James Harden is a superstar

[bastillon]

LMAO at some of the idiots trying to troll the crap out of this thread. in case you didn't notice Houston is above .500 and two games away from HCA in the 1st round. that's with Lin, Asik and Parsons as only somewhat notable players on the roster. Harden is posting 24/5/4 on 55% TS and 109 ORTG. he's leading a bunch of no-names to the playoffs. now that's supposed to be "the worst contract in the league" ? how the hell are the Rockets 8th best offense in the league ? with what he's been doing this year, Harden definitely IS A SUPERSTAR. don't be fooled by his low FG%, he's still efficient even though it's nowhere near his OKC level. he's not just a 1st option on this team, he's actually THE ONLY option. that's the problem. Ibaka would probably be a 3rd option on this team. that's a major issue.

[dream_catcher_9]

LMAO at some of the idiots trying to troll the crap out of this thread. in case you didn't notice Houston is above .500 and two games away from HCA in the 1st round. that's with Lin, Asik and Parsons as only somewhat notable players on the roster. Harden is posting 24/5/4 on 55% TS and 109 ORTG. he's leading a bunch of no-names to the playoffs. now that's supposed to be "the worst contract in the league" ? how the hell are the Rockets 8th best offense in the league ? with what he's been doing this year, Harden definitely IS A SUPERSTAR. don't be fooled by his low FG%, he's still efficient even though it's nowhere near his OKC level. he's not just a 1st option on this team, he's actually THE ONLY option. that's the problem. Ibaka would probably be a 3rd option on this team. that's a major issue.

I used to be a believer that Harden was at least equal to Westbrook and Durant, but this season has changed things in my mind. Both guys actually look better without Harden. Harden needs to develop a good iso game to become a superstar IMO. He relies way too much on foul calls. When the refs are swallowing their whistles a huge chunk of his game is gone. He is not a good enough shooter to compensate for that.

[BmanInBigD]

LMAO at some of the idiots trying to troll the crap out of this thread. in case you didn't notice Houston is above .500 and two games away from HCA in the 1st round. that's with Lin, Asik and Parsons as only somewhat notable players on the roster. Harden is posting 24/5/4 on 55% TS and 109 ORTG. he's leading a bunch of no-names to the playoffs. now that's supposed to be "the worst contract in the league" ? how the hell are the Rockets 8th best offense in the league ? with what he's been doing this year, Harden definitely IS A SUPERSTAR. don't be fooled by his low FG%, he's still efficient even though it's nowhere near his OKC level. he's not just a 1st option on this team, he's actually THE ONLY option. that's the problem. Ibaka would probably be a 3rd option on this team. that's a major issue.

Dude, if you're still claiming Harden is a superstar, well let's just say either you or I (along with just about every other sane person) have a serious misunderstanding of the word. Borderline star at best. And that's generous. Not the worst contract in the league, but probably closer to that than to the best contract.

[bastillon]

I used to be a believer that Harden was at least equal to Westbrook and Durant, but this season has changed things in my mind. Both guys actually look better without Harden. Harden needs to develop a good iso game to become a superstar IMO. He relies way too much on foul calls. When the refs are swallowing their whistles a huge chunk of his game is gone. He is not a good enough shooter to compensate for that.

Harden 24/5/4 at 55% TS, 109 ORTG; Rockets 6th in the west with a lineup of deep benchmen, 8th offense in the league. I'll take that as a compensation.

Dude, if you're still claiming Harden is a superstar, well let's just say either you or I (along with just about every other sane person) have a serious misunderstanding of the word. Borderline star at best. And that's generous. Not the worst contract in the league, but probably closer to that than to the best contract.

unsurprisingly you didn't provide any arguments whatsoever. that's your misunderstanding and it's major, yeah.

[fatal9]

Harden isn't a superstar yet imo (like I said earlier, he NEEDS a midrange game, contested threes can't be your "go to" shot), but he's still better than Westbrook. People let Westbrook's talent get in the way of where they rank him, he has a lot of things to figure out and work on. Still don't trust his decision making in competitive games against good teams. Westbrook is a top 10 talent but not a top 10 player (yet). His percentages/turnovers would be horrific on a team where he was the #1 option too (really doubt Rockets perform as well offensively as they are with Harden) and I don't know how anyone can say he is a better fit with Durant than Harden is.

[G35]

LMAO at some of the idiots trying to troll the crap out of this thread. in case you didn't notice Houston is above .500 and two games away from HCA in the 1st round. that's with Lin, Asik and Parsons as only somewhat notable players on the roster. Harden is posting 24/5/4 on 55% TS and 109 ORTG. he's leading a bunch of no-names to the playoffs. now that's supposed to be "the worst contract in the league" ? how the hell are the Rockets 8th best offense in the league ? with what he's been doing this year, Harden definitely IS A SUPERSTAR. don't be fooled by his low FG%, he's still efficient even though it's nowhere near his OKC level. he's not just a 1st option on this team, he's actually THE ONLY option. that's the problem. Ibaka would probably be a 3rd option on this team. that's a major issue.

He is not a superstar.

I would rather have:

Lebron
Kobe
Wade
Dwight
Durant
Duncan
Melo
CP3
Bosh
Love
Aldridge


Harden is in the ranks of:

Deron Williams
Rondo
KG
Zach Randolph
Westbrook
Blake Griffin


Right now OJ Mayo is putting up comparable numbers and he is also the first option. The big bullet in your whole rant is that he is getting the Rockets to the playoff's. You aren't basing it on how he plays or his impact but more of an achievement. That goes counter to all the statistical arguments I have heard on this board. Statistically he is not a superstar.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... aders.html

He's not top 20 in TS%
He's not top 20 in PER
He's not top 20 in Ortg

I don't really care about win shares but he's nowhere to be found in the top 20 there either. Anyone can score points right? I mean if you chuck it up enough you are bound to make some shots. So what makes Harden anymore a superstar than OJ Mayo? You mean the one game separation in the standings?.....

[MisterWestside]

Harden isn't a superstar yet imo (like I said earlier, he NEEDS a midrange game, contested threes can't be your "go to" shot), but he's still better than Westbrook.

Not a Westbrook fan and I enjoy Harden's game, but no; at least not in '13. I think that Harden certainly has the talent to surpass Westbrook and his skill curves suggest that he can, but he actually has to put it together before I make that claim.

And Westbrook is the #1 overall option on the Thunder (people can argue whether he should be or not all they want, but Brooks and the Thunder brass continue to give him the green light plus the Thunder offense actually benefits when he's more assertive than Durant). Just not down the stretch of close games, and he's not better than Durant.

[JordansBulls]

It's pretty clear through a quarter of the season that Harden just isn't first option material. He needs a true first option in front of him to take away pressure from him offensively.

Or maybe he was never a 1st option so he hasn't had time to develop his game as a first option. Not like he left as a free agent knowing he was going to be the man on a team. He was virtually traded right before the season started.

[kobe808lak]

Where is the James Harden isn't a superstar thread?

3-19, 3-16 in 2 of last 3 games. He flops more than anyone else in the league. Looks like he is taking a gunshot when he drives to the hoop.

[BmanInBigD]

I used to be a believer that Harden was at least equal to Westbrook and Durant, but this season has changed things in my mind. Both guys actually look better without Harden. Harden needs to develop a good iso game to become a superstar IMO. He relies way too much on foul calls. When the refs are swallowing their whistles a huge chunk of his game is gone. He is not a good enough shooter to compensate for that.

Harden 24/5/4 at 55% TS, 109 ORTG; Rockets 6th in the west with a lineup of deep benchmen, 8th offense in the league. I'll take that as a compensation.

Dude, if you're still claiming Harden is a superstar, well let's just say either you or I (along with just about every other sane person) have a serious misunderstanding of the word. Borderline star at best. And that's generous. Not the worst contract in the league, but probably closer to that than to the best contract.

unsurprisingly you didn't provide any arguments whatsoever. that's your misunderstanding and it's major, yeah.

Want my argument? OK: LeBron, Kobe, Dirk, Duncan, KG, Shaq, Nash, Jordan, Magic, Bird, Barkley, James Harden. Who doesn't belong in that group?

[richboy]

One thing people don't take into account is last year when Harden was struggling he could just stop shooting and let Westbrook and Durant carry things. Now he has to continue shooting even when the shots aren't falling. His efficiency isn't nothing compared to a year ago. He isn't a bad player still very good. He is not one of the best players in the league though.

[CKRT]

I used to be a believer that Harden was at least equal to Westbrook and Durant, but this season has changed things in my mind. Both guys actually look better without Harden. Harden needs to develop a good iso game to become a superstar IMO. He relies way too much on foul calls. When the refs are swallowing their whistles a huge chunk of his game is gone. He is not a good enough shooter to compensate for that.

Harden 24/5/4 at 55% TS, 109 ORTG; Rockets 6th in the west with a lineup of deep benchmen, 8th offense in the league. I'll take that as a compensation.

Dude, if you're still claiming Harden is a superstar, well let's just say either you or I (along with just about every other sane person) have a serious misunderstanding of the word. Borderline star at best. And that's generous. Not the worst contract in the league, but probably closer to that than to the best contract.

unsurprisingly you didn't provide any arguments whatsoever. that's your misunderstanding and it's major, yeah.

Want my argument? OK: LeBron, Kobe, Dirk, Duncan, KG, Shaq, Nash, Jordan, Magic, Bird, Barkley, James Harden. Who doesn't belong in that group?

Your argument is that Harden isn't a top 25 player of all time, and I think everyone in this thread would agree with that, but I don't think we need to because it's common sense and doesn't need to be said.

[Dr Positivity]

My original post in this thread was that James Harden has superstar talent but isn't a superstar yet. I still believe that. He will need a few years to work on his midrange game and how to play against extra attention but I'm seeing all the tools to be a monster player

[orangeparka]

Harden isn't a superstar yet imo (like I said earlier, he NEEDS a midrange game, contested threes can't be your "go to" shot), but he's still better than Westbrook. People let Westbrook's talent get in the way of where they rank him, he has a lot of things to figure out and work on. Still don't trust his decision making in competitive games against good teams. Westbrook is a top 10 talent but not a top 10 player (yet). His percentages/turnovers would be horrific on a team where he was the #1 option too (really doubt Rockets perform as well offensively as they are with Harden) and I don't know how anyone can say he is a better fit with Durant than Harden is.

Just no. Harden's a great player but will never be better than Westbrook IMO.

[tsherkin]

As I've been saying all along, I think it's clear that Harden isn't a superstar, by any definition, right now.

There's a lot of talent there, but the situational support isn't there and he's got to work on his game. Lacking the raw athleticism of Lebron or Wade (though closer to the latter than the former), Harden can't just will himself to dominance the same way yet. He needs more of a mid-range game just as much as he needs less terrible team support. He's doing some heavy lifting, though, and in the WC to boot. It's year one, and unless you're blinded by raw FG% (which isn't illustrative of anything super valuable), I think it's clear that he's managing All-Star production without the team support to be doing anything more (especially with Lin mostly flopping in his newer role).

That's all that can be said right now. He's not as exciting as a young Lebron or Wade, doesn't have the media presence they did and that hurts... But really isn't doing a ton worse than did either with their earlier, crummier teams. We're remembering too much of what he did on OKC in a wholly separate scenario, I think, which is weakening the analysis some.

The talent is there, though, so we'll see what happens as we move along. Just remember what was said of someone like Lebron when he missed the playoffs or failed against Orlando and Boston... Current team achievements overtly influence reputation.

[RoyalWun]

To be honest the only reason I would take Harden over Westbrook is because of the lack of really really good SG's in the league right now.

PG's are a dime a dozen. Of course not as many of them with Westbrook-like athleticism but still.

[Goldtop]

The thing about Westbrook is he's still playing with Durant. I don't think Harden or Westbrook are anything special, but I do think Westbrook is the better player. If you made Westbrook #1 option on a team without Durant though, he'd probably look avg just like Harden.

Durant is the only superstar here. Superstars make teammates look better than they really are. Thats all that is happening here. Westbrook/Harden both nice complimentary guys, but neither will ever be star #1 guys imo.

[tsherkin]

Westbrook WITH Durant struggles to score efficiently on a good, balanced team. He'd be putrid off of OKC. He'd have value, for sure, but without 3pt shooters and KD floating the offense, he's just another weak-finishing pen-pitch PG with great tools.

[Krodis]

Well, Harden decided to show up today. Unfortunately, the rest of the team didn't get the message. Seriously, this is beyond pathetic.

[CKRT]

Yikes only two players on the Rockets had more points than shots besides Harden. They were Delfino who had 9 points on 7 shots, and Douglas who had 10 points on 9 shots.