The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 2)

[Quotatious]

green gets the bull suspension and missed game 5

How was Green's suspension "bull"? He has a history of dirty plays and it was about damn time that he got suspended. What Green was doing in the OKC and CLE series was the definition of "dirty player".

they win and we'll have to deal with all the dumbass lbj stans calling him the GOAT and all that nonsense. oh god.

I really hope the Cavs win game 7, and LeBron wins another championship, because the more titles he gets, the fewer dumbass Kobe stans who still rank Bryant ahead of James, will exist, because RINGZZZZZ is the only argument that exists for Bryant over James, at this point - LeBron has several seasons that are on a different level from Kobe's peak, he's just a much better basketball player (and ringzzz is a terrible argument).

[mischievous]

green gets the bull suspension and missed game 5

How was Green's suspension "bull"? He has a history of dirty plays and it was about damn time that he got suspended. What Green was doing in the OKC and CLE series was the definition of "dirty player".

they win and we'll have to deal with all the dumbass lbj stans calling him the GOAT and all that nonsense. oh god.

I really hope the Cavs win game 7, and LeBron wins another championship, because the more titles he gets, the fewer dumbass Kobe stans who still rank Bryant ahead of James, will exist, because RINGZZZZZ is the only argument that exists for Bryant over James, at this point - LeBron has several seasons that are on a different level from Kobe's peak, he's just a much better basketball player (and ringzzz is a terrible argument).

I wouldn't bother responding to him, he's had like 3 accounts since ive been here.

[Frosty]

Really disappointed in his passing this post season. I thought he was overrated as a passer last year (especially compared to James Harden) because of poor passing when pressured and lazy passes, but I had thought he had worked that out this year. But in the postseason it has come back really hard.

I always found he was too careless with his passing.

[TroubleS0me]

100 to 0 real quick ?
we will see has the pot in Game 7 ...if he makes it to Game 7

[Clyde Frazier]

green gets the bull suspension and missed game 5

How was Green's suspension "bull"? He has a history of dirty plays and it was about damn time that he got suspended. What Green was doing in the OKC and CLE series was the definition of "dirty player".

they win and we'll have to deal with all the dumbass lbj stans calling him the GOAT and all that nonsense. oh god.

I really hope the Cavs win game 7, and LeBron wins another championship, because the more titles he gets, the fewer dumbass Kobe stans who still rank Bryant ahead of James, will exist, because RINGZZZZZ is the only argument that exists for Bryant over James, at this point - LeBron has several seasons that are on a different level from Kobe's peak, he's just a much better basketball player (and ringzzz is a terrible argument).

My and1 was only for the first part of your response

[ppedro123]

100 to 0 real quick ?
we will see has the pot in Game 7 ...if he makes it to Game 7

Curry can drop 40 and win FMVP


he's simply not the best player in the planet

[mischievous]

Really disappointed in his passing this post season. I thought he was overrated as a passer last year (especially compared to James Harden) because of poor passing when pressured and lazy passes, but I had thought he had worked that out this year. But in the postseason it has come back really hard.

I always found he was too careless with his passing.

And here people were claiming his playmaking to be on the level of Cp3, who's probably a top 3 playmaker of all time.

[Heej]

Curry's TS was great once again but at what point will posters start to look past that and evaluate how much it's hurting his team that his points are primarily coming from 3. The long rebounds and busted possessions just lead to run outs for a superior transition team in Cleveland. But no one seems to properly valuate that aspect of being the GOAT volume long distance shooter because they're worshipping at the altar of efficiency.

[Texas Chuck]

Curry's TS was great once again but at what point will posters start to look past that and evaluate how much it's hurting his team that his points are primarily coming from 3. The long rebounds and busted possessions just lead to run outs for a superior transition team in Cleveland. But no one seems to properly valuate that aspect of being the GOAT volume long distance shooter because they're worshipping at the altar of efficiency.

Curious if you've tracked the possessions coming directly off of Curry 3's? My guess is the benefit to teh Warriors greatly exceeds the potential for run-outs, but with such a strong take here, you must have done the research and can tell me I'm wrong? How many transition opportunities have come directly off of Curry's missed 3'?

But I do know this: He has scored 84 point this series off of made 3's. Even if every single one of his misses led to an uncontested dunk or layup for Cleveland it would only amount to 74 points. So you are counting on at least 10 and-1's or transition 3's along with a perfect conversion rate just to break even.

I'm skeptical.

[BasketballFan7]

Curry's TS was great once again but at what point will posters start to look past that and evaluate how much it's hurting his team that his points are primarily coming from 3. The long rebounds and busted possessions just lead to run outs for a superior transition team in Cleveland. But no one seems to properly valuate that aspect of being the GOAT volume long distance shooter because they're worshipping at the altar of efficiency.

Curious if you've tracked the possessions coming directly off of Curry 3's? My guess is the benefit to teh Warriors greatly exceeds the potential for run-outs, but with such a strong take here, you must have done the research and can tell me I'm wrong? How many transition opportunities have come directly off of Curry's missed 3'?

But I do know this: He has scored 84 point this series off of made 3's. Even if every single one of his misses led to an uncontested dunk or layup for Cleveland it would only amount to 74 points. So you are counting on at least 10 and-1's or transition 3's along with a perfect conversion rate just to break even.

I'm skeptical.

He isn't saying that the 3s are overall bad for GS, you know that. Nobody is making that argument. he is saying they aren't as impactful as ts% make them out to be due to other factors. I wouldn't say I agree or disagree with him, I haven't really pondered it, but your post doesn't really address what he is trying to get across.

[Texas Chuck]

He isn't saying that the 3s are overall bad for GS, you know that. Nobody is making that argument. he is saying they aren't as impactful as ts% make them out to be due to other factors. I wouldn't say I agree or disagree with him, I haven't really pondered it, but your post doesn't really address what he is trying to get across.

I think his parting shot about worshiping at the alter of efficiency made it crystal clear what he was trying to get across, no?

And I'm not a guy who thinks conversation needs to begin and end with efficiency, but I do think the positives so outweigh the negatives for Golden State when Curry is shooting 3's that this is a bad example to use to discuss the merits of TS% as a data point in evaluating a player's overall impact.

And to go further, it's not on Curry alone to provide floor balance and transition defense. If GSW were in theory getting killed by long rebounds/run-outs that goes to scheme and execution team-wide. But if that were an issue my solution wouldn't be to have Curry(or Klay) shoot fewer 3's. It would be to make sure everyone knew their defensive responsibilities in transition defense and to stress the importance of getting back, stopping the ball, other very basic fundamental stuff. Nullifying the advantage of their shooting in the name of transition defense seems like the wrong way to go about addressing this theoretical issue (still waiting on his data). And it certainly seems like an odd criticism of Curry specifically.

[JeepCSC]

The point was clear. TS% isn't something to be looked at in a vacuum. Many people seem to use it about like people used to use ppg, and while both have their places, there is obviously more to the game than points and efficiency.

[BasketballFan7]

He isn't saying that the 3s are overall bad for GS, you know that. Nobody is making that argument. he is saying they aren't as impactful as ts% make them out to be due to other factors. I wouldn't say I agree or disagree with him, I haven't really pondered it, but your post doesn't really address what he is trying to get across.

I think his parting shot about worshiping at the alter of efficiency made it crystal clear what he was trying to get across, no?

And I'm not a guy who thinks conversation needs to begin and end with efficiency, but I do think the positives so outweigh the negatives for Golden State when Curry is shooting 3's that this is a bad example to use to discuss the merits of TS% as a data point in evaluating a player's overall impact.

And to go further, it's not on Curry alone to provide floor balance and transition defense. If GSW were in theory getting killed by long rebounds/run-outs that goes to scheme and execution team-wide. But if that were an issue my solution wouldn't be to have Curry(or Klay) shoot fewer 3's. It would be to make sure everyone knew their defensive responsibilities in transition defense and to stress the importance of getting back, stopping the ball, other very basic fundamental stuff. Nullifying the advantage of their shooting in the name of transition defense seems like the wrong way to go about addressing this theoretical issue (still waiting on his data). And it certainly seems like an odd criticism of Curry specifically.

I think Curry needs to launch as many 3s as possible, even if TS% slightly inflates the value of the 3 due to higher variance and defensive sacrifice (possibly). I just thought his post was being misconstrued, because nobody thinks Curry / GS shouldn't be attempting 3s. Overall I'm definitely in line with your train of thought.

[cpower]

One of the problems is Klay has taken too big of a role that he couldn't handle. His wild iso ball and bad defense overall has hurt the small ball lineup a lot. The first 2 wins in the series might hurt us in the long run, as Curry started to play passive and defer to Klay and Klay was never good enough to carry the offensive load.
There is no other way to solve this, we can only hope Klay's shots will fall in g7. Or this could end pretty badly.

[Heej]

Relax, in no way was I making insane statements about his 3 point shooting being detrimental to the team. Just pointing out that when he goes 8-20 for 40%FG and his fans counter with him sporting a 60TS% there's quite a bit more to the discussion instead of simply leaving it at that. Every one of those misses if rebounded at the foul line is an offensive possession for Cleveland that's a mere couple PPP short of a live ball turnover. In a Finals Game where every single possession matters that just weighs a lot more heavily than it does in the regular season. Posters here don't valuate that properly because once again a lot of people are stuck worshipping at the altar of efficiency.

Not to mention a lot of his and Klay's 3s are just chucks off of little movement. Demoralizing when they go in but very much a slight reprieve for the opposite team when they basically get to rest up for a possession and come back on offense. That adds up. Basketball is more nuanced than TS%

[Texas Chuck]

Relax, in no way was I making insane statements about his 3 point shooting being detrimental to the team. Just pointing out that when he goes 8-20 for 40%FG and his fans counter with him sporting a 60TS% there's quite a bit more to the discussion instead of simply leaving it at that. Every one of those misses if rebounded at the foul line is an offensive possession for Cleveland that's a mere couple PPP short of a live ball turnover. In a Finals Game where every single possession matters that just weighs a lot more heavily than it does in the regular season. Posters here don't valuate that properly because once again a lot of people are stuck worshipping at the altar of efficiency.

Not to mention a lot of his and Klay's 3s are just chucks off of little movement. Demoralizing when they go in but very much a slight reprieve for the opposite team when they basically get to rest up for a possession and come back on offense. That adds up. Basketball is more nuanced than TS%

The resting on defense argument potentially has validity tho its clear that the Cavs offense is the more iso-heavy, dribble the shot clock down of the two. That's a much bigger criticism of Lebron and Kyrie imo than it would be Curry. Or heck even OKC was more guilty of that in the previous series. But again without some meaningful data about how many of those misses leads directly to transition opportunities that argument rings really hollow. Curry isn't clanging his misses hard off the rim very often and many of Klay's attempts come below the hash making it far less likely the ball is caroming out to the FT line.

And sure we all agree basketball is more nuanced than TS%, but missed shots have more nuance than you seem to be implying here. I think having a meaningful discussion about just how much weight to assign to TS% and how you get to that number could be valuable. Is it more valuable to your team if your efficiency is a result of 3's or FT's for instance? Has anyone really studied this in-depth? I guess I just feel like this particular example of missed 3's and fast breaks probably isn't a good jumping off point--again unless you have some data you haven't sharing showing this being a serious issue.

So I'm trying to figure out if your issue is the over-emphasis on TS% (I'm mostly with you here) or a specific critique about Curry(I'm not yet convinced you've made that case, but open to seeing more justification).

[tsherkin]

Curry's TS was great once again but at what point will posters start to look past that and evaluate how much it's hurting his team that his points are primarily coming from 3. The long rebounds and busted possessions just lead to run outs for a superior transition team in Cleveland. But no one seems to properly valuate that aspect of being the GOAT volume long distance shooter because they're worshipping at the altar of efficiency.

I don't think this is a meaningful assertion. There are plenty of guys producing a similar or greater number of long rebounds and run-outs on the basis of shots which AREN'T threes, or the combination of long twos and threes. Lebron is one of them. Curry's actually been blazing away from downtown, his problems have come below the foul line more than anything else, and while he's dropping efficient 30-point nights, he's not able to survive when Klay and Dray go cold while the Cavs have Lebron balling out of his mind and then having Smith, Love and Kyrie connecting at over 40% from three in volume... which is what happened in Game 6.

Food for thought. Curry's had his struggles, but we're forgetting that he did in Game 4 what Lebron has done in games 5 and 6, basically. A big, dominant scoring game in a victory. If he does it again in Game 7, then this recency bias argument about Lebron vs. Steph (in this series, not overall) will very likely fade away.

[MisterHibachi]

Klay 2 three from tying Curry's record for a playoff run last year. At 96 right now.

Curry now has 53 career finals 3 pointers. LeBron is number 1 with 67, second is Horry with 56. So Curry most likely ends up 2nd after tmrw.

[HeartBreakKid]

Damn, that's crazy that Curry will be 2nd all time in final 3 pointers when he's only played in two finals series :lmao

[Cuban_Linx]

Relax, in no way was I making insane statements about his 3 point shooting being detrimental to the team. Just pointing out that when he goes 8-20 for 40%FG and his fans counter with him sporting a 60TS% there's quite a bit more to the discussion instead of simply leaving it at that. Every one of those misses if rebounded at the foul line is an offensive possession for Cleveland that's a mere couple PPP short of a live ball turnover. In a Finals Game where every single possession matters that just weighs a lot more heavily than it does in the regular season. Posters here don't valuate that properly because once again a lot of people are stuck worshipping at the altar of efficiency.

Not to mention a lot of his and Klay's 3s are just chucks off of little movement. Demoralizing when they go in but very much a slight reprieve for the opposite team when they basically get to rest up for a possession and come back on offense. That adds up. Basketball is more nuanced than TS%

Wouldn't that be offset by the amount of long rebounds that end up easy offensive rebounds tho? I mean the Warriors are sporting a very good 25,9 Orb% for the series despite Ezeli and Bogut combining to barely play 20 mpg.