2023-24 NBA Season Discussion

[Texas Chuck]

I think most people would. Being a 24-year old "rookie" helps.

I would take Timmy. But yeah, obviously that's another star rookie for Wemby to have surpass just from his own franchise.

So far Wemby looks like what we should expect a wildly talented, physical speciman like Wemby to look like as a rookie--moments of sheer brilliance and dominance, but also some moments of poor decision making, getting taken advantage of, impact varying pretty significantly game to game.

Timmy and David being much more seasoned were much more consistent than Wemby is likely to be. Which is zero knock on Wemby btw. It's an expected part of his learning curve. But when we start talking about best rookies we have to realize there are multiple players who came into the league and were immediately in the conversation for best player.

Wemby isn't that. Now he might be like Luka and by year 2 already be considered one of the best. Or maybe its year 3 like Lebron and maybe unlike Luka, and like Lebron he just builds and builds from there.

But as of today, we can't judge him off that most recent game. Just as we shouldn't have judged him based solely on that poor game right before that against the Clippers.

I don't think it's fair - and I guess this kind of thing hardly is - to compare a 20 year old to a 22 or 24 year old.

If we must compare - wouldn't age be more appropriate?

I'm not saying he should be at their level.

I'm simply saying they existed. We have posters calling him the greatest rookie ever. We have posters suggesting he will be better than Jokic. This year.

I am simply disagreeing.

I mean do you honestly think I don't understand the difference between Kareem, Robinson, Duncan coming into the league and Lebron, Kobe, Wemby?

[parsnips33]

Anybody else watching the Secret Base youtube series on the Shaq-Kobe feud/relationship?

Really fascinating stuff, on both a basketball and human level

And I thought the Warriors had a lot of interpersonal drama for a dynasty

[Colbinii]

I would take Timmy. But yeah, obviously that's another star rookie for Wemby to have surpass just from his own franchise.

So far Wemby looks like what we should expect a wildly talented, physical speciman like Wemby to look like as a rookie--moments of sheer brilliance and dominance, but also some moments of poor decision making, getting taken advantage of, impact varying pretty significantly game to game.

Timmy and David being much more seasoned were much more consistent than Wemby is likely to be. Which is zero knock on Wemby btw. It's an expected part of his learning curve. But when we start talking about best rookies we have to realize there are multiple players who came into the league and were immediately in the conversation for best player.

Wemby isn't that. Now he might be like Luka and by year 2 already be considered one of the best. Or maybe its year 3 like Lebron and maybe unlike Luka, and like Lebron he just builds and builds from there.

But as of today, we can't judge him off that most recent game. Just as we shouldn't have judged him based solely on that poor game right before that against the Clippers.

I don't think it's fair - and I guess this kind of thing hardly is - to compare a 20 year old to a 22 or 24 year old.

If we must compare - wouldn't age be more appropriate?

I'm not saying he should be at their level.

I'm simply saying they existed. We have posters calling him the greatest rookie ever. We have posters suggesting he will be better than Jokic. This year.

That same person has Bird > LeBron

Maybe their opinion shouldn't be on your radar

[eminence]

Some Eastern Conference early impressions:

Sixers - Surprising me, vibes seemed likely to be bad with Harden on the outs, but they seem to have kept it away from the team. Credit to Nurse, Embiid great as usual, Maxey making the next step, Beverley staying an underrated pickup.

Celtics - Great as expected, against a tough schedule to start the season. Top 6 look ridiculously good.

Bucks - Early worries, and not all the way turned around, but they seem to be keeping it from spiraling. Team needs to get on the glass.

Cavs - Hurting early without Garland and Allen, Mobley not really turning a corner, which bums me out.

[Colbinii]

Some Eastern Conference early impressions:

Sixers - Surprising me, vibes seemed likely to be bad with Harden on the outs, but they seem to have kept it away from the team. Credit to Nurse, Embiid great as usual, Maxey making the next step, Beverley staying an underrated pickup.

Celtics - Great as expected, against a tough schedule to start the season. Top 6 look ridiculously good.

Bucks - Early worries, and not all the way turned around, but they seem to be keeping it from spiraling. Team needs to get on the glass.

Cavs - Hurting early without Garland and Allen, Mobley not really turning a corner, which bums me out.

Sixers -- I already ate crow on the T&T board regarding Maxey. I didn't think he would make the next step but man he is electric on the court.

Celtics -- Porzingis really is as good as he was last season [Top 50 guy] and high-impact player defensively.

Cavs -- Yeah, the Mobley thing is the big thing, and how we overrate these young players. By the looks of it he will simply improve slowly every year and not take that mammoth leap. It is looking like his ceiling is resembling Bam Adebayo rather than Kevin Garnett, and that's still a Championship Core piece and building block.

[eminence]

West:

Nuggets - Are good, what?!? Looking exactly how a hopeful dynasty should. We'll see how they weather the Murray-less period.

Mavs - An easy schedule has me somewhat wary, but still a pleasant surprise. Williams has scaled up as well as one could hope, and Lively has looked ready much sooner than expected. If Kyrie gets it together they could be pretty darn solid.

Wolves - Hell yeah.

Warriors - Need to get the starters back on track, but Steph and a bench has been enough to get some road wins.

Thunder - Chet's looked beyond ready to go, very nice. Wallace has looked good as a rookie too.

Suns/Clippers/Kings - Trying to float during injury periods, getting new guys, a bit of an incomplete for them early.

Grizzlies - Would be with the above group if they could actually win a few, may dig too big of hole.

[Colbinii]

Sunday and Tuesday is back-to-back games of Minnesota @ Golden State

I am excited for this, as back-to-back games against the same team can get deeper on specific match-up strategy compared to a normal Regular Season game with adjustments coming after Game 1.

Looking forward to watching NAW and Mcdaniels chase the GOAT PG around and the Conley/CP3 old-PG's who are too efficient in their roles facing off.

[Peregrine01]

Rockets look like they can make the playoffs this year...pretty incredible turnaround from last year. Sengun looks like an all-star this year - his shooting splits from the mid-range look like Jokic's:

3-10: 65%
10-16: 55%

[tsherkin]

Rockets look like they can make the playoffs this year...pretty incredible turnaround from last year. Sengun looks like an all-star this year - his shooting splits from the mid-range look like Jokic's:

3-10: 65%
10-16: 55%

Let's sit back and see what they're at in 10 games and see if they remain there, yeah? He's shooting 6.8% better than he did last year from inside the arc over these first 7 games. He is shooting an impossible-to-sustain 60% from 16-23 feet on (an admittedly small) 5.4% of his shots and 54.5% from 10-16 feet over 12% of his shots... and hadn't managed 48% from that range before.

He's going to settle, which is going to dip his overall FG% and so forth. It's too early to be picking at individual statistics like that. He's had a hot start and he's also been passing very, very well, so he's definitely worth keeping an eye on because this could be a nice 3rd-year leap, but let's maybe pump the breaks on his mid-range splits for a few more games.

[parsnips33]

Rockets have a ton of really good individual defenders which I like - I think with the right coaching they could be really good on both ends of the floor

[The-Power]

I was watching 2015 and 2016 Curry highlights and it's a very different experience compared to today. Back then, I would characterize his play as electrifying. Today, it's a lot more methodical. Very different kind of athlete in terms of quickness and strength. He has adapted over time but continues to play at an incredible level ten years later, and he's still just a joy to watch for me. I can now fully appreciate the greatness of his career. Let's hope he has a couple more seasons like this in him.

Speaking of appreciating greatness, I've started to become more and more appreciative of good basketball and greatness – players and teams – over the years and I'm finally at a point where I'd describe myself as a fan of great basketball and players rather than of one team (even though I'm still very much rooting for the Dubs). And I must say, it's actually a lot more fun – one of the upsides of aging, I suppose haha.

[parsnips33]

I was watching 2015 and 2016 Curry highlights and it's a very different experience compared to today. Back then, I would characterize his play as electrifying. Today, it's a lot more methodical. Very different kind of athlete in terms of quickness and strength. He has adapted over time but continues to play at an incredible level ten years later, and he's still just a joy to watch for me. I can now fully appreciate the greatness of his career. Let's hope he has a couple more seasons like this in him.

Speaking of appreciating greatness, I've started to become more and more appreciative of good basketball and greatness – players and teams – over the years and I'm finally at a point where I'd describe myself as a fan of great basketball and players rather than of one team (even though I'm still very much rooting for the Dubs). And I must say, it's actually a lot more fun – one of the upsides of aging, I suppose haha.

Strangely, I've kinda experienced the opposite. Not to say I don't love to watch great basketball whichever teams are playing - but I've come to appreciate going deep on one team, learning what their rhythms and identities and struggles, and seeing players grow over time more. The depth of understanding I get from closely following one team feels more fulfilling to me than the breadth of watching a bit of every team or whatever the case may be

[Peregrine01]

It's ridiculous seeing Luka break down defenses. Call it as one dimensional as you like, but other than Jokic there isn't a better offensive system embodied in a single player.

[The-Power]

I feel for the Grizzlies. They wouldn't be 1-8 if their opponents didn't shoot 40.6% (!) from 3. That'll probably regress to the mean but the hot shooting streak comes at a really inopportune time for them. On the other hand, I'm happy to see the Kings get a solid win. That was much needed in their quest to tread water until Fox returns.

The Clippers definitely need time. If the superstars can make life easier for each other, that's a big boost. If they can't, it doesn't really matter that there are multiple high-level offensive players out there when it's ‘your turn, my turn’ style of basketball. But also: what was Lue thinking when he played a line-up with none of Harden, George and Leonard in the 2nd quarter? They were killed in the few minutes. When the superstars already don't understand how to work with each other yet, at the very least stagger them properly. With respect to the other ‘superteam’, the Suns look rough whenever Durant is on the bench. They desperately need Booker back to get their train moving. Let's see if it's merely early-season struggles for the superteams, or whether they have flaws that they struggle to overcome even with more time.

Luka is fun to watch when he's focused on playing basketball. It's a shame that the Mavs roster has a couple of big holes. I hope they can fill them somehow, at some point in the near future, to build a contender around Luka. Same is true for the Pacers who need defensive pieces. OKC should already have the pieces in place, or at least have an easy path to acquiring them. Hopefully we can see Luka, Hali and SGA battle it out as the next generation of elite lead-Guards for a long time.

The Pelicans need to deal with their Zion-Ingram conundrum. Not much synergy between the two and neither looks capable of elevating their offense right now, and it's not like they are a dynamic defensive duo. They are currently unable of taking the next step. The opposite seems true for the Timberwolves. They have a legit 9-man rotation and a great defense that can take them a long way – and their success would once again show that we shouldn't write teams off prematurely.

[The-Power]

It's ridiculous seeing Luka break down defenses. Call it as one dimensional as you like, but other than Jokic there isn't a better offensive system embodied in a single player.

I don't think it's one-dimensional at all. He's ball-dominant, for sure, but he has a lot of ways to attack defenses depending on what they offer him.

[Texas Chuck]

It's ridiculous seeing Luka break down defenses. Call it as one dimensional as you like, but other than Jokic there isn't a better offensive system embodied in a single player.

I don't think it's one-dimensional at all. He's ball-dominant, for sure, but he has a lot of ways to attack defenses depending on what they offer him.

Yeah there are still some real things to not like about Luka's game but offensively he's not remotely one-dimensional. I mean even if you just take that game last night. He attacked the paint, he shot the 3 and then when the Clippers finally decided oh we should try something else, he's absolutely elite about pulling the double way out top and then finding the perfect outlet man. And perfectly willing. Here was a guy at 40 points with 18 minutes left in the game and having made 10 straight shots, but the play was to take the double so he just did that repeatedly.

And this year to his credit, he's giving up the ball more and he's playing much faster than his usual preferred glacial pace. Dallas is somehow top ten in pace after being at the bottom of the league every year.

Now we still need some shot selection work, we still need to cut down some of the just terrible live ball turnovers, we need to work to get back on defense every possession, we need to work on body language, etc.... But as an offensive focal point, he's not Jokic and he's not Steph but I think you take him over anyone else right now, no?

[MyUniBroDavis]

I was watching 2015 and 2016 Curry highlights and it's a very different experience compared to today. Back then, I would characterize his play as electrifying. Today, it's a lot more methodical. Very different kind of athlete in terms of quickness and strength. He has adapted over time but continues to play at an incredible level ten years later, and he's still just a joy to watch for me. I can now fully appreciate the greatness of his career. Let's hope he has a couple more seasons like this in him.

Speaking of appreciating greatness, I've started to become more and more appreciative of good basketball and greatness – players and teams – over the years and I'm finally at a point where I'd describe myself as a fan of great basketball and players rather than of one team (even though I'm still very much rooting for the Dubs). And I must say, it's actually a lot more fun – one of the upsides of aging, I suppose haha.

I’m actually curious how you think peak Curry and current Curry differ, dont watch the warriors enough to know aside from him losing some quickness and gaining some strength and being a bit more controlled more than electrifying (horrible way to phrase it lol)

I find it so funny how the entire warriors fan base is just begging Kerr to give him the damn ball lol

[Peregrine01]

It's ridiculous seeing Luka break down defenses. Call it as one dimensional as you like, but other than Jokic there isn't a better offensive system embodied in a single player.

I don't think it's one-dimensional at all. He's ball-dominant, for sure, but he has a lot of ways to attack defenses depending on what they offer him.

Yeah there are still some real things to not like about Luka's game but offensively he's not remotely one-dimensional. I mean even if you just take that game last night. He attacked the paint, he shot the 3 and then when the Clippers finally decided oh we should try something else, he's absolutely elite about pulling the double way out top and then finding the perfect outlet man. And perfectly willing. Here was a guy at 40 points with 18 minutes left in the game and having made 10 straight shots, but the play was to take the double so he just did that repeatedly.

And this year to his credit, he's giving up the ball more and he's playing much faster than his usual preferred glacial pace. Dallas is somehow top ten in pace after being at the bottom of the league every year.

Now we still need some shot selection work, we still need to cut down some of the just terrible live ball turnovers, we need to work to get back on defense every possession, we need to work on body language, etc.... But as an offensive focal point, he's not Jokic and he's not Steph but I think you take him over anyone else right now, no?

I think he’s better at self-creation than Curry ever was. He’s somehow able to create a look out of nothing in a way that only the best on-ball creators have ever done.

[Fadeaway_J]

NBA refs are really puzzling sometimes.

[penbeast0]

NBA refs are really puzzling sometimes.

I've tried reffing, though not recently. It's a lot harder than it looks. When you are out there on the floor, you really don't have good angles on a lot of plays. You just have to guess at times.