2024-25 NBA Season Discussion

[yoyoboy]

Garland's on-court ORTG is 126.4. Cavs are at a 111.7 ORTG with him off the floor.

Mitchell on: 117.3 ORTG
Mitchell off: 124.6 ORTG

Mobley on: 121.3 ORTG
Mobley off: 117.9 ORTG

Allen on: 123.4 ORTG
Allen off: 115.7 ORTG

Unsurprisingly, Allen's numbers look the second best given the lineups are staggered so that he's paired with Garland while Mobley is paired with Mitchell. Garland has just been an unreal offensive orchestrater this season. The combination of the level of speed, elite off-the-dribble shooting, and high-level passing just makes it so difficult for opposing defenses to counter. He's getting into the paint at will, and because the floater is a serious weapon and he masks it so well, the lob to one of the bigs is always there as well. I don't think he gets enough credit for just how great of an offensive player he is. This is the guy who I saw developing before Mitchell arrived and before his injury and weight loss last year derailed his season. He's at 25 points/8 assists per 36 min while scoring on 50/40/90 splits and posting low turnover numbers on the best offense in league history.

This also all the while 46% of his minutes have come with both Mobley and Allen on the floor with him, a two-traditional big combo that no one would expect to be able to play on this level of offense. And I guess that's for good reason because if you look at the numbers:

Garland/Mobley/Allen ON (495 min): 125.7 ORTG
Garland/Allen ON, Mobley OFF (463 min): 128.1 ORTG
Garland/Mobley ON, Allen OFF (114 min): 137.0 ORTG

The team's offense gets even better with only one of the bigs on the floor with DG, and with Mobley instead of Allen, it skyrockets. Finally, in a decent sample size without Mitchell, Garland has the Cavs' offense performing at an unreal level:

Garland ON, Mitchell OFF (522 MP): 133.6 ORTG

[BIGJ1ER]

Garland's on-court ORTG is 126.4. Cavs are at a 111.7 ORTG with him off the floor.

Mitchell on: 117.3 ORTG
Mitchell off: 124.6 ORTG

Mobley on: 121.3 ORTG
Mobley off: 117.9 ORTG

Allen on: 123.4 ORTG
Allen off: 115.7 ORTG

Unsurprisingly, Allen's numbers look the second best given the lineups are staggered so that he's paired with Garland while Mobley is paired with Mitchell. Garland has just been an unreal offensive orchestrater this season. The combination of the level of speed, elite off-the-dribble shooting, and high-level passing just makes it so difficult for opposing defenses to counter. He's getting into the paint at will, and because the floater is a serious weapon and he masks it so well, the lob to one of the bigs is always there as well. I don't think he gets enough credit for just how great of an offensive player he is. This is the guy who I saw developing before Mitchell arrived and before his injury and weight loss last year derailed his season. He's at 25 points/8 assists per 36 min while scoring on 50/40/90 splits and posting low turnover numbers on the best offense in league history.

This also all the while 46% of his minutes have come with both Mobley and Allen on the floor with him, a two-traditional big combo that no one would expect to be able to play on this level of offense. And I guess that's for good reason because if you look at the numbers:

Garland/Mobley/Allen ON (495 min): 125.7 ORTG
Garland/Allen ON, Mobley OFF (463 min): 128.1 ORTG
Garland/Mobley ON, Allen OFF (114 min): 137.0 ORTG

The team's offense gets even better with only one of the bigs on the floor with DG, and with Mobley instead of Allen, it skyrockets. Finally, in a decent sample size without Mitchell, Garland has the Cavs' offense performing at an unreal level:

Garland ON, Mitchell OFF (522 MP): 133.6 ORTG

22 Gave us an insight into what DG was capable of, and after finally recovering from the Jaw ruined year in 24, Garland is finally flourishing. He's got bits of nash and curry in his game, being able to thrive in lineups that normally wouldn't perform as well like double bigs ala curry, while being arguably the best layoff passer in the game like nash.

I'm pretty comfortable saying cleveland has 3 top 20 guys this year, with garland being fringe and mobley pushing top 15 level. You don't win at that rate without a strong collection of talent.

I'm still curious in the idea of a consolidation trade. I think some of their guys provide immense RS value (ie merrill, jerome) but won't hold up in the playoffs. They win heavily off their ability to always have 2 all stars on the court, but they don't seem to have a true death lineup. Would like them exploring a 3 that gives them that, but I assume Cam J is probably too expensive for them. Don't think Okoro/Tyson/picks will fetch you Cammy J, especially with okc lurking with a topic and picks based package.

Name I think a guy that makes sense is keegan murray, especially with his defensive leap the last 2 years, let's you have an elite defensive wing on the court at all times between him and dean wade. His value is probably at an all time low too. Him and Wade both run the risk of becoming passive shooting from deep in the post season, I'd still roll the dice. However, I don't think the kings become sellers after this 5 win streak, even if I think they should.

[BIGJ1ER]

2 Thoughts -

1. NY are the ultimate flat track bullies. They're 9-11 against teams over .500, with 3 of those being against the no paolo and franz magic. They have 4 starters in the top 10 of minutes played. I think even in this thread we have people overrating them, considering them better than a bunch of western teams which I don't see (I think memphis and dallas clear NY comfortably). They're in an awful position too, can't believe they emptied their assets completely on THIS roster. There is no world that Bridges trade will ever be seen as even close to a good one. That same package may have fetched you giannis this offseason. You've emptied the accounts for a clear pretender with minimal upside as no one is on the right side of the aging curve. No prospects worth discussing either.

2. Jdub is pretty clearly the best wing defender in the game to me right now, and I'm surprised he isn't getting more love nationally for the value he's providing on that end. His O has actually been fairly underwhelming compared to last year, he's shot the ball significantly worse and hasn't made strides where I wanted him to as a finisher (avoids contact) and a gap killer (won't shoot those elbow 3's if there's a semi contest - cleveland killed them with the zone because of this) (also won't stampede cut in this position either, which would suit his game extremely well, as he's an impressive finisher at speed, seen multiple times in transition in the cavs game). This has been completely offset by his enormous leap on the defensive end. He doesn't pop like the thompson twins athletically, doesn't have the attitude of a lu dort/dillon brooks/tari eason, but this is the clear supreme wing defender itl to me. His versatility is insane, his rim protection value as a wing is immense, holding guys to 13% below expected outcome at the rim, and he's an event creator, generating deflections and turnovers at a high rate.

The wing defender stock right now is elite, with guys I didn't even mention like Tatum, OG, Dyson, JJ, Herb etc, but I think Jdub has created separation as the cream of the crop. Its even funnier seeing okc fan accounts on twitter giving lu dort DPOY shouts, they're pushing the wrong guy. Lu has that classic hound dog onball style which is easy to notice, while Jdub dwarfs him in offball value, which catch all metrics seem to recognise.

Mind you I think one of the thompson twins (likely Amen since he'll play more minutes if Ausar can't improve offensively) is likely coming for this throne in a year or two.

[tone wone]

Oh, so Garland=Mavs' Nash is back on?!!?

[TheGOATRises007]

Westbrook redemption arc in 2025

[Texas Chuck]

Oh, so Garland=Mavs' Nash is back on?!!?

Show some respect. He's Nash, but with Curry's shooting aggression.

I mean he's a very good player having a very good year. But no need to damn him by calling him a Nash/Curry hybrid.

[The-Power]

Show some respect. He's Nash, but with Curry's shooting aggression.

I mean he's a very good player having a very good year. But no need to damn him by calling him a Nash/Curry hybrid.

I think the poster was just describing their playing style as having elements of both Nash and Curry. And I think that's entirely fair. It doesn't mean that is considered Garland a better player. Style doesn't equal quality.

[BIGJ1ER]

Show some respect. He's Nash, but with Curry's shooting aggression.

I mean he's a very good player having a very good year. But no need to damn him by calling him a Nash/Curry hybrid.

I think the poster was just describing their playing style as having elements of both Nash and Curry. And I think that's entirely fair. It doesn't mean that is considered Garland a better player. Style doesn't equal quality.

Correct, didn't mean to insinuate that Garland is a perfect hybrid of the two or better than either player, just elements of their games. He'll very likely never reach their levels.

I'm just glad he went that route and not the damian lillard one, who seemed to be his own comparison coming out. That playstyle never resonated with me, even if it was effective.

[Doctor MJ]

Oh, so Garland=Mavs' Nash is back on?!!?

The "Sleeve Nash" nickname for Garland always made me smile.

[Peregrine01]

It's ironic how the Nuggets might have the best contract in the league (Westbrook) and the worst (Murray).

[Texas Chuck]

Jokic is the best contract in the league

Sent from my SM-A156U using RealGM mobile app

[jalengreen]

Luka officially ineligible for All-NBA, feels like first team is gonna be Shai/Tatum/Wemby/Giannis/Jokic. Team record argument could hurt Wemby but not really sure who I'd put in his place

[LukaTheGOAT]

Luka officially ineligible for All-NBA, feels like first team is gonna be Shai/Tatum/Wemby/Giannis/Jokic. Team record argument could hurt Wemby but not really sure who I'd put in his place

Just leave the All-NBA spot empty in remembrance of Luka's 1st Team All-NBA streak.

Seriously, though, Wemby deserves it.

[eminence]

I imagine some Cavs player will wind up as a serious threat if they keep up a 65 win pace.

[Texas Chuck]

I imagine some Cavs player will wind up as a serious threat if they keep up a 65 win pace.

Isn't the win pace over 70 now?

Also, I think their issue is Mitchell is the name but Garland/Mobley are arguably driving more of this success. I think they get squeezed out.

But its always good to get some new blood. Not sure Luka's deserved all of those, but he's basically just been written in every year.

[ShaqAttac]

bron and ad been choking too much. LA on fire but still. idk why nba and nfl making us play games rn

[IlikeSHAIguys]

I feel like Shai winning MVP is on the line next game. Also where did the OKC thread go?

[itsxtray]

I feel like Shai winning MVP is on the line next game.

It's not close enough to the end of the season for that.

[OhayoKD]

As a Brooklyn Nets fans. I'm very upset about this blowout loss.

[AEnigma]

I feel like Shai winning MVP is on the line next game.

It's not close enough to the end of the season for that.

Yep, Jokic and Shai play a back-to-back in Oklahoma City in March, and then Shai immediately heads to Boston after that. Those are the games which will be at the front of voters’ minds.

Now, does it help Shai to be able to say he split with the Cavaliers despite not having Chet? Sure. But it is not completely essential.