2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

[MyUniBroDavis]

2021 is wild. I just read someone seriously argue that Mike Conley is playing at MVP level.

Christian wood is playoff AD with better hair

[Peregrine01]

Jokic looking like the front-runner for MVP. He's playing with more aggression that he ever has...they played the Heat today and Bam had no answer for him. Nuggets seem to be cruising now after a rough start.

[HeartBreakKid]

Whats the deal with the Heat so far?

[freethedevil]

Jokic looking like the front-runner for MVP. He's playing with more aggression that he ever has...they played the Heat today and Bam had no answer for him. Nuggets seem to be cruising now after a rough start.

if mvp was offense only...

[bondom34]

Whats the deal with the Heat so far?

Missing half the roster from covid lol. At least some games, Gabe Vincent has been starting.

Herro hasn't played in a while. Butler the same. Not sure how long exactly but they've been injured and hit by that I think.

Edit:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2021.html

Dragic played 5 games, Butler 6, Herro 10.

[bondom34]

I keep expecting OKC to lose, and they keep not losing.

[Peregrine01]

Jokic looking like the front-runner for MVP. He's playing with more aggression that he ever has...they played the Heat today and Bam had no answer for him. Nuggets seem to be cruising now after a rough start.

if mvp was offense only...

I think Jokic has been the most impactful player in the league so far.

[ShotCreator]

And you keep misunderstanding my point of view. And you micro analyze NBA possessions from reading data. That’s impossible.

The nuances of what happens on the court can’t be captured by just what shots are taken and made.

Conley could clap and dance every time someone takes a shot, and if that helped, if it actually had a benefit, +/- would show it.

Conley getting the ball to guys in rhythm and knowing how to maximize his teammates every nuance at a time won’t be captured by you, but it will be by plus minus. Which is why I’d be wise to ignore conjecture over actual data.

My conjecture, really isn’t conjecture, it’s as close to actual fact as I could have it. Which is Conley is playing really well. MVP well, I think. I can make the argument on raw data.

You can’t make a real substantive argument against it. It doesn’t exist.

Mike conley isn't anwyhere close to mvp if you adjust for lineups. The "data" is worthless if its only team data lmao. PIPM has him at +2 LEBRON has him at +1.

Gobert on the other hand is +4.9. Think its safe to say the role player's +/- is a result of playing next to the best rs defender in the league, not him magically becoming an mvp lmao

You do understand Gobert has never had splits like this right? So giving him all the credit isn’t basing it on anything but conjecture and your feeling.

And can you link PIPM?


And you saying team level data is worthless, is worthless. You don’t agree, that’s your argument?


And you’re using a box score metric against a plus minus based argument.


RAPTOR is the closest metric we have to something purely PBP based.

I’d go with PI RAPM over any of these.

If you are gonna fundamentally fail to understand what I believe you aren’t worth replying to.

[ShotCreator]

And saying Conley becoming MVP level would be magic is literally like saying Utah becoming a contender is like magic.

The lack of logic in that idea is exactly why I’m mostly sure Conley is playing out of his mind.

[freethedevil]

And you keep misunderstanding my point of view. And you micro analyze NBA possessions from reading data. That’s impossible.

The nuances of what happens on the court can’t be captured by just what shots are taken and made.

Conley could clap and dance every time someone takes a shot, and if that helped, if it actually had a benefit, +/- would show it.

Conley getting the ball to guys in rhythm and knowing how to maximize his teammates every nuance at a time won’t be captured by you, but it will be by plus minus. Which is why I’d be wise to ignore conjecture over actual data.

My conjecture, really isn’t conjecture, it’s as close to actual fact as I could have it. Which is Conley is playing really well. MVP well, I think. I can make the argument on raw data.

You can’t make a real substantive argument against it. It doesn’t exist.

Mike conley isn't anwyhere close to mvp if you adjust for lineups. The "data" is worthless if its only team data lmao. PIPM has him at +2 LEBRON has him at +1.

Gobert on the other hand is +4.9. Think its safe to say the role player's +/- is a result of playing next to the best rs defender in the league, not him magically becoming an mvp lmao

You do understand Gobert has never had splits like this right? So giving him all the credit isn’t basing it on anything but conjecture and your feeling.
Conjecture? All the metrics that adjsut for lineup say gobert is way better. And i dont know what you mena by "splits", Gobert has been +4.5 or higher for the last 5 years of pipm. Conley is the one whose plus minus is shooting up,not gobert.



And can you link PIPM?
here
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EIZvj_3-9SZULWomHz54V1CPL092j70u_0vUhoEEaIk/edit#gid=1098847346


And you saying team level data is worthless, is worthless. You don’t agree, that’s your argument?
its worthless because you're using it to describe a player as opposed to a lineup. +/- measures lineups, not players, there are stats that adjust for lineups and hence can be used for players. Raw +/- is jsut a lineup stat.

And you’re using a box score metric against a plus minus based argument.
I'm using a player stat vs a lineup stat because the player stat is for players and the lineup stat is for lineups.

RAPTOR is the closest metric we have to something purely PBP based.
no its not RAPTOR has the weakest correlation with rapm of all the all the modern all in one's(save for bbreference bpm) and is the least predictive and its creator literally said he designed the stat so that it rated big menlower and two way wings higher because he felt that actual plus minus stuff overrated big men
I’d go with PI RAPM over any of these.
For single year? The reason box stuff is put in things like pipm is to stablize it, because single year apm is hella noisy. Conley suddenly being 5th one year and nowhere close to that any other year suggests heavy, heavy noise which is exactly what you would expect form single year rapm.

But hey, maybe if you should tell the wizards GM that pipm is dumb and that he should trade for conley because singl e year rapm says conley is an mvp. Let's see how that goes.
If you are gonna fundamentally fail to understand what I believe you aren’t worth replying to.

[MyUniBroDavis]

[list=][/list]

Mike conley isn't anwyhere close to mvp if you adjust for lineups. The "data" is worthless if its only team data lmao. PIPM has him at +2 LEBRON has him at +1.

Gobert on the other hand is +4.9. Think its safe to say the role player's +/- is a result of playing next to the best rs defender in the league, not him magically becoming an mvp lmao

You do understand Gobert has never had splits like this right? So giving him all the credit isn’t basing it on anything but conjecture and your feeling.
Conjecture? All the metrics that adjsut for lineup say gobert is way better. And i dont know what you mena by "splits", Gobert has been +4.5 or higher for the last 5 years of pipm. Conley is the one whose plus minus is shooting up,not gobert.



And can you link PIPM?
here
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EIZvj_3-9SZULWomHz54V1CPL092j70u_0vUhoEEaIk/edit#gid=1098847346


And you saying team level data is worthless, is worthless. You don’t agree, that’s your argument?
its worthless because you're using it to describe a player as opposed to a lineup. +/- measures lineups, not players, there are stats that adjust for lineups and hence can be used for players. Raw +/- is jsut a lineup stat.

And you’re using a box score metric against a plus minus based argument.
I'm using a player stat vs a lineup stat because the player stat is for players and the lineup stat is for lineups.

RAPTOR is the closest metric we have to something purely PBP based.
no its not RAPTOR has the weakest correlation with rapm of all the all the modern all in one's(save for bbreference bpm) and is the least predictive and its creator literally said he designed the stat so that it rated big menlower and two way wings higher because he felt that actual plus minus stuff overrated big men
I’d go with PI RAPM over any of these.
For single year? The reason box stuff is put in things like pipm is to stablize it, because single year apm is hella noisy. Conley suddenly being 5th one year and nowhere close to that any other year suggests heavy, heavy noise which is exactly what you would expect form single year rapm.

But hey, maybe if you should tell the wizards GM that pipm is dumb and that he should trade for conley because singl e year rapm says conley is an mvp. Let's see how that goes.
If you are gonna fundamentally fail to understand what I believe you aren’t worth replying to.

I would mention PI rapm needs multiple years

But I don’t get why ur seriously entertaining a debate about mike Conley

MIKE
CONLEY

Being mvp lol

We know he isn’t the mvp

Every single person on the planet knows he isn’t the mvp

Even mike Conley knows he isn’t the mvp

If anyone wants to believe mike Conley is a better defender than gobert that’s fine

Speaking of that, here’s my good friend I think you would be interested in talking too



There’s no way he isn’t meming right now

[bondom34]

Yep, this is up there in terms of ridiculous discussions I've seen. Like way up there.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Yep, this is up there in terms of ridiculous discussions I've seen. Like way up there.

What could possibly rank higher

[bondom34]

Yep, this is up there in terms of ridiculous discussions I've seen. Like way up there.

What could possibly rank higher

Only one I remember (wasn't a discussion but a comment) was a Warriors fan claiming George Hill would have led the 2017 Thunder to a better record if I recall the statement.

Won't ever really forget that one .

But tbh its this level of hot takery that kind of got me to step away from social media/forums for a few months, but decided to indulge today when I was bored at work .

[eminence]

Let's go Utah, get that 1 seed

[MyUniBroDavis]

Yep, this is up there in terms of ridiculous discussions I've seen. Like way up there.

What could possibly rank higher

Only one I remember (wasn't a discussion but a comment) was a Warriors fan claiming George Hill would have led the 2017 Thunder to a better record if I recall the statement.

Won't ever really forget that one .

But tbh its this level of hot takery that kind of got me to step away from social media/forums for a few months, but decided to indulge today when I was bored at work .

You gotta treat it as a meme lol

I mean at least that one he’s only hating on one guy, vs saying George hill is the mvp lmao

[MyUniBroDavis]

Let's go Utah, get that 1 seed

This will be good for mike conleys mvp chances. He’s only behind javale now

[eminence]

I wonder how high Gobert could finish in MVP voting if the Jazz do get a 1 seed.

[bondom34]

What could possibly rank higher

Only one I remember (wasn't a discussion but a comment) was a Warriors fan claiming George Hill would have led the 2017 Thunder to a better record if I recall the statement.

Won't ever really forget that one .

But tbh its this level of hot takery that kind of got me to step away from social media/forums for a few months, but decided to indulge today when I was bored at work .

You gotta treat it as a meme lol

I mean at least that one he’s only hating on one guy, vs saying George hill is the mvp lmao

I'll own I've said some off stuff too but this one's up there if its not the top lol.

Granted not nearly as crazy and it came up a while back, but from this very forum Lebron's decline was coming in like 2014. Then in 2015, and 16, and 17....and here we are.

[bondom34]

Think right now its some combo of Embiid/Jokic/Lebron at the top, not sure which Clippers star has actually been better so far though I'd lean PG I think? Then up for grabs. It won't happen but PG's MVP odds were like 80:1 which I kind of wish I'd put a few bucks on just on the small chance.

Awards feel pretty open so far, though think MIP to Jerami Grant right now feels like a clear one to me.