2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[MyUniBroDavis]

Absurd defensive performance from Davis. This is the first time these playoffs when I watched him and thought "man, this guy finally reached next level". He did everything on that end - blocking shots, protecting the paint, guarding Butler for big part of the game, shutting down P&Rs.

Davis isn't that consistent defender, but his ceiling is very high.

Told you Davis is a historic defensive player. He can genuinely lock down 1-5.

I feel heat with adebayo ate the only team he doesnt have to play in a weird play defensively other than portland

[Joey Wheeler]

Absurd defensive performance from Davis. This is the first time these playoffs when I watched him and thought "man, this guy finally reached next level". He did everything on that end - blocking shots, protecting the paint, guarding Butler for big part of the game, shutting down P&Rs.

Davis isn't that consistent defender, but his ceiling is very high.

Told you Davis is a historic defensive player. He can genuinely lock down 1-5.

I feel heat with adebayo ate the only team he doesnt have to play in a weird play defensively other than portland

AD is everywhere defensively, honestly never seen a player cover as much ground on defense. He can genuinely be the primary defender on both Steph Curry/James Harden and Nikola Jokic/Joel Embiid. In this very game, he was an incredible deterrent at the rim, blocking shots and altering them with the fear caused by his presense while at the same time clamping down Butler on the perimeter.

[70sFan]

Absurd defensive performance from Davis. This is the first time these playoffs when I watched him and thought "man, this guy finally reached next level". He did everything on that end - blocking shots, protecting the paint, guarding Butler for big part of the game, shutting down P&Rs.

Davis isn't that consistent defender, but his ceiling is very high.

Told you Davis is a historic defensive player. He can genuinely lock down 1-5.

Don't exaggarate again. It's not like Davis plays this kind of defense all playoffs long and he couldn't lock down Harden, Jokic, Murray and even Butler wasn't locked down last night.

[E-Balla]

Absurd defensive performance from Davis. This is the first time these playoffs when I watched him and thought "man, this guy finally reached next level". He did everything on that end - blocking shots, protecting the paint, guarding Butler for big part of the game, shutting down P&Rs.

Davis isn't that consistent defender, but his ceiling is very high.

Told you Davis is a historic defensive player. He can genuinely lock down 1-5.

Don't exaggarate again. It's not like Davis plays this kind of defense all playoffs long and he couldn't lock down Harden, Jokic, Murray and even Butler wasn't locked down last night.

Yeah lockdown is an exaggeration. Still he's the best perimeter defender 1 on 1 on the team over Danny Green and LeBron James. He's guarded every major perimeter player they've gone against when LA needs a stop. Like he guarded Jimmy the whole game while still locking down the paint. Absolutely insane level of play from him on that end. Their defense when AD wasn't on the floor was getting shredded. The second he's back out there it's like Miami can't score consistently anymore. His game 3 was so bad he won't win Finals MVP but one more game where he outplays LeBron and that would mean he outplayed LeBron in all the series wins with game 2 being a maybe.

At this point Jimmy must be top 5 in POTY voting. He's outplaying both LeBron and AD in the Finals so far if you ask me, and if Miami had Dragic instead of Herro to take all these shots and close the game they might be 2-2 right now. Herro is killing them out there.

I decided to look it up (I know it's a small sample) but Miami has a -14.1 net rating with Herro on the floor and a +31.6 with him on the bench. Yes that means he's a -45.7. He's dragging the team down playing a role that's not meant for him. Its a miracle Jimmy is keeping them in the games.

[E-Balla]

Absurd defensive performance from Davis. This is the first time these playoffs when I watched him and thought "man, this guy finally reached next level". He did everything on that end - blocking shots, protecting the paint, guarding Butler for big part of the game, shutting down P&Rs.

Davis isn't that consistent defender, but his ceiling is very high.

Yup. Unpopular opinion, but I think he was the Lakers' best player tonight. LeBron turned around a brutal 1st half and was quite honestly great in the 2nd half...but Davis's defense was just amazing tonight. Contributed a very efficient 22/9/4 with 4 blocks of his own, and only had 2 TOs. Just a clean all-around offensive game from Davis with dominant defense.

The unpopular opinion IMO would be that even with his game 3 stinker AD deserves FMVP. Games 1, 2, and 4 were all AD. I mean LeBron was still great, AD was just better in those games.

[70sFan]

Told you Davis is a historic defensive player. He can genuinely lock down 1-5.

Don't exaggarate again. It's not like Davis plays this kind of defense all playoffs long and he couldn't lock down Harden, Jokic, Murray and even Butler wasn't locked down last night.

Yeah lockdown is an exaggeration. Still he's the best perimeter defender 1 on 1 on the team over Danny Green and LeBron James. He's guarded every major perimeter player they've gone against when LA needs a stop. Like he guarded Jimmy the whole game while still locking down the paint. Absolutely insane level of play from him on that end. Their defense when AD wasn't on the floor was getting shredded. The second he's back out there it's like Miami can't score consistently anymore. His game 3 was so bad he won't win Finals MVP but one more game where he outplays LeBron and that would mean he outplayed LeBron in all the series wins with game 2 being a maybe.

At this point Jimmy must be top 5 in POTY voting. He's outplaying both LeBron and AD in the Finals so far if you ask me, and if Miami had Dragic instead of Herro to take all these shots and close the game they might be 2-2 right now. Herro is killing them out there.

I decided to look it up (I know it's a small sample) but Miami has a -14.1 net rating with Herro on the floor and a +31.6 with him on the bench. Yes that means he's a -45.7. He's dragging the team down playing a role that's not meant for him. Its a miracle Jimmy is keeping them in the games.

Hey, I hope to see you in the last 2001-05 team voting, it's your era after all

[E-Balla]

Don't exaggarate again. It's not like Davis plays this kind of defense all playoffs long and he couldn't lock down Harden, Jokic, Murray and even Butler wasn't locked down last night.

Yeah lockdown is an exaggeration. Still he's the best perimeter defender 1 on 1 on the team over Danny Green and LeBron James. He's guarded every major perimeter player they've gone against when LA needs a stop. Like he guarded Jimmy the whole game while still locking down the paint. Absolutely insane level of play from him on that end. Their defense when AD wasn't on the floor was getting shredded. The second he's back out there it's like Miami can't score consistently anymore. His game 3 was so bad he won't win Finals MVP but one more game where he outplays LeBron and that would mean he outplayed LeBron in all the series wins with game 2 being a maybe.

At this point Jimmy must be top 5 in POTY voting. He's outplaying both LeBron and AD in the Finals so far if you ask me, and if Miami had Dragic instead of Herro to take all these shots and close the game they might be 2-2 right now. Herro is killing them out there.

I decided to look it up (I know it's a small sample) but Miami has a -14.1 net rating with Herro on the floor and a +31.6 with him on the bench. Yes that means he's a -45.7. He's dragging the team down playing a role that's not meant for him. Its a miracle Jimmy is keeping them in the games.

Hey, I hope to see you in the last 2001-05 team voting, it's your era after all

I'm definitely going to try. It's easier to get a 1st team vote out since that's obvious, it's the other votes I have to think on that are harder to get out with my busy ass schedule nowadays. Maybe I'll start having to only post once every morning after I think about the teams or something - I'll figure it out.

[limbo]

Butler averaging 10 apg in the Finals is kind of nutty, especially considering the Heat have been missing two of their best offensive players for the series (well Bam played 2 games technically) and Herro sucking. So basically, Butler is doing this with a bunch of 3pt shooters...

I always thought Butler was an underrated playmaker/passer, which is what separated him from a guy like Paul George, but averaging 10 apg in the Finals on a depleted team where he also has to score at a high volume and defend LeBron for large stretches of the game is some next level stuff. Not to mention the leadership/mentality he reinforces on this team.

Honestly the only guy other than Butler i can see pulling a series like this off is LeBron himself... Maybe Giannis.

Kawhi certainly doesn't have the playmaking ability to create offense this consistently and effectively. Harden and Luka do, but they can't guard LeBron and generally don't have as much impact defensively...

It makes me wonder if i should be putting Jimmy closer to the top.

[Heej]

Doesn't RAPM have Butler as one of the top 5 guys in the last few years despite him jumping around from team to team? I guess this just shows he was a heliocentric star all this time.

Also, AD being able to guard Jimmy and lock him up from the second quarter on is just another feather in his cap as to why he's better than Giannis in the playoffs. Too versatile. Giannis couldn't do what AD did in 1v1 coverage

I think LeBron was still the more impactful guy last night. Completely orchestrated the game in the second half and was the only guy consistently getting to the line and imposing his physicality on the Heat.

[eminence]

Doesn't RAPM have Butler as one of the top 5 guys in the last few years despite him jumping around from team to team? I guess this just shows he was a heliocentric star all this time.

Also, AD being able to guard Jimmy and lock him up from the second quarter on is just another feather in his cap as to why he's better than Giannis in the playoffs. Too versatile. Giannis couldn't do what AD did in 1v1 coverage

I think LeBron was still the more impactful guy last night. Completely orchestrated the game in the second half and was the only guy consistently getting to the line and imposing his physicality on the Heat.

6th over the last 5 years by NBA Shot Charts (Steph/LeBron/CP3/Embiid/Lowry the top 5).

[Doctor MJ]

Curious what you're all thinking in terms of DPOY. I'm all mixed up.

Obvious guys to talk about, though free to bring up others:

Giannis
Gobert
AD & LeBron

[MisterHibachi]

Curious what you're all thinking in terms of DPOY. I'm all mixed up.

Obvious guys to talk about, though free to bring up others:

Giannis
Gobert
AD & LeBron

LeBron for DPOY? He's been good to great on defense but don't think he deserves a mention as best defender in the league.

[kayess]

Curious what you're all thinking in terms of DPOY. I'm all mixed up.

Obvious guys to talk about, though free to bring up others:

Giannis
Gobert
AD & LeBron

LeBron for DPOY? He's been good to great on defense but don't think he deserves a mention as best defender in the league.

Yeah for sure. There's a clear gap between Giannis, Gobert, AD, and the rest.

Rest of the vote getters (Adebayo, Whiteside, then a bunch of smalls), you can probably put LeBron above most of the smalls, and honestly don't know vs. the other non top 3 big men who received votes.

[HeartBreakKid]

I actually think the top 3 defenders are Gobert, Adebayo and Ben Simmons this year. (I'm thinking Adebayo is the worse for now of that trio)

I kind of feel like the other guys are a bit overrated (more so Giannis and James than Davis) and perhaps over credited because they're on elite defenses. That last game with Davis was really really good on defense, but was probably his best defensive performance of the post season. I don't even think I considered James actually as a DPOY candidate.

[Doctor MJ]

Curious what you're all thinking in terms of DPOY. I'm all mixed up.

Obvious guys to talk about, though free to bring up others:

Giannis
Gobert
AD & LeBron

LeBron for DPOY? He's been good to great on defense but don't think he deserves a mention as best defender in the league.

Right, but there is the matter that Laker defensive effectiveness correlated more with LeBron's presence than AD's all year.

A vote for AD is a vote for a guy whose team defense was actually more effective when he was on the bench in the regular season.

To be clear, I'm not making an argument for LeBron here nor am I insisting on using something like on/off as gospel, but arguments for AD really have to address stuff like this.

I like what's been said about AD as someone who is capable of transcendent defense when focused but who really doesn't seem to bring it all the time. To me there's at least some truth in that.

[Joey Wheeler]

Definitely voting for AD #1 bar a huge shift in the coming games. It was a pick'em between Lebron and AD before the Finals, but AD has clearly been more impactful in the Finals imo, with Lebron having a meh series for his standards.

[Heej]

I disagree with the take that AD has been more impactful. We saw what happened when the Heat played a real defense fronting and doubling on post touches as opposed to gimmick defenses like zone and switching every single action. LeBron has been by far the more impactful and controlling player once the Heat upshifted into their ultimate scheme/adjustments. He's been the ones creating a ton of open looks for role players, especially high value ones from 3. If Danny Green was hitting at even a reasonable clip Lebron would be averaging nearly a 30 point triple double due to the associated cascading effects.

[70sFan]

I actually think the top 3 defenders are Gobert, Adebayo and Ben Simmons this year. (I'm thinking Adebayo is the worse for now of that trio)

I kind of feel like the other guys are a bit overrated (more so Giannis and James than Davis) and perhaps over credited because they're on elite defenses. That last game with Davis was really really good on defense, but was probably his best defensive performance of the post season. I don't even think I considered James actually as a DPOY candidate.

I'm Gobert believer and I can see a case for Bam. Davis is inconsistent and even though he's been great in playoffs overall, I don't see him as GOAT-level defender (or even close to that) despite the hype.

Giannis shouldn't have won the DPOTY in the first place. He had a roster full of good defenders and excellent defensive coach. His defense wasn't impactful in playoffs either.

[Heej]

Gobert has too easily exploitable a flaw in the playoffs vs higher level competition for me to seriously consider him as the best defender in the league. I'll take Peak Draymond on defense over Peak Gobert any day. The switchy rim protector archetype matters way more than an Uber rim protector. It's cute and all when you run your base drop defense all regular season but that **** ain't cutting it thru 4 rounds. Some team will exploit you and send you packing

[Joey Wheeler]

I disagree with the take that AD has been more impactful. We saw what happened when the Heat played a real defense fronting and doubling on post touches as opposed to gimmick defenses like zone and switching every single action. LeBron has been by far the more impactful and controlling player once the Heat upshifted into their ultimate scheme/adjustments. He's been the ones creating a ton of open looks for role players, especially high value ones from 3. If Danny Green was hitting at even a reasonable clip Lebron would be averaging nearly a 30 point triple double due to the associated cascading effects.

The Heat focusing their defense on stopping entry passes and doubling Davis on the post shows the impact he's having as the biggest mismatch on the court. Lebron is getting his numbers for sure, but honestly doesn't feel like he's disrupting the Heat defense to a great degree. He's still better offensively overall with his playmaking of course.

But then there's defense, AD has been historic on that end; Lebron has been good but the difference overall has still been massive + AD guarding Butler has basically sealed the series. Honestly don't see how you make an argument for Lebron in this series unless you completely ignore defense; Lebron's offense has been great, but not close to the dominating presence he often is.