Love. I'd be **** ecstatic if we can get a Hield and Barnes out of it.

None of those deals are on the table lol

Rubio has been better than Russ, let alone his contract

Barnes is a plus and Hield's contract isn't great, but still much better than Russ'

Mavs wouldn't do Bullock, probably Powell and KP for Russ and 1 guy is the best we could do, but I don't think Dallas gives up on KP yet

If the Mavs didn't run into the clips or if they were able to not blow that Game 3 lead when Luka sat, Mavs could have made a legit run in the playoffs. And that was with KP playing awful

We need to find a team with 3-4 year deals that want to start over

Spurs: White, McDermott, and Thad Young for Russ, 2 wiz 2nds, CHi 2023 2nd, and 2 of our 2nds?

Spurs get to clear salary sooner and get 5 2nds to do so

We get a replacement pg in White, a great 3 point shooter in Doug, and a versatile 4/5 in Thad Young

I think Spurs may ask for our future 1st instead though of the 2nds, I could be convinced to do it

Rubio isn’t even the main motivation for the Cavs to do that deal, dumping love is. They have 5 centers on roster and they just lost Sexton to injury. Westbrook for all his flaws can still carry a team to the play in tournament, which is Clevelands ceiling.

Bullock is in the dog house with Kidd, it might be easier to get him than Powell along with KP.

The Sacramento trade obviously needs a third team to take Russ.

[eminence]

Think the only shot the Lakers to unload Westbrook is hoping OKC can't find something else to do with their cap space this season and being interested in a reunion tour. Westbrook+1st for Favors+filler.

[Fadeaway_J]

It's weird how we're trashing Westbrook in one breath but then expecting teams to give up value for him in another.

[MisterHibachi]

I don't know when this transition happened, but why is everyone referring to THT as a wing. Dude is a guard. His wingspan doesn't mean he's going to be able to guard the KDs, Khris Middleton, Paul Georges of the league.

[dcstanley]

I'm talking Avery Bradleys and Damian Jones not KCPs. You know how many people thought Bradley was going to be cut after two weeks. They are out there. Even Matthews and I think Gasol were on the minimum.

I guess, but I don't think any of those guys are materially changing the Lakers' fortunes.

If you think Rondo, Bradley and Reaves make a difference (i do) then you also have to believe many minimum guys out there can. These guys might be out of the league if it weren't for the Lakers. We just saw them bounce around the league for a year getting cut from contender after contender. I think many teams would have sent Reaves to the G league system. The advantage Lakers have is Lebron and AD make it so easy for roleplayers they dont need to be worldbeaters to make a difference.

The Matthews thing makes no sense to me. He was in the closing lineup for a lot of important games last season and played great playoff defense on Booker early in the series. Don't get why the league has decided that he's cooked.. I think he's better than most players on the Lakers roster.

Edit: Just saw that he's 35, so I guess it makes some sense.

[nzahir]

Even LeBron from 2020 can carry Davis/LeBron/Nunn/Ariza/Bradley with Howard, Rondo, Melo, Monk and Reaves off the bench to the finals but I'm more worried about the less robust version we have right now, so he needs another ball handler or shot maker to help shoulder the load for 10-12 mins a game. I'm not sure even playoff Rondo can be that dude.

Anything we can get for Westbrook/THT is a bonus. I'm not even expecting much more than a depressed asset package like Porzingis & Bullock or Rubio & Love. I'd be **** ecstatic if we can get a Hield and Barnes out of it.

None of those deals are on the table lol

Rubio has been better than Russ, let alone his contract

Barnes is a plus and Hield's contract isn't great, but still much better than Russ'

Mavs wouldn't do Bullock, probably Powell and KP for Russ and 1 guy is the best we could do, but I don't think Dallas gives up on KP yet

If the Mavs didn't run into the clips or if they were able to not blow that Game 3 lead when Luka sat, Mavs could have made a legit run in the playoffs. And that was with KP playing awful

We need to find a team with 3-4 year deals that want to start over

Spurs: White, McDermott, and Thad Young for Russ, 2 wiz 2nds, CHi 2023 2nd, and 2 of our 2nds?

Spurs get to clear salary sooner and get 5 2nds to do so

We get a replacement pg in White, a great 3 point shooter in Doug, and a versatile 4/5 in Thad Young

I think Spurs may ask for our future 1st instead though of the 2nds, I could be convinced to do it

Rubio isn’t even the main motivation for the Cavs to do that deal, dumping love is. They have 5 centers on roster and they just lost Sexton to injury. Westbrook for all his flaws can still carry a team to the play in tournament, which is Clevelands ceiling.

Bullock is in the dog house with Kidd, it might be easier to get him than Powell along with KP.

The Sacramento trade obviously needs a third team to take Russ.

Why dump Love to pay someone more money? The Russ deal is more expensive overall b/c Rubio is an expiring

If CLE wants to push for the play in, fine. But if they don't (and they shouldn't) then its a bad idea

Bullock is still playing 20 min per game and that should move up come playoff time

I don't see Dallas giving up on KP this season, I can see it in the summer time though

[nzahir]

Think the only shot the Lakers to unload Westbrook is hoping OKC can't find something else to do with their cap space this season and being interested in a reunion tour. Westbrook+1st for Favors+filler.

If we could find a solid 1-2 guys to take back in that trade exception, I would do it

Then move 1 of Favors or DJ as well

Team would be completely different and it would be a 2018 type of shakeup

Looks like THT may be back tomorrow, some good news

[LukaTheGOAT]

In 311 minutes of play without Lebron, Westbrook has a-10.9 net rating and is averaging 22.3 points per 75 (rTS% of -1.8%).

In 155 minutes with Lebron on, Westbrook has a 1.5 net rating, but is averaging 12.3 pts per 75 (rTS% of -16.6%). Yes that efficiency number is real. He is shooting 18 percent from 3 during these minutes.

In 113 minutes with Lebron and AD on, Westbrook has a 0 net rating, but is averaging 12.9 pts per 75 (rTS% of -15.1%). He is shooting 20 percent from 3 during these minutes.


AD has seen his performance not be great with Russ.

In 221 minutes with Westbrook and no Lebron, AD has a -13.1 net rating and is averaging 23.3 pts per 75 (rTS% of -6.2%). He is shooting 0 percent from 3 during these minutes.

in 72 minutes with Westbrook and Lebron both on the court, AD has a 16.8 net rating and is averaging 30.8 pts per 75 (rTS% of 14.7%) and he is shooting 33% from 3 during these minutes.

What can we learn from this people?

[Mos_Heat]

Any in season Westbrook trade is unrealistic. They need to accept reality and build around what they have. Get 2 wing size players and trade disasters like Bazemore and Jordan in the process. Get Lebron healthy. Maybe fire Vogel. With relatevely healthy Lebron, AD at the 5, 2nd half of the season Westbrook and a group of ok 6'4-6'7 wings they will have a shot at the Finals. They won't be the favorites but at least this season won't be a throw away

[Mos_Heat]

In 311 minutes of play without Lebron, Westbrook has a-10.9 net rating and is averaging 22.3 points per 75 (rTS% of -1.8%).

In 155 minutes with Lebron on, Westbrook has a 1.5 net rating, but is averaging 12.3 pts per 75 (rTS% of -16.6%). Yes that efficiency number is real. He is shooting 18 percent from 3 during these minutes.

In 113 minutes with Lebron and AD on, Westbrook has a 0 net rating, but is averaging 12.9 pts per 75 (rTS% of -15.1%). He is shooting 20 percent from 3 during these minutes.


AD has seen his performance not be great with Russ.

In 221 minutes with Westbrook and no Lebron, AD has a -13.1 net rating and is averaging 23.3 pts per 75 (rTS% of -6.2%). He is shooting 0 percent from 3 during these minutes.

in 72 minutes with Westbrook and Lebron both on the court, AD has a 16.8 net rating and is averaging 30.8 pts per 75 (rTS% of 14.7%) and he is shooting 33% from 3 during these minutes.

What can we learn from this people?

Nothing new, two non shooters do not fit with each other

[Fadeaway_J]

In 311 minutes of play without Lebron, Westbrook has a-10.9 net rating and is averaging 22.3 points per 75 (rTS% of -1.8%).

In 155 minutes with Lebron on, Westbrook has a 1.5 net rating, but is averaging 12.3 pts per 75 (rTS% of -16.6%). Yes that efficiency number is real. He is shooting 18 percent from 3 during these minutes.

In 113 minutes with Lebron and AD on, Westbrook has a 0 net rating, but is averaging 12.9 pts per 75 (rTS% of -15.1%). He is shooting 20 percent from 3 during these minutes.


AD has seen his performance not be great with Russ.

In 221 minutes with Westbrook and no Lebron, AD has a -13.1 net rating and is averaging 23.3 pts per 75 (rTS% of -6.2%). He is shooting 0 percent from 3 during these minutes.

in 72 minutes with Westbrook and Lebron both on the court, AD has a 16.8 net rating and is averaging 30.8 pts per 75 (rTS% of 14.7%) and he is shooting 33% from 3 during these minutes.

What can we learn from this people?

The premise of Westbrook being able to prop up the non-LeBron minutes was flawed from the start. He just isn't that guy any more.

[trickshot]

In 311 minutes of play without Lebron, Westbrook has a-10.9 net rating and is averaging 22.3 points per 75 (rTS% of -1.8%).

In 155 minutes with Lebron on, Westbrook has a 1.5 net rating, but is averaging 12.3 pts per 75 (rTS% of -16.6%). Yes that efficiency number is real. He is shooting 18 percent from 3 during these minutes.

In 113 minutes with Lebron and AD on, Westbrook has a 0 net rating, but is averaging 12.9 pts per 75 (rTS% of -15.1%). He is shooting 20 percent from 3 during these minutes.


AD has seen his performance not be great with Russ.

In 221 minutes with Westbrook and no Lebron, AD has a -13.1 net rating and is averaging 23.3 pts per 75 (rTS% of -6.2%). He is shooting 0 percent from 3 during these minutes.

in 72 minutes with Westbrook and Lebron both on the court, AD has a 16.8 net rating and is averaging 30.8 pts per 75 (rTS% of 14.7%) and he is shooting 33% from 3 during these minutes.

What can we learn from this people?

The premise of Westbrook being able to prop up the non-LeBron minutes was flawed from the start. He just isn't that guy any more.

Tbf there's a version of Westbrook LA hasn't seen. Westbrook seems to have a half season form that will sweep everyone away as sure as it is to disappoint in the playoffs. Westbrook isn't this ass, he just absolutely sucks against playoff gameplanning. The player refuses to add conscious decision making to his play and will keep playing on instinct. Those turnovers will turn to assists then back to turnovers.

Teams should even do the Lakers a favour and completely start playing off Westbrook now so they can learn how to cope with it before April. Westbrook on the other hand will stay playing the same. He isn't Rondo or Draymond who can outsmart a sagging defense or raise their level of shooting when this happens. Even his finishing at the rim dips to 50ish% in the playoffs. Don't know why regular season defenses overreact after a couple bankshots. Those rushed jumpers become a net negative given space and time.

[nzahir]

In 311 minutes of play without Lebron, Westbrook has a-10.9 net rating and is averaging 22.3 points per 75 (rTS% of -1.8%).

In 155 minutes with Lebron on, Westbrook has a 1.5 net rating, but is averaging 12.3 pts per 75 (rTS% of -16.6%). Yes that efficiency number is real. He is shooting 18 percent from 3 during these minutes.

In 113 minutes with Lebron and AD on, Westbrook has a 0 net rating, but is averaging 12.9 pts per 75 (rTS% of -15.1%). He is shooting 20 percent from 3 during these minutes.


AD has seen his performance not be great with Russ.

In 221 minutes with Westbrook and no Lebron, AD has a -13.1 net rating and is averaging 23.3 pts per 75 (rTS% of -6.2%). He is shooting 0 percent from 3 during these minutes.

in 72 minutes with Westbrook and Lebron both on the court, AD has a 16.8 net rating and is averaging 30.8 pts per 75 (rTS% of 14.7%) and he is shooting 33% from 3 during these minutes.

What can we learn from this people?

The premise of Westbrook being able to prop up the non-LeBron minutes was flawed from the start. He just isn't that guy any more.

I think most people thought the fit with Bron Russ and AD would be tough, but that Russ could carry the team when Lebron sat...but thta looks to be wrong

But I won't 100% count Russ out b/c we have seen him turn it up as the season progresses