The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition

[Dupp]

I see per wiretap this is actually a thing. Just lol if kings trade buddy for kuz and a first or something.

[dcstanley]

Westbrook is at least a much better playmaker despite the turnovers. I became more and more annoyed with Schroder's ability to make simple passes as the season went on

That's the only nice thing I can say about Westbrook tho

Oh, and the Lakers should absolutely stay away from Dinwiddie. Dude sucks as a shooter but thinks half his FGA should be from 3

And what about Russ?

If we are getting this version of Dennis again, I think Russ is probably better, but then we need to add shooters

Similar problem, yes. Although Westbrook's distribution of shots doesn't lean as heavily towards the 3 as Dinwiddie's does. ~20% 3pa vs ~40% 3pa. If you can get Westbrook to shoot less then 3 point bricks are less of a problem....until they leave him wide open in the playoffs

I don't want either to be clear

Tbf, Dinwiddie took on a large scoring load his last full season with KD out and Kyrie missing most of the season. He took a lot of difficult 3 pointers off the dribble but his catch and shoot numbers are pretty good. He averaged 20 PPG on decent efficiency and is a considerable upgrade over Dennis in the playmaking department. I think he’s in the same tier as guys like Brogdon and FVV.

[LikeABosh]

And what about Russ?

If we are getting this version of Dennis again, I think Russ is probably better, but then we need to add shooters

Similar problem, yes. Although Westbrook's distribution of shots doesn't lean as heavily towards the 3 as Dinwiddie's does. ~20% 3pa vs ~40% 3pa. If you can get Westbrook to shoot less then 3 point bricks are less of a problem....until they leave him wide open in the playoffs

I don't want either to be clear

Tbf, Dinwiddie took on a large scoring load his last full season with KD out and Kyrie missing most of the season. He took a lot of difficult 3 pointers off the dribble but his catch and shoot numbers are pretty good. He averaged 20 PPG on decent efficiency and is a considerable upgrade over Dennis in the playmaking department. I think he’s in the same tier as guys like Brogdon and FVV.

He was at league average his last 2 healthy seasons. So yeah, his percentages could improve in a different role.

But FVV is much better at catch and shoot 3's. He's been way above league average for the last 4 years. Get him to stop taking so many pull up 3's and he's easily a +.400 shooter.

It's the same with Brogdon except for the 2020 season where he couldn't hit anything. Both are comfortably better players than Dinwiddie imo. I'm not even sure what Dinwiddie does better than those two because they're both solid playmakers in their own right too

[LikeABosh]

1 weak defender can ruin a great defense or become unplayable in the playoffs

Forbes is a great shooter but he had to ride the bench nearly all playoffs for bucks

i dont know if buddy is quite thst bad in defense (his reputation amd king results are stupid bad tho) but he doesnt inspire confidence

He's not that bad, and more versatile as a scorer, but he would be unplayable against a team like the Nets

We throw around the word "unplayable" way too often. If Hield is unplayable vs the Nets then Joe Harris is unplayable vs the Lakers. Along with Duncan Robinson, Jordan Clarkson, Bojan Bogdonavic, MPJr, etc. The league is full of guys who are only in the lineup because of their offense and they didn't need to be a superstar to earn it

Vogel put together a #1 defense with Dennis Schroeder and duct tape. I think a healthy Lakers squad will be fine if it has one unimpressive guard defender

[Mos_Heat]

I actually just looked at his deal and tbh I thought it was way worse. It’s not too bad.


I think he’s good enough opposing teams would offer more than the Lakers can.

Disagree, his contract is about 20-24 millions under water. His salary should be around 12-13 millions per

No way he’s worth only 13 mil. I think Joe Harris is a good point of reference, overpaid or not still probably market value. Buddy shot 39% from 3 on 10 attempts last season.


I think he would be perfect but think kings would be looking for
More than Lakers offer.

Harris is overpayd yes, but that's only because the Nets couldn't afford to lose him.

Hield is a borderline starter, closer to 6th man guy. And those players to me worth something slightly more than full MLE.

[Mos_Heat]

1 weak defender can ruin a great defense or become unplayable in the playoffs

Forbes is a great shooter but he had to ride the bench nearly all playoffs for bucks

i dont know if buddy is quite thst bad in defense (his reputation amd king results are stupid bad tho) but he doesnt inspire confidence

He's not that bad, and more versatile as a scorer, but he would be unplayable against a team like the Nets

We throw around the word "unplayable" way too often. If Hield is unplayable vs the Nets then Joe Harris is unplayable vs the Lakers. Along with Duncan Robinson, Jordan Clarkson, Bojan Bogdonavic, MPJr, etc. The league is full of guys who are only in the lineup because of their offense and they didn't need to be a superstar to earn it

Vogel put together a #1 defense with Dennis Schroeder and duct tape. I think a healthy Lakers squad will be fine if it has one unimpressive guard defender

I agree that unplayable label is a bit misleading, and a weak link or attacking point for the opposite team is more appropriate. Joe Harris could be unplayable if Lebron have space and ability to punish weak defenders one on one. For the healthy Nets it's way easier to expose bad defenders, cuz they have the best iso players in the league.

I'm not saying that Hield would be completely useless, it's just the best teams in the league usually eviscerate players like him. But maybe his defense is not that bad, we never saw him in the playoffs, it's hard to tell now

[trickshot]

Why is he unplayable? Because he isn't a great defender?

What about Kyrie, Harris, and Harden

Kyrie and Harden are top 10 offensive players, and Buddie Hield isn't close to that. Harris is bigger and better as a defender, imho

Hield isn't close to that, but he is a 40% career guy and 39% the last 2 years on about 4 makes a game

If he is getting good looks, which he should here, and continues to shoot at say 40%. That is 1.2ppp, that is all time great offense

Dennis was underwhelming, especially as a playmaker and shooter, but he was good at getting to the basket and finishing

I wonder if we add more shooting it would allow him to go more 1 on 1 and teams couldn't hedge/help as much

Close with Dennis, Hield, Lebron, AD and 1 of AC, KCP, mle wing (Batum, OPJ?, etc?)

Pretty good, but not sure if its enough vs fully healthy BKN

Lowry would be great, but is he worth more than Dennis, Hield, and 1 of AC/THT (we would likely lose 1 if we got hard capped, rather have AC to win now)?

If we could get Lowry for THT, 1st, and Kuzma on a discount and DD on a discount and keep AC, that would probably be a better option, right?

Can keep Gasol, KCP, and AC hopefully and then all vet min guys

Lowry, KCP, Lebron, AD, Gasol
AC, Wes?, Derozan, Kieff?, Vet big like Dwight/Mcgee/etc?
Mclemore? Alfonzo?

Rivers? Tony Snell? Andre Roberson? Avery Bradley? Etc.

Lowry will be the big prize imo but he needs to take the same approach as derozan if he wants to be on a contender. The more he takes the more top heavy his new team will be. Add to the fact the Raptors will only have incentive to do it if future assets are included, so the best avenue for further trades will also be leaving. They will be the 11 or 14 Miami Heat where they have to carry legit scrubs in the staring lineup. Still remember Bosh getting injured and the Heat starting Ronny Turiaf/joel anthony in a conference semifinal. The heat were a good team but the stars had to work so hard every night to overcome the roster being that much weaker than the opponents at every other position. Lebron doesn't have that kind of motor anymore.

[SeniorWalker]

Westbrook would be a bad fit but I think the rationale may be that he plays virtually the same style as LeBron and would allow LeBron to coast more during the regular season. That's an underrated attribute to mix with a 37 year old with untold number of miles.

Although if it were to happen, the Lakers would seriously need at least a handful of shooters.

[trickshot]

Westbrook would be a bad fit but I think the rationale may be that he plays virtually the same style as LeBron and would allow LeBron to coast more during the regular season. That's an underrated attribute to mix with a 37 year old with untold number of miles.

Although if it were to happen, the Lakers would seriously need at least a handful of shooters.

they couldn't be further apart imo. Lebron hasn't used that playstyle since his early miami days. In scoring and playmaking Lebron now plays slower. Even AD takes his time in the half court while Westbrook gets less effective at slower tempos. Just work something out with Lowry and call it a day. You don't need 40mil to win regular season games because that's 40mil worth of useless in the playoffs. And if the Westbrook thing flops that's curtains on Lebron's title window, no one will take him off their hands if he bombs next to Lebron and AD. There are no major trades from there on out. It's title core or bust.

[nzahir]

Russ is an awful idea

At least Derozan can hit mid range shots

He has some tools to be an ok defender maybe under Vogel

But I only want DD for the 10m mle or up to 15m in a sign and trade

Nothing crazy

Need to keep AC

I wouldn’t mind moving THT for a young guy who can shoot a bit more

Pelinka better not mess this summer up

We probably got 2 real cracks left at a ring and BKN is tough

[MisterHibachi]

I don't think the Kings would do this, but I would really prefer expanding any Hield trade to include Barnes, or just trading for Barnes instead of Hield. He's the perfect 3&D guy next to LeBron and AD. I think the Hield trades being floated are Kuz/opt-in Trezz for Hield. If the Kings like THTs potential, sign and trade him and include Barnes in the trade. That would be a perfect trade.

[LikeABosh]

I don't think the Kings would do this, but I would really prefer expanding any Hield trade to include Barnes, or just trading for Barnes instead of Hield. He's the perfect 3&D guy next to LeBron and AD. I think the Hield trades being floated are Kuz/opt-in Trezz for Hield. If the Kings like THTs potential, sign and trade him and include Barnes in the trade. That would be a perfect trade.

I don't think you can send out free agents and signed players in a S&T. So it'd have to be two trades and THT would need to be signed to a contract close to Barnes. Seems like a lot

But I'm a fan of any move that doesn't hardcap the Lakers. In this scenario, you could keep all your free agents besides THT so that's a positive

[MisterHibachi]

I don't think the Kings would do this, but I would really prefer expanding any Hield trade to include Barnes, or just trading for Barnes instead of Hield. He's the perfect 3&D guy next to LeBron and AD. I think the Hield trades being floated are Kuz/opt-in Trezz for Hield. If the Kings like THTs potential, sign and trade him and include Barnes in the trade. That would be a perfect trade.

I don't think you can send out free agents and signed players in a S&T. So it'd have to be two trades and THT would need to be signed to a contract close to Barnes. Seems like a lot

But I'm a fan of any move that doesn't hardcap the Lakers. In this scenario, you could keep all your free agents besides THT so that's a positive

I thought salaries could be 75% within each other. Hield + Barnes is about $43M. Trezz + Kuz is $22M. A $10M extension number has been floated around for THT, so that would bring it in line with the necessary outgoing salary. And you could add KCP if necessary too. And I think you can aggregate salary with a S&T player, that's how any of these rumoured Westbrook trades would work.

[Slava]

If the idea is to get more guards to play with LeBron at 4 and AD at 5, Barnes is definitely not a 3 in those line ups.

[Greyhound]

If the idea is to get more guards to play with LeBron at 4 and AD at 5, Barnes is definitely not a 3 in those line ups.

What are you talking about?

He is exactly what the Lakers should be looking for at 3 in those lineups. A big three who can shoot, defend a bit, and interchange defensive assignments with LeBron.

I have not said anything on the issue but I prefer Barnes over Hield as well.

You are very limited with what you can do with buddy Hield’s 6’4” height. He can start in the back court with KCP (having LeBron functionally running the point again) I suppose.

But…

Any scenario that has he or KCP starting at small forward will be an abject failure in my book.

[Slava]

If the idea is to get more guards to play with LeBron at 4 and AD at 5, Barnes is definitely not a 3 in those line ups.

What are you talking about?

He is exactly what the Lakers should be looking for at 3 in those lineups. A big three who can shoot, defend a bit, and interchange defensive assignments with LeBron.

I have not said anything on the issue but I prefer Barnes over Hield as well.

You are very limited with what you can do with buddy Hield’s 6’4” height. He can start in the back court with KCP (having LeBron functionally running the point again) I suppose.

But…

Any scenario that has he or KCP starting at small forward will be an abject failure in my book.

I haven’t seen him play much in Sacramento and I have no good reason to watch them anyways but when he was in Dallas, he was strictly a 4. He defended 4s and played that position on offense too. He might still play there as Lebron runs point by default in closing line ups but it’s been a long while since golden state years that he defended wings.

[LikeABosh]

If the idea is to get more guards to play with LeBron at 4 and AD at 5, Barnes is definitely not a 3 in those line ups.

What are you talking about?

He is exactly what the Lakers should be looking for at 3 in those lineups. A big three who can shoot, defend a bit, and interchange defensive assignments with LeBron.

I have not said anything on the issue but I prefer Barnes over Hield as well.

You are very limited with what you can do with buddy Hield’s 6’4” height. He can start in the back court with KCP (having LeBron functionally running the point again) I suppose.

But…

Any scenario that has he or KCP starting at small forward will be an abject failure in my book.

I haven’t seen him play much in Sacramento and I have no good reason to watch them anyways but when he was in Dallas, he was strictly a 4. He defended 4s and played that position on offense too. He might still play there as Lebron runs point by default in closing line ups but it’s been a long while since golden state years that he defended wings.

Sac main starting lineup was Fox-Hield-Barnes-Bagley-Holmes, but they do list him as a PF.

Regardless, the idea of LeBron/AD at the 4/5 is more about spacing and defensive versatility. As long as AD is replacing the traditional center, it doesn't matter which of LeBron or Barnes you'd be calling the 4.

[trickshot]

Couple questions. Is Barnes available? and is Buddy hield just a supercharged Mclemore when taking into account his defense? Useful in the reg season but doesn't Lakers coach just end up benching these types in the postseason?

Spoiler:

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/kings/kings-grades-where-does-buddy-hield-fit-long-term-sacramento

Defense
Like most of the Kings’ players, Hield’s defensive numbers are bad. He defends the 3-point line well, holding his opponents to 1.4 percent below league average. Every other spot on the floor was a mess.

Overall, Hield allowed his opponent to shoot 4.2 percent above league average, but inside the 3-point arc, the numbers are extremely unkind. Hield allowed his man to routinely get past him on the perimeter, where they either straight lined drove to the basket or went through for easy buckets.

When Hield kept his man on the perimeter, the Kings had a shot. When he didn’t, it went downhill quickly. Hield allowed his cover to shoot 60.3 percent overall on two-point shots and 69.3 percent on shots less than six feet away from the hoop.

Teams routinely went at Hield, both on switches and in back door coverages. He’s stronger and an overall better defender now than when he got to the Kings, but his awareness is questionable and he too often tries to defend with his hands and doesn’t move his feet.

He’s not a great team defender or a deflection player. He also averages just .9 steals in 34.3 minutes per game.

[kayess]

Say the Lakers get to the Finals and face the Bucks - Can they actually guard the Giannis we saw in the Finals? LeBron stopped him cold on a few possessions in that regular season game, and not sure about AD in the post. Probably much better than the Suns at least, right?

[Slava]

Say the Lakers get to the Finals and face the Bucks - Can they actually guard the Giannis we saw in the Finals? LeBron stopped him cold on a few possessions in that regular season game, and not sure about AD in the post. Probably much better than the Suns at least, right?

I'd be surprised if Vogel's defensive scheme gets done in by someone who still cannot reliably shoot. Lakers also have Anthony Davis to throw into that match up and more than hold his own while making Giannis work on the other end.