All-Season Player of the Year Discussion thread

[Dr Positivity]

Right now

Curry
Lebron
Harden
Davis
Paul

I am not sure the gap in the Finals between Lebron and Curry is as big as advertised considering Curry still had great numbers and was making his teammates better by drawing attention constantly, plus Lebron efficiency is hard to just ignore. Considering the rest of the season and Curry having a mammoth first 3 rounds I am fine with him 1st.

Interested to see Harden v Lebron discussion but subjectively I thought Lebron had better playoffs, his defensive impact is large and his ability to make his teammates better offensively impresses me more than Harden

Davis had incredible season and while I'd be concerned about whether his skill game is "polished" enough compared to older players, he is so tall that he showed he is near unguardable in GSW series anyways

[HeartBreakKid]

James may have had a better series than Curry, but that doesn't mean he was better than Curry through out the entire playoffs much less the year.

Curry really was not bad, the fact is, the Cavs just played a great series. Everyone on the Cavs stepped up and played pretty much perfect defense against the Warriors (Curry was played extremely well). It's not like we haven't seen James numbers struggle against great defenses when they decide to just focus on him in the past (look how much flack he gets for how he played against the Spurs in the finals).

James made me think about whether he was POY, but looking at it, the Cavs were in it because they played at 100%, and you can't play 100% for an entire series, you're bound to get tired or mess up. James orchestrated his team well, but some people say things like he played a perfect game, which is kinda crazy. Truth is, the 3 point shots he missed, he did not miss because he was the only offensive threat and GSW was cracking down on him. The threes he made were open shots...like wide open a lot of the time. His jumper was just broken, and it did kinda hurt his team as a result.

[Asianiac_24]

Even though LeBron's statline looks better than Curry, Curry shot much better and aside from game 3 where he was atrocious, his impact is clearly visible and doesn't pale in comparison to LeBron IMO. Warriors were pretty much playing 4 on 3 the whole series after every Curry pick and roll.

[Dr Spaceman]

James may have had a better series than Curry, but that doesn't mean he was better than Curry through out the entire playoffs much less the year.

Curry really was not bad, the fact is, the Cavs just played a great series. Everyone on the Cavs stepped up and played pretty much perfect defense against the Warriors (Curry was played extremely well). It's not like we haven't seen James numbers struggle against great defenses when they decide to just focus on him in the past (look how much flack he gets for how he played against the Spurs in the finals).

James made me think about whether he was POY, but looking at it, the Cavs were in it because they played at 100%, and you can't play 100% for an entire series, you're bound to get tired or mess up. James orchestrated his team well, but some people say things like he played a perfect game, which is kinda crazy. Truth is, the 3 point shots he missed, he did not miss because he was the only offensive threat and GSW was cracking down on him. The threes he made were open shots...like wide open a lot of the time. His jumper was just broken, and it did kinda hurt his team as a result.

He was short on every one of those jumpers. It was clear throughout the entire game that he just didn't have anything left. No other reason to be calling J.R. isos in the 4th.

Let's call this what it is: the Cavs were beat down pretty badly the last 3 games. They played a hell of a series, and their defense was phenomenal, but they were the worse team and it was obvious after G3. I'm all for giving LeBron credit, and he's the #2 on my POY ballot now, but his case over Curry IMO rested on him providing enough lift that the series would be competitive at the least, and looking at the MOV that wasn't exactly the case. Curry was unstoppable in 4th quarters, and while on the whole his numbers don't look spectacular, the Warriors played basically a fraction below their regular season level and thus I can't call him "underperforming" which is really the only way James had a chance.

I don't like Iguodala getting FMVP. This series showed what a damn amazing player he is, and he was quite clearly the smartest player on the floor, the way he shot gaps, pushed in transition and made plays with the ball, to say nothing of his otherworldly defense. That said, his offensive impact in this series was dependent entirely on someone else on his team being treated like the actual MVP, and thus I have a hard time with the narrative of a clearly inferior player winning the award on circumstance. That said, Iggy is one of my 5 favorite guys in the league, and I couldn't be happier with the way he played and the recognition he's getting.

So yeah, all the Warriors basically needed was guys to start knocking down open shots (which we know all along!) and the Cavs never stood a chance form that point on. They won last night with Klay fouling uncontrollably and playing hot potato with the ball. This is just a great team.

[bondom34]

The FMVP to me is the same as the Rose MVP debate. The Ws won the series on the back of the defense, which was anchored by fantastic play from Iggy. The offense, which was meh for most of the 6 games, was run by Curry. If you're giving it to Curry you're just saying the exact same thing so many rail against on D. Rose's 2011 MVP. Curry had a wonderful season, but Iguodala deserved this award.

To add, net ratings:

Curry: +2
Iggy: +17

He played similar minutes and outshot Curry from 3. Yes, I get that Curry got him some looks, but he was still the one who hit them.

[Quotatious]

Honestly I'd much rather see LeBron or Curry getting FMVP. James was clearly the best player in the series, and his superhuman-like efforts made it possible for the Cavs to win two games, which I didn't think was possible, so I don't even care the Cavs lost in 6. I'd say he was the most deserving, with Steph second.

Let's put it this way - if you detract LeBron or Curry from their teams, would they suffer more without them or without Iguodala, if you detracted Andre? That's pretty much a rhetorical question, of course their teams are going to suffer a lot more without LeBron/Curry, which is why one of them should've won it.

[colts18]

My ranking:

1. Curry
2. Paul
3. Harden
4. LeBron
5. Davis

[fuzzy_dunlop]

1. Curry
2. CP3
3. Harden
4. Lebron
5. AD

[Texas Chuck]

Not sure when my vote needs to be set in stone, but pretty sure it looks like this:

1. Curry
2. Lebron
3. Harden
4. Paul
5. Davis

HM: Blake Griffin, Westbrook

[Texas Chuck]

Let's call this what it is: the Cavs were beat down pretty badly the last 3 games. They played a hell of a series, and their defense was phenomenal, but they were the worse team and it was obvious after G3. I'm all for giving LeBron credit, and he's the #2 on my POY ballot now, but his case over Curry IMO rested on him providing enough lift that the series would be competitive at the least, and looking at the MOV that wasn't exactly the case. Curry was unstoppable in 4th quarters, and while on the whole his numbers don't look spectacular, the Warriors played basically a fraction below their regular season level and thus I can't call him "underperforming" which is really the only way James had a chance.

I

I agree that the way this series ended seemed inevitable. I would disagree that despite that that this wasn't a competitive series. It went one game less than the max and the Cavs were in all the games they lost but one in the 4th. This is nothing like last year where the Spurs just destroyed the Heat. This is much more like 2011 where the games were close, but Dallas clearly outplayed Miami in the 4th quarters.

But yeah I don't see any reason to elevate Lebron over Curry based on their play in the Finals. Curry did more than enough to hold his crown.

[Clyde Frazier]

Voting Panel (thus far):

1. Doctor MJ
2. fuzzy_dunlop
3. fpliii
4. PaulieWai
5. Clyde Frazier
6. RSCD3
7. Dr. Spaceman
8. trex_8063
9. Quotatious
10. MO12msu
11. bondom34
12. HeartBreakKid
13. Chuck Texas
14. JordansBulls

Updated list.

As stated before, those with a prior track record of quality contribution to these projects I'm pretty cool about letting them join in even after the finals are over if they let me know. If that's not you though and you sent me a PM, please send me another one ASAP.

Do you have an idea of the deadline for voting yet?

[Clyde Frazier]

Honestly I'd much rather see LeBron or Curry getting FMVP. James was clearly the best player in the series, and his superhuman-like efforts made it possible for the Cavs to win two games, which I didn't think was possible, so I don't even care the Cavs lost in 6. I'd say he was the most deserving, with Steph second.

Let's put it this way - if you detract LeBron or Curry from their teams, would they suffer more without them or without Iguodala, if you detracted Andre? That's pretty much a rhetorical question, of course their teams are going to suffer a lot more without LeBron/Curry, which is why one of them should've won it.

Yeah, i’m happy for him all things considered, but I still would’ve voted for curry. Outside of that 1 bad game, he ended up having a great series.

[cpower]

1. Curry
2. Lebron
3. Harden
4. Paul
5. Davis

[Dr Spaceman]

Let's call this what it is: the Cavs were beat down pretty badly the last 3 games. They played a hell of a series, and their defense was phenomenal, but they were the worse team and it was obvious after G3. I'm all for giving LeBron credit, and he's the #2 on my POY ballot now, but his case over Curry IMO rested on him providing enough lift that the series would be competitive at the least, and looking at the MOV that wasn't exactly the case. Curry was unstoppable in 4th quarters, and while on the whole his numbers don't look spectacular, the Warriors played basically a fraction below their regular season level and thus I can't call him "underperforming" which is really the only way James had a chance.

I

I agree that the way this series ended seemed inevitable. I would disagree that despite that that this wasn't a competitive series. It went one game less than the max and the Cavs were in all the games they lost but one in the 4th. This is nothing like last year where the Spurs just destroyed the Heat. This is much more like 2011 where the games were close, but Dallas clearly outplayed Miami in the 4th quarters.

But yeah I don't see any reason to elevate Lebron over Curry based on their play in the Finals. Curry did more than enough to hold his crown.

I know you and I have different philosophies on this, but just to be clear:

Warriors RS: 111 ORTG/101DRTG
Warriors Finals: 108 ORTG/99 DRTG

Based on these numbers, that the series went to 6 isn’t anything more than an accident to me. The Warriors blew out the Cavs like they blew out every team this season. It’s definitely a big deal that they won 2 actual games, which is a big deal and I factor that into my analysis, but I think it’s fair to say the Cavs had no shot and over a big enough sample GSW wins like 80% of all games. You’re right that this was nothing like the Spurs series, but I’m still comfortable saying “Warriors won in a blowout”.

[Dr Spaceman]

The FMVP to me is the same as the Rose MVP debate. The Ws won the series on the back of the defense, which was anchored by fantastic play from Iggy. The offense, which was meh for most of the 6 games, was run by Curry. If you're giving it to Curry you're just saying the exact same thing so many rail against on D. Rose's 2011 MVP. Curry had a wonderful season, but Iguodala deserved this award.

To add, net ratings:

Curry: +2
Iggy: +17

He played similar minutes and outshot Curry from 3. Yes, I get that Curry got him some looks, but he was still the one who hit them.

Can’t agree with that analogy at all. For one thing, the Warriors 108 ORTG is still very good. And secondly, with the Cavs personnel I don’t think the Warriors defense is some kind of outlier.

Curry’s case for MVP here is the same as it always was: him being on the floor changes everything about what the defense does. There’s really no precedence for a guy being trapped and doubled on the PNR every single possession. The Cavs put every ounce of energy into stopping Curry and dared someone else to beat them. That Iggy did is awesome, but the Warriors can replace his role much more easily than they could Curry.

[Texas Chuck]

But the reality is that it wasn't a blow out. I agree the Warriors were and should have been overwhelming favorites. But in the NBA if you can keep it close and you have a great player you are still in the game.

Warriors are very much worthy champions and a great great team. But the Cavs did my hook and by crook manage to make it a tough series. And considering that through 3 games the only time the Warriors closed out a period ahead was the end of OT in game 1, its hard for me to call it a blow out. Cavs held the lead a lot in this series.

In the RS it makes a lot of sense to look at the season as a whole. Or even at the end to look at a team's PS as a whole. But in a series you really have to look at each game individually imo. And only once did Cleveland not have a reasonable shot of winning. I just don't see how you can call it a blowout when that is the case.

And yeah we look at it differently--obviously. I look at what actually happened. You look at a statistical summery and talk about what is expected to happen. I understand that, but can't personally look it at that way when these 2 teams will only meet this one time. It's why winning championships is such a big deal. You only get one shot(said in Eminem voice --sorry but as I type it that's all I hear).

[Dr Spaceman]

But the reality is that it wasn't a blow out. I agree the Warriors were and should have been overwhelming favorites. But in the NBA if you can keep it close and you have a great player you are still in the game.

Warriors are very much worthy champions and a great great team. But the Cavs did my hook and by crook manage to make it a tough series. And considering that through 3 games the only time the Warriors closed out a period ahead was the end of OT in game 1, its hard for me to call it a blow out. Cavs held the lead a lot in this series.

In the RS it makes a lot of sense to look at the season as a whole. Or even at the end to look at a team's PS as a whole. But in a series you really have to look at each game individually imo. And only once did Cleveland not have a reasonable shot of winning. I just don't see how you can call it a blowout when that is the case.

And yeah we look at it differently--obviously. I look at what actually happened. You look at a statistical summery and talk about what is expected to happen. I understand that, but can't personally look it at that way when these 2 teams will only meet this one time. It's why winning championships is such a big deal. You only get one shot(said in Eminem voice --sorry but as I type it that's all I hear).

I don’t think our perspectives are mutually exclusive. LeBron dictated the Warriors lineups and forced them to go small. He had an astronomical impact on this series. If he had forced a game 7 with a dominant performance, I’d be all for saying “Throw out the numbers, LeBron is the MVP”. But what actually happened is what we could have predicted, and thus it doesn’t make sense for me to look at it as more than a blip in the Warriors season that they immediately figured out. No matter how dramatic that blip was.

[bondom34]

The FMVP to me is the same as the Rose MVP debate. The Ws won the series on the back of the defense, which was anchored by fantastic play from Iggy. The offense, which was meh for most of the 6 games, was run by Curry. If you're giving it to Curry you're just saying the exact same thing so many rail against on D. Rose's 2011 MVP. Curry had a wonderful season, but Iguodala deserved this award.

To add, net ratings:

Curry: +2
Iggy: +17

He played similar minutes and outshot Curry from 3. Yes, I get that Curry got him some looks, but he was still the one who hit them.

Can’t agree with that analogy at all. For one thing, the Warriors 108 ORTG is still very good. And secondly, with the Cavs personnel I don’t think the Warriors defense is some kind of outlier.

Curry’s case for MVP here is the same as it always was: him being on the floor changes everything about what the defense does. There’s really no precedence for a guy being trapped and doubled on the PNR every single possession. The Cavs put every ounce of energy into stopping Curry and dared someone else to beat them. That Iggy did is awesome, but the Warriors can replace his role much more easily than they could Curry.

But that's not the question. The question is in the 6 games, not who could you replace, but who was most important in the victory. The victory was based mostly off of the defense as far as I could tell, as while the offensive rating was fine, it wasn't mind blowing (worse than the season). The defense held a Cavs team well below its prior 2 series O Ratings by about 12 points per 100. I get they lost Irving, but that still stands. And remember that the Bulls put up a 105 O Rating on these same Cavs. I have no problem if you're giving the season awards to Curry, but this is solely based off of 6 games. In those 6 games, he wasn't MVP.

Edit: And again, this isn't to discredit Curry but at this point the gushing over both him and the entire team is getting to a point of near insanity. You look at the Finals alone in FMVP voting, and in a 6 game sample you're going to see weirdness. Just going back 1 round you could likely make a good argument Lebron wasn't near ECF MVP, and it was one of Thompson or Mozgov. That doesn't mean they are harder to replace, it just means for that series they were more valuable.

[GSP]

I know me and a couple other posters here entertained Cp3 #1. How do you guys feel about that now? Im still considering it, but theyll be my 1 and 2 with Lebron at 3. Davis at 4, still undecided between Westbrook and Harden at 5. I had Westbrook before playoffs but Harden surprised me he was really good offensively he arguably had the 2 best performances against this alltime great Warriors team. His game 4 was insane Houston had near 50 in the 1st quarter IIRC. I do think his supporting cast was underrated all year tho but hes separated himself from Dwight as this point

[JordansBulls]

I know me and a couple other posters here entertained Cp3 #1. How do you guys feel about that now? Im still considering it, but theyll be my 1 and 2 with Lebron at 3. Davis at 4, still undecided between Westbrook and Harden at 5. I had Westbrook before playoffs but Harden surprised me he was really good offensively he arguably had the 2 best performances against this alltime great Warriors team. His game 4 was insane Houston had near 50 in the 1st quarter IIRC. I do think his supporting cast was underrated all year tho but hes separated himself from Dwight as this point

I think had CP3 lost to the Warriors you may have been able to entertain the idea, but losing a 3-1 series lead healthy and losing game 6 the way they did despite being up like 15+ in the 4th at home, I see no case for him for #1.